e-cat?
Posted on 07/27/2011 8:11:45 PM PDT by Liberty1970
Much is made about the lack of proof when trying to place Andrea Rossi’s eCat on the reality spectrum. In a scientific sense, that is oh-so-true for those without the privilege of being on the inside of things. No scientist should take anecdotal evidence as word and, since we tend to look to them for guidance, it’s no surprise that their objections are sounded loud and clear. In their business, nothing else matters but absolute, bomb-proof facts (doubly so for something labelled as ‘junk science’).
In a recent post I suggested that a scientist’s conclusion should be that there is insufficient data for a conclusion but somehow the proclamations from some sound like accusations of fraud. Lost in this argument we can forget that, in the real world, scientists are used as one tool in the mix of evidence in our justice system. People are in prisons despite scientists swearing on their behalf, certain in their belief that one thing is true instead of another. In the real world, in the absence of data good enough to result in scientific consensus, we weigh the evidence and think for ourselves. Which begs the question: For the person in the street, what is that evidence?
Against:
-It’s too-good-too-be-true
-Does not conform to ‘known’ fusion rules
-Public demos have been demos – never proof
-Most outsiders with access have restrictions imposed
-Andrea Rossi has a past open to attack
-The money involved is big-big-big
-Two people given passive access were not impressed
-Most mainstream scientists do not believe that LENR is real
-Some supporters of LENR are wary of believing
-Contradicting statements among main players
-Mainstream media is curiously silent
For:
-LENR is almost certainly real
-Prof Focardi published promising Ni-H results long before working with Andrea Rossi
-Prof Piantelli (Focardi’s former Ni-H collaborator) has similar claims
-No-one with deep access argues against the eCat
-A number of respected scientists with privileged access publicly support Rossi
-A number of non-aligned prominent scientists give qualified support
-Rossi has numerous financial backers
-Defkalion, with 200 million Euros on the table, state that their engineers have unrestricted daily access and get gains no less than 19 in tests. This means that they are not victims
-Specific and short timescale to launch
-Large output and gain is simple to measure to an accuracy that matters commercially
-Andrea Rossi will lose everything if the eCat does not do as he promises
-Professor Stremmenos, Defkalion Board member and conduit to Greek PM, is beyond reproach and in it up to his neck
-AR’s former colleagues bought the rights for the Americas (Ampenergo) – a demonstration of credibility from those who know
-Scientists at the University of Bologna (and the institution itself) are happy to be associated with eCat
-Often a stick to beat him with, Andrea Rossi’s background is also indicative of a serial entrepreneur pushing at the front edge of what is possible
-Mainstream media is not covering a 200 million Euro fraud with links to Greek government and prominent scientists
In an effort to keep eCatNews.com objective, I will not believe until proof is provided. I suggest that readers thinking about investing time and/or money do the same. However, honesty goes both ways and I have to admit that the weight of circumstantial evidence ‘against’ is weak. Most points are easy to explain away, should you wish to do so. When balancing this against the circumstantial evidence ‘for’ it appears to me that we would be foolish to bet against it being real (even as caution holds us back from investing our life savings ‘for’).
Thankfully, most of us do not have to make that call as October is near. For those wanting to take a risk, look at the evidence using the above list as a guide and decide how the scales would tilt in a court of law.
PING!
"Cold "Fusion"" that provided useful and economic power would be like a Science Fiction prediction come true. We need some new, cool technology for the new Century.
What i've done is categorized this as "Hey, eventually somebody will figure out how to TUNE the quarks inside protons and neutrons and use them to construct or deconstruct elements. So why not now as a start".
That's a far cry from using high explosives to implode an atom bomb ~ which is the Strong force. Tuning quarks has just gotta' fall into the Weak force.
At some time in the future we will get into doing more than tuning quarks.
Sounds about right, both ways, to me. And yes, October is near. Or the next month or two if it happens to take a bit longer to get things online. No big deal if there are no weasely excuses.
e-cat?
Against....
...At one point said to be opening a factory in the US that was actually a vacant lot and a low rent apartment
hasn’t given public access to the projects finances or registered his business with an independent auditor
no bills, pictures, etc.. exist of this business in Greece and the Greece address given is hundreds of miles away from the factory in a mail drop where tons of companies list their address as well.
.......
.......
...Non-Disclosure Agreements
....Contracts that prevent people that have seen details from commenting on it
...No one knows how it works, even Rossi says he doesn’t know, and only has a theory.
Rossi has been in prison before for scams and cons
...A good con has a element of truth/fact that is easily checked by the mark to gain his confidence.
Since he is so secretive, we won’t know till 100% that it is a con till he disappears with the money after someone tries to collect their investment from him for failure to delivery.
No new technology goes from the lab to commercial use without schedule slips etc..so far it has just been on PR marathon for this group that supposedly don’t need anyone because they are just going to do it.
That is lots of effort for something they claim they don’t need.
Thanks, Liberty
The Cold Fusion Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles
-It’s too-good-too-be-true
An aphorism is not evidence.
“Chemists don’t know sh*t” - The Physicists.
>>Since he is so secretive, we won’t know till 100% that it is a con till he disappears with the money after someone tries to collect their investment from him for failure to delivery.<<
Ten years ago a British friend who lives outside London contacted Rossi on my behalf, in Italy , I believe. He told him that an American friend of his wanted to invest a substantial amount of money into his experiments. Rossi shook his hand and said that he preferred to do this one himself because he was quite sure he had found the answer that everyone was looking for. My friend gave him his card and told him that if he ran low on cash to call and he would contact me to see if I was still interested. Rossi never called.
So, if I read that correctly, you are claiming that you offered Rossi $ ten years ago, and Rossi declined. That’s primary evidence if so.
Have Rossi apply for patents that cover his device so he can claim his monetary gain which is due if this is for real. Have Rossi offer up units for testing. Prior to testing he is to inform how much power it will produce. How much power is imputed to the device to keep it running, what is the net power gain, and how long will it run before needing refueling.
Give the device to the Atomic Energy Commission, The Royal Society in London and any other national or international body of science that wishes to reproduce his claims.
I am a skeptic, I hope I am wrong. If I am wrong humanity will have benefits beyond belief and Rossi will become the richest man in the history of the world. I do not think I am wrong!
The part that convinced me that he was serious, wasn’t so much that he didn’t accept my offer but that he didn’t even inquire as to the qualifying restrictions on it. It was a flat — Thank you. I appreciate your confidence in me but no thank you. I want to do this one on my own.
That told me that he didn’t have any other outside supporters and he was confident that what he was doing was in the right direction. Looking at what I see today, I don’t think he knew how it worked or why it worked but that it did work and he was probably terrified that people would learn about what he was doing too soon. He may have been afraid that someone smarter than him would steal it. I don’t know what all was going through his mind. I’m just a bit saddened that he didn’t accept my offer.
For those wanting to take a risk
***I would love to take a risk and invest in this but have limited resources & no apparent way to engage.
How I Made Money from Cold Fusion
Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:28:49 PM · by Kevmo · 28 replies · 1,013+ views
Exclusive Article for Free Republic | 1/23/10 | Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2435697/posts
>>Give the device to the Atomic Energy Commission, The Royal Society in London and any other national or international body of science that wishes to reproduce his claims.<<
Why should he do as you suggest? They are the people who would be interested in shutting him down. They don’t want their investments knocked off the shelf. This will affect nuclear, gas, coal and oil investing. All controlled by ultra powerful groups.
Keep it quiet until it works then put it out where the average citizens can test it and see what their use for it is. That would give him an army of supporters, not “limited permission” from the Elite Controllers.
...consider that STOLEN!
You could have an inside track here...
Defkalion Offers Dealerships
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2745453/posts
Thursday, July 07, 2011 11:04:52 PM · by Kevmo · 35 replies
Vortex-L ^ | July 7 2011 | Terry Blanton
It is called a come on, he only wants the ones that hit him up multiple times for the opportunity to invest.
He isn’t going to bother calling someone that only hit him up once.
Oldest Rule in the book of cons, “Look for the mark that wants to be one”
He has one patent and there are more in process. And several universities are supposed to have E-cats by now (or very soon) and are testing them - but without public reporting of results in the near term, I believe.
I am a skeptic, I hope I am wrong. If I am wrong humanity will have benefits beyond belief and Rossi will become the richest man in the history of the world. I do not think I am wrong!
You took the words out of my mouth with that paragraph.
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