Skip to comments.Nobel Physicist Invited to Test 1MW Plant (Rossi E-cat Launch)
Posted on 07/30/2011 1:44:23 PM PDT by Liberty1970
Brian Josephson, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist, asked a question on Andrea Rossis blog about the quality of the 1MW demonstration in October. He has been a defender of true research in the LENR field, frequently challenging debunkers to back up their objections with logic instead of repeating the same one-sided attacks so often a signature of pseudosceptics. In answer, Rossi invited him to the test. I am assuming that the question did come from Josephson but there is no doubt that the invite is real:
Brian Josephson July 30th, 2011 at 4:17 AM
October demo Andrea,
Youve said the 1MW E-cat due in October will be the real test, but in what way will it be more convincing than the ones done so far? Will it be done in such a way that people are sure about the amount of water/steam coming out of the reactor, and how dry the steam is (which affects the heat content)?
Andrea Rossi July 30th, 2011 at 6:11 AM
Dear Prof. Brian Josephson (Nobel Prize), First of all, thank you for your very important attention. Please read very carefully what I am writing to you: 1-The 1 MW plant that we will start up in October will be tested, on behalf of our Customer, by very, very high level world class scientists. You are in the list, so please, if you want and you can, take free the last week of October. 2- The test will be witnessed by several very, very high level world class scientific journalists 3- The E-Cats we are working with now in our factories, which will be the modules of the 1 MW plant, are producing perfectly dry steam, mostly without energy input, as you will see yourself if you will honour us with your presence. Very Warm Regards, Andrea Rossi
Done properly (and it will have to be), this public launch should provide enough proof for potential customers. At that point, and not before (no matter who calls for it) we will have some certainty about what happens next. If the launch is also attended by senior science correspondents, this is also the time we should see the story break one way or another, depending on results. As so many people have said before, proving such a beast will not be hard and the time for preparation should help arm those like Brian Josephson (assuming he accepts) to be ready to give us a definitive yes or no.
*Ping* for your Ping-list!
Josephson is a nutcase and this is an utter charade.
If this was legit, he wouldn’t need anyone’s approval other than the customer. PR is only needed to gather investment in your enterprise, if you have customer orders, you get paid upon delivery..
I hope the reactor produces more than 1 mW :-) 1 MW is what is expected...
But the real deal here is very simple. A lab experiment may produce 100W, and it's hard to notice that the experiment consumes 100W from the power outlet, or from hidden batteries, or from stored heat. However you can't hide a 1 MW input, it's just not possible. If the plant produces 1 MW, reliably and continuously and for months, then it will be the only proof that any sane person would care about, and the detractors' whining will have no effect. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Mr. Rossi might appeal to the U.N. or individual countries for due compensation upon release of his discoveries to the world.
If it really works, I hope Rossi has excellent security and body armor. I don’t wish any ill on him if it is genuine, but there are people out there that would not want to see this come to market.
One of our fellow Freepers offered Rossi $200K for investment, and he was turned down. That's one check mark in the "legit" column, if you ask me.
I won't be satisfied until they call in the very, very, very, very high level world class scientists.
Talk is cheap. Prove it.
This ECat Scat is getting old.
These people need to shut up until they put up.
lol, you don’t know have a clue how a con works.
The con artist isn’t going to take your money unless you practically make him take it. That is how it works.
these posts keep coming on Freerepublic all the time, makes me wonder if some of these posters aren’t hired by this con.
Rossie has been to Prison twice, stole millions of dollars from investors, and has been involved in one scam after another.
And you are telling me someone on Freerepublic actually tried to give this thief 200k?
I wasn't the one who tried to invest with Rossi, but I have no reason to doubt the Freeper who did. Perhaps he'll chime in on one of these threads.
Put down the shotgun, Sheriff. I’m only relaying what another Freeper told me some months back.
I had no reason to doubt him when he related his experience with Rossi. He was quite matter-of-fact about it, and seemed disappointed that Rossi turned him down.
I note your claim about Rossi’s dubious past, but I’ll reserve judgment on that until after I’ve done my own due diligence. Thanks for the link.
Shutting people up is the antithesis of scientific inquiry. Let Rossi perform his demonstration and let physicists like Dr. Josephson validate the results, that’s how it works. As he says, it’s a simple measurement and Rossi is making everything but his proprietary reactor open for inspection, and that doesn’t matter if the results can be verified.
The Wright Brothers example shows that new ideas are often not accepted even when proven, yet many of these supposedly skeptical minds were all to willing to accept global warming with very little scientific evidence.
We shall see soon enough.
If the technology is real, I think it's nearly impossible to suppress it.
First, information today is easy to distribute. He can give encrypted files to many of his friends, and put the encryption key into his will (or leave it with his lawyer, who has no encrypted data and doesn't know anyone who has.)
Second, the basic idea of his device had been recreated by scientists. The haggling is all about specific implementation that just happens to produce more power than the lab experiments. So even if no trace of his invention is left, we know in what direction to start digging, and within a year or two his device will be reinvented.
Third, this won't be necessary. There are now thousands of eCat units being worked on, and there are hundreds of workers who have full access to them (because they are building them.) The adversary will not be able to kill so many people and destroy so many pieces of machinery - and it only takes one to reveal the specific design that Rossi is protecting.
Furthermore, as soon as the first ten out of those 100 workers meet an untimely demise, it will be obvious to the rest of the team that the only way for them to survive is by disclosing the secret to the entire world, in tiniest details. Then they become worthless to assassins.
As I understand, the adversary's best plan to date is to ridicule the invention, to spread doubt, to make him a pariah. That worked with Fleischmann and Pons.
Yeah, I do. I've personally known some very good ones in my time, and the common denominator is that they all succumb to the temptation to take other people's money.
I'm only casually following developments with the E-cat, but I've read in more than a few places where people remarked that Rossi was refusing investment capital. The one Freeper I mentioned isn't alone.
That said, I'm patient enough to see who this all plays out. I've got no skin in the game.
If I had a device that produced free energy I would sell the energy and not the device. I would keep quiet about the device for two reasons:
1. It's just too dangerous. If anyone can produce unlimited amounts of free energy then anyone can also produce a very powerful bomb at no cost. A real gift for terrorists.
2. Maximum financial gain.
If I developed a breed of chickens that laid golden eggs I would sell the eggs and not the chickens. Actually I would beat the golden eggs into some other shape first so nobody suspected my source was chickens. It's hard to imagine anyone not doing it this way.
It’s not a matter of shutting people up.
The normal scientific method is to offer a hypothesis and a proof. Or, to offer a hypothesis and full-disclosure to work toward a proof.
Rossi has given a vague, pseudo-hypothesis and talk, talk, promise promise.
No average person will be happier than me to see this technology proven to work but the longer this cult-like “We’ve Done It, Trust Us” blogging spam drags out, the more annoying and unbelievable the situation becomes.
If the technology is as simple as is claimed, then there’s no credible reason not to put up or shut up.
The droning claims that he’ll be shut down or have the technology stolen if he doesn’t release the information “just right” is pure BS.
The demonstration reactor goes online in October. That has been fixed for months. Rossi has explained repeatedly why he has better things to do try to convince skeptics in the interim. But since it is such a earth-shaking claim, those of us curious about it will continue to chase every bit of evidence down in the meantime. You can just ignore us. :-)
His handle was B4Ranch. I checked his profile and he's been around about 10 years and had a decently extensive write-up of conservative belief in the profile. In other words, definitely not a throwaway ID someone made just to make a false claim on FR.
I didn't see mention of the amount offered, but I assume he's the person in question. It is a significant data point given that most skepticism centers on the notion that Rossi is doing this for money.
IMHO, money is not what makes Rossi 'tick', not from all that I know of him. I am not certain the E-cat is for real, but I'm virtually certain that the correct explanation is not that he's engaged in a financial con game. (There are other possible motives for an E-cat fraud which I won't get into here, but which are also tenuous.)
Can you show us some evidence that is how it works? This looks like a very, very lame effort on your part to deny clear evidence that Rossi is not scamming people.
I guess I don't have the ability to be a scammer, because if someone offered me money while I was running a scam, I'd take it. Sheesh.
Only the first phrase here is accurate. He didn't "steal" any money from investors. Nor has he been involved with "scams". This is not a remotely honest way to describe the Petroldragon affair. He mismanaged things, yes. The result was that investors lost money, not that it wound up in Rossi's pocket. When you handle hazardous waste you need to follow the rules, even if they strike you as unreasonable. That was his fault. And perhaps he was overconfident regarding the technology he'd developed.
But calling it a scam and claiming he stole money is just dishonest. I see fanatics on both sides (the gullible and the close-minded). But at least the gullible folks aren't engaging in vicious smears, lies and libel.
If your goal is to take money with as little strings and traceability as possible, no you don’t.
Only a dumb con would take any money randomly offered to them.
Because of the enormous work involved in researching a mark, you don’t bother with only one offer of money, you wait till you have had multiple hits from the same mark and you still refuse till you have researched the mark.
1. You have to find out who is offering you the money. Is it a cop? Is it a person likely smart enough to sniff out the con?
2. Is the person worth the trouble? How hard are they going to be to fool compared to how much money are they willing to invest?
3. Is there a huge score behind the initial money? Can you get their bank account information, etc...
As the con artist only has a small group that he can trust with this kind of research and knowledge of the con, he is going to keep the list of marks as short as possible.
I have posted tons of times, Rossi’s claimed factory being built in the US
Got the business license posted it here,
Got fresh pics of the lot being full of trees with nothing there
His business partner living in a low rent Mimi Apt.
All these links
And you guys are still suckers trying to give this guy your money.
Either you are shills or hopeless.
Anyone on Freerepublic willing to give this guy 200k better be willing to fly to Greece and see that factory and hire their own interpreter to talk to their engineers etc..
Madoff didn’t steal money from his investors either, they gave it to him.
Huh? Who's trying to give Rossi their money?
Apparently, you're so intent on defaming Rossi, that you didn't hear a word I said in my last post. Sounds like you've got an agenda to me.
As a PhD physicist I damn well know who Josephson is, and as I said, with this he has gone off the deep end.
I have been through it before elsewhere on this forum in great detail. The entire subject of cold fusion is complete and utter HS. Those who push it are ignorant frauds if not scheming scheisters and those who fall for it are dupes. I have spent enough time reviewing the claims to realize that there is no sound data supporting the claims and there is no credible theory explaining how it could all be true. The theories put forward to explain this nonsense violate almost every well-established principle of physics, but in no instance has anyone demonstrated that any of those princples can be violated with actual data or experiments demonstrating a violation. They just invoke the violation of those laws to explain a phenomenon that no one has seen - and these scheisters have not seen the phenomenon they claim to see.
I personally don't understand why JR tolerates these treads as they make an otherwise credible forum seem like a bunch of nutcases and crackpots.
At any rate, I found an extensive write-up on the Petroldragon affair. It makes Rossi out to be the victim of political persecution, not mismanagement, so I have to apologize to him if that is the case. In any event I challenge anyone to debunk the details of this report.
If Rossi were a scammer who was lying/distorting things with reports like the one above, then I would expect to see his opponents from the Petroldragon, as well as current critics, tearing his accounts to pieces. Instead I've only seen short "Rossi's a scammer because of Petroldragon" type posts with much less detail than Rossi's own account. Even Krivit's much-lauded articles make bare mention of Petroldragon and it is evident he didn't make more than a cursory investigation of it. If he is to sustain his attack on Rossi, he needs to show in much more clear detail just what he thinks Rossi did wrong at Petroldragon, taking into account Rossi's own account of events.
Maybe he's being blackmailed by his partners. Even the best scientific accomplishments don't warrant multiple posts on FR everyday.
Finally a fact in this whole cold fusion scam that comports with my personal understanding and knowledge. Before I just thought this crowd were government grant whores whining because their peers had slammed the academic grant cookier jar down on their fingers. Now I see they have been shilling their rotten wares to other hicks and boobs. The one's here deserve to be taken. They have been warned.
An agenda to expose fraud.
These guys claim to have produced enough energy to drive an aircraft carrier around the world, but the refuse to demonstrate they can light a lightbulb, or cook a steak.
The scientific community would have shut these frauds up long ago, but credulous dupes like the one's around here keep trying to keep the whole thing going. There is nothing to keep going.
what about the others?
Did you read the link, it is on the same site? What about his scam with the US Army?
Like I said, if you are willing to invest money, you better go and touch these things that he says exist and prove it to yourself
Demand that he open his books
Bank Statements and independent auditors aren’t going to cause him to reveal his secrets...
The cost of doing business is to go and fly to Greece and see all of this first hand. It isn’t going to cost you that much compared to just giving a con money without any hooks.
Take off those rose colored glasses.
The Cold Fusion Ping List
He’s a PhD Nuclear Physicist with a Nobel Prize in Nuclear Physics. Ya got one of those in yer back pocket?
So, prove that his technology is phony, and stop beating curious people over the head about their interest.
I have been through it before elsewhere on this forum in great detail. The entire subject of cold fusion is complete and utter HS.
***I’ve been through it with you and I perceive you to be full of complete and utter HS. For instance, you spread vehement invective over 100 orders of magnitude in KP Sinha’s theory, but it’s the obfuscation treatment when you are confronted with 14,000 orders of magnitude with the possibility that so many replications involved calorimetry error.
Maybe you should get a Nobel Prize of your own.
Even the best scientific accomplishments don’t warrant multiple posts on FR everyday.
***The best ones do. If this pans out, it is among the best if not THE best. It’s worth following even if it’s a fraud, because it would be a masterful fraud.
His Nobel Prize is not in nuclear physics, but you are such a fraud and charlattan that you don’t know nuclear from what you cannot find with both hands.
KP Sinhas theory is to theory what a kindergartener scribbling with crayons on a piece of paper is to art. You already admitted your lack of any familiarity or training in any physical theory relevant to the subject so you buy the whole fraud hook, line and sinker and continue to sell it.
I told you before go put all your money into this garbage. That is fine with me. I don't care. But stop trying to convine other people that you are anything but a sheister of the first order and degree.
His Nobel Prize is not in nuclear physics,
***Here’s the Wikipedia entry.
Josephson is best known for his pioneering theoretical work on superconductivity, earning him a 1/2 share of the 1973 Nobel Prize for Physics.
And, as I have said before, you are the fraud and charlatan here. You make a big deal about 100 orders of magnitude while overlooking 14000 orders of magnitude. You strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel.
But it isn't a masterful fraud because the only dupes are drooling fools like yourself.
I may lack training in the physical theory but I have read plenty of the papers at LENR-CANR.org. Someone as pedestrian as me shouldn’t be able to poke holes in your statements as well as has been demonstrated.
It is enough to question whether you really do have a PhD in Nuclear Physics.
For all your training, we don’t see your papers published that rip up these crayon scribbling theories. Sounds like an easy way to gain recognition in a difficult field, to me. Another reason to question whether you really do have a PhD in Nuclear Physics.
But stop trying to convine other people that you are anything but a sheister of the first order and degree.
***You first, mr. PhD. Get those studies published; rip them apart; make a name for yourself. I think my money would be better spent on Rossi than on you ever doing the footwork to dismantle these theories. All you have contributed to this thread is invective. That’s less than worthless as a contribution.
But it isn’t a masterful fraud because the only dupes are drooling fools like yourself.
***Should be easy to disprove, then. Go for it, Mr. PhD.
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real
Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM · by Kevmo · 52 replies
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
While you’re at it, why don’t you take on another Nobel Prize Winner in Physics who happens to be the head scientist at Langley. Is he a fraud, a charlatan? Has he gone off the deep end?
Cold Fusion #1 Claims NASA Chief (Focardi & Rossi - not cold fusion but close enough)
Sunday, June 05, 2011 11:56:09 AM · by Titus-Maximus · 52 replies
PESN ^ | June 2, 2011 | Hank Mills
LOL, Rossi’s degree is from a diploma mill in California and you are attacking someone’s credentials
OOOOHHH the irony~~
You know who Rossi is, but you don’t know who some anonymous poster on the internet is.
Why don’t you ask yer favorite credentialed internet poster why he overlooks 14000 orders of magnitude while making a big deal of 100 orders of magnitude? You’ll likely get the same crickets I get.
If someone claims to have credentials, they should use those credentials for the good of other freepers and do the footwork necessary to prove their case, rather than attack and obfuscate against other freepers. That kind of activity is enough to question an anonymous internet poster who claims to have credentials.