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Steven Krivit Report #3 on the Rossi E-Cat Published (my title)
New Energy Times ^ | July 3, 2011 | Steven Krivit

Posted on 07/31/2011 11:55:48 AM PDT by Liberty1970

(Visit link for full report - it is broken down into many sub-links. The following is from the Introduction)

Issue 37 of New Energy Times focuses entirely on the story of an Italian man, Andrea Rossi, who appears to live in Florida, and his extraordinary energy claim. His brief biography in English is here and in Italian is here. A German Web site called Eso Watch has collected a great deal of information about Rossi. Appendix 36 provides information about his criminal history in Italy.

Rossi claims to have invented a phenomenal low-energy nuclear reaction device. He claims not only that it is scientifically valid but also that its development is far enough along to be at a high technology readiness level. For many months, he has made promises that he will show proof of a 1 megawatt device in less than three months from now, on October 15.

Careful observers have noticed that Rossi is not claiming a 1 megawatt electrical device but a 1 megawatt thermal device. They have also noticed that Rossi has not specified the required input energy. Therefore, the net power of his claim is unknown.

Does Rossi’s device produce heat beyond that which is possible by chemistry? The device may produce some excess heat, but not nearly at the levels claimed by Rossi and his collaborators Sergio Focardi and Giuseppe Levi. In fact, the heat released from the experiment appears to be several orders of magnitude less than what they have claimed, at best.

Last year, Rossi and Focardi claimed an energy gain of 213 times. This year, Rossi downgraded that to six. Our analysis shows a possible energy gain of one to two times. In other words, Rossi’s device probably produces Watts, not kilowatts, of power. It may, in fact, produce zero excess heat. We cannot know with confidence because of the poor data collection and reporting.

The validity, or lack of validity, of Rossi's claim has not been easy for the lay public and even some scientific observers to assess.

For example, even an expert in advanced technology told me that he was not able to make a clear, initial decision about Rossi's claim.

That expert is Tony Tether. Few people have seen as many new, strange and innovative ideas as he has. He is the president of the Sequoia Group, a consulting firm, and he served as director of the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency from June 18, 2001, until February 20, 2009.

"If it is a hoax, it is a damn good one," Tether said.

For 10 years, I have been seeking and reporting the facts about low-energy nuclear reactions specifically, and leading-edge nuclear power in general. I look for both technological solutions and evidence of pre-technology scientific progress. I have often found inspiring evidence of good science. On occasion, however, I also find evidence that claims do not hold up. Because I am not a representative of or publicist for the niche field of LENR, but rather a specialist investigator, I report the news that I find, good and bad.

I have tracked Rossi's story for about a year. Francesco Celani, a nuclear physicist with the Italian National Institute of Nuclear Physics, was the first person to tip me off to it.

Celani has been researching LENR for 22 years. He is also one of the few LENR researchers who have performed experiments with nickel and hydrogen. Most LENR researchers have focused more narrowly during this time and worked only on palladium-deuterium experiments. They followed in the footsteps of Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, who claimed primarily to achieve fusion in a desktop experiment and secondarily to have discovered a previously unknown nuclear process.

Ni-H LENR research — and any eventual Ni-H LENR technology — is potentially far more practical than Pd/D LENR experiments because palladium is a precious metal and deuterium is costly, as well.

But very few researchers ventured into the Ni-H realm in the last two decades. One of the main reasons for their narrow interest in Pd/D systems was that this was simply the popular route within the field. The underlying basis for this popularity came from a common belief held by many researchers in the field that LENR processes were dominated by a deuterium-deuterium fusion reaction.

LENR researcher Pamela Mosier-Boss of the U.S. Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center in San Diego wrote to me in September 2010 and explained her perspective.

"I simply believe our data shows that hot fusion is actually occurring inside the lattice," Mosier-Boss wrote.

Beliefs aside, however, the data stacked up against the theory of “cold fusion”. Interestingly, that same data definitively supported the idea of some other, perhaps unknown, nuclear processes using weak interactions. Lewis Larsen was the first person to come up with a potentially viable theory along these lines. Other theoreticians — for example, Akito Takahashi, a longtime “cold fusion" theorist — have recently explored the idea of weak interactions as part of a possible explanation for LENR.

But Ni-H LENR work has been explored nearly as long as Pd/D LENR work. Some of the best research to come out of the Ni-H line was that of biophysicist Francesco Piantelli, retired from the University of Siena. I have told his story here, in articles #12 and #13.

The Internet media buzz that Rossi developed was enough to cause many longtime Pd/D researchers to open their minds to Ni-H LENR work — but not without giving up their fantasies of deuterium-deuterium cold fusion. Some of them suggested that, in Ni-H LENR work, hydrogen nuclei were overcoming the Coulomb barrier of a nearby nickel nucleus. Other people suggested that neutrons, which are not affected by the Coulomb barrier, were captured by a nearby nickel nucleus and that, in their view, neutron capture was the new fusion.

Even though Celani tipped me off to Rossi's extraordinary claims a year ago, I did not contact Rossi until January, until after he made his first public demonstration and gave a press conference. Because I have closely studied the history of “cold fusion,” I have learned the lessons of science-by-press-conference. I therefore approached the Rossi story cautiously, learning what I could from Rossi in the course of several months. His associate with the scientific credential, Sergio Focardi, a physicist retired from the University of Bologna, never returned any of my e-mail inquiries. Rossi had always given me the impression that he was technically qualified to answer and respond to most of my questions. I inferred that Rossi and Focardi had agreed that Rossi was the point of contact for the duo.

Rossi and Focardi have self-published only a single paper on their claim, and they published it on Rossi's blog. Neither of them has made any presentation at a science conference on their joint work. These are serious warning flags, and I noted them.

Eventually, Rossi gained the confidence of a technology journalist, Mats Lewan, from Ny Teknik, and two Swedish professors who came to Bologna to see Rossi's device. Following what I originally thought was the professors' independent inspection of Rossi's device and their endorsement, I took Rossi's claim more seriously. Not until a few weeks ago did I learn that Rossi paid the travel expenses for the two professors to come to Italy, check out his device, and write a trip report.

I made my own trip to see Rossi, Focardi and their associate Giuseppe Levi, a physicist with the University of Bologna, on June 14 and 15.

On June 16, I published a preliminary trip report, and on June 21, I published a slightly edited final version of my Report #1 - First Report of Interviews With E-Cat Trio.

On June 20, I published a video from my trip to Bologna in which Rossi explains his energy catalyzer.

On June 28, I published my Report #2 - Energy Catalyzer: Scientific Communication and Ethics Issues, and I told readers that my next report would review the technical matters and my concerns about the trio's claims. I realize that, in today's world of Twitter and texting, one month seems like an interminable wait for some people. Thank you for your patience. The wait is over.

The effects of the June 20 video and my early brief reports have been very interesting. When I published the video, I made not one comment about its content, let alone any kind of report or analysis. Within two weeks, 20,000 people had watched the video and more than 50 people sent me their comments and analyses of what they saw in it. Some of those commentaries went into great detail and depth. The knowledge and technical skills of the writers was self-evident.

Report 3 thus became a very unusual report because these contributors did the bulk of the scientific and technical analysis. This was not my original intention, but they beat me to the work. Most of the contributors had specific training or experience with thermodynamics. In my role as an editor, if I did not personally know the contributor, I confirmed the person’s identity and got to know the person a bit in all but one case. The New Energy Times team worked with these contributors and edited their various analyses, and these now compose the bulk of the three dozen appendices to Report 3. These appendices also contain the hard scientific and technical information on which I have based most of Report 3. More-technical readers may wish to skip my Report #3 and jump straight to the appendices.

Readers will notice that some of these contributors have made different estimates of the same parameters of the Rossi experiment. Because Rossi has not made many of these parameters public, the contributors' independent estimations reasonably could be different. Readers will also find overlap in some of the topics covered by the contributors in the appendices. The New Energy Times team has done its best to reduce the overlap, but because all contributions were offered to us independently and without a coordinated effort, avoiding overlap was not entirely possible. As much as possible, we have sequenced the appendices logically.

I am working on the final editing of the three hours of videotaped interviews I made with Rossi, Focardi, Levi, University of Bologna physicist David Bianchini and blogger Daniele Passerini. I will send out another announcement when the videos are ready.

I have set up a dedicated Web page, "Andrea Rossi and His Energy-Catalyzer (E-Cat)," that will list all of the New Energy Times reports as well as other related information. I expect to write one follow-up report on the Rossi story in which I will provide more information about my journalistic process in this story. I intend to comment on my experience with the key sources of this story and offer some reflections. I also intend to note some of my observations about the response I have seen from people involved in the LENR research field. Beyond that, I will not be following the Rossi story in any detail until and unless he and/or his associates make an appropriate scientific communication or deliver a publicly available energy device for sale.

Several experts in the nuclear fission industry, who work with steam day in and day out, followed this story with interest and have contributed their knowledge and experience to this investigation. I appreciate their interest.

Nuclear fission experts, as a group, were never strongly opposed to low-energy nuclear reaction research. These experts are primarily nuclear engineers working in industry. They have delivered real, practical nuclear energy for half a century. They are not to be confused with thermonuclear fusion academics, who have yet to develop a practical reactor after 60 years of research and development.

Twenty-two years ago, these fusion researchers, for perhaps a variety of reasons, interfered with and delayed the progress of low-energy nuclear reaction research.

I am deeply grateful to all the contributors to this report. Many people offered contributions that we did not end up including because of the overwhelming amount of material we received. Four technical volunteers reviewed most of the appendices as well as the main report. Their generous efforts to make this project technically accurate were tremendous, and their volunteer service benefits every reader. Any remaining errors, of course, are my responsibility alone.

More than anybody, and with few exceptions, the researchers in the LENR field are most directly affected by this story. They have made the greatest contributions to this report, and I thank them for having the courage to speak their minds.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Miscellaneous; Science; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: canr; cmns; coldfusion; defkalion; ecat; krivit; lenr; rossi
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A lot of good stuff here from what I've seen so far.
1 posted on 07/31/2011 11:55:54 AM PDT by Liberty1970
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To: Liberty1970

So far, what I’ve been seeing runs uncomfortably close to my prognostications in my (unpublished) ‘How the E-Cat Could Be a Scam’ essay that I wrote for personal reflection. Here’s my conclusion, which seems to dovetail with Krivit’s report (at least to some degree - some of Krivits video suggests the ‘hidden power source’ could be in plain sight):

CONCLUSION

The E-cat could be a fraud, but this conclusion is tenuous. It involves the power output being greatly exaggerated, based on a hidden power source within the device, with all knowledgeable personnel involved with the production, operation and monitoring of the E-cat being part of the scam. Anyone at Defkalion ostensibly involved in R&D development and testing of the E-cat would also have to know it is a scam.

Many of the public claims regarding the E-cat (such as the 2 years operation of one at Rossi’s plant in Italy, the claim of 94 E-cats operating already, and the claim of E-cats being provided to the Greek authorities and Universities of Uppsala and Bologna) must all be quite false, despite no one claiming publicly to know anything to the contrary.

The scammers have not only developed a very clever and robust E-cat scam device and made multiple copies of it, they have also fooled a number of close associates who in some cases have worked on LENR or associated with Rossi for years. Rossi, if he is a scammer, is scamming his friends and associates first and foremost. Each one of these friends and associates - including Drs. Piantelli, Focardi,

Stremmenos, the rest of the Defkalion board, the Ampenergo board, and the employees of AmpEnergo and Defkalion generally, must ALL have failed to sufficiently investigate the E-cat not just before getting involved, but since then as well. Not one of them have voiced anything less than full support for the E-cat.

Moreover, Piantelli’s announcement of a competing company would require that he is leading a sort of piggy-back fraud of his own, to capitalize on Rossi before the primary scheme collapses. But with Rossi and company doggedly sticking to their scheduled 1 mW reactor operation in the last week of October, time is running out.


2 posted on 07/31/2011 12:02:57 PM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970; Kevmo

*Ping* for your list. I’d ping Mr. Krivit too, if I could recall his exact FReepername...


3 posted on 07/31/2011 12:03:56 PM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970
Seems like “alchemy” and the search for the “philosopher's stone”.

One thing I have learned is that if something looks "too good to be true" it very often is...

Regards,
GtG

4 posted on 07/31/2011 12:50:34 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: Liberty1970
Then there's the case of Bernie Madoff. NASDAQ introduced him to the world although he made his first fortune as a penny stock trader, and moved on from there to working for friends, family and members of whatever synagogue he happened to attend that week.

Eventually he gravitated into scamming Jewish burial societies, Leftwing nonprofit organizations ~ usually those that had benefited greatly from Jewish bequests, and on and on. He ripped off all his friends except those few he benefited.

There were billions of dollars in the Madoff scam.

So far the E-Cat operation ain't no thang ~ if it's a scam ~ and if it's not it will make the world quite rich.

5 posted on 07/31/2011 1:04:20 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SpaceBar

Ping!


6 posted on 07/31/2011 1:14:25 PM PDT by cartan
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To: Liberty1970

“Last year, Rossi and Focardi claimed an energy gain of 213 times. This year, Rossi downgraded that to six. Our analysis shows a possible energy gain of one to two times. In other words, Rossi’s device probably produces Watts, not kilowatts, of power. It may, in fact, produce zero excess heat. We cannot know with confidence because of the poor data collection and reporting.”

This indicates that the fundamentals of the effect this device is based on is not understood sufficiently to optimize it. Rossi is still operating in the region of chance and accident, much like early developers of internal combustion engines or batteries did.


7 posted on 07/31/2011 1:17:19 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: Liberty1970
Rossi and company doggedly sticking to their scheduled 1 mW reactor operation

Yeah, a 1 milliwatt reactor sounds about right. That's 12 orders of magnitude less than the 1 megawatt claims I've seen elsewhere. (People who don't know the difference between m and M, in this case mW and MW, pi$$ me off, so I make fun of them.)

8 posted on 07/31/2011 2:57:22 PM PDT by Moltke (Always retaliate first.)
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To: Moltke

My apologies, yes, I did screw that up. Let’s hope he manages the MW output, not mW. ;-)


9 posted on 07/31/2011 5:16:14 PM PDT by Liberty1970 (For by grace are you saved through faith.)
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To: Liberty1970; dangerdoc; citizen; Lancey Howard; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; ...

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles


10 posted on 07/31/2011 5:27:59 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: Kevmo

Thanks....bttt


11 posted on 07/31/2011 6:19:26 PM PDT by citizen (Romney/Christie or Rubio!! Either would be great. Bachmann fading...No more Dick Obama in 2012!)
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To: Liberty1970

>>Stremmenos, the rest of the Defkalion board, the Ampenergo board, and the employees of AmpEnergo and Defkalion generally, must ALL have failed to sufficiently investigate the E-cat not just before getting involved, but since then as well.<<

You have forgotten to mention that the fools at NASA are wanting to partner with Rossi to build rockets.


12 posted on 07/31/2011 7:11:41 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Allowing Islam into America is akin to injecting yourself with AIDS to prove how tolerant you are..)
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To: Liberty1970

Here’s the bottom line: if he can continuously generate enough heat for steam to generate electricity at the cost of coal or cheaper without harmful emissions or radiation, he’s golden. That’s all he has to do.


13 posted on 07/31/2011 7:50:20 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (Obama's hoping that we'll have nothing but chump change left when he's done.)
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To: Liberty1970


Here's what Jed Rothwell has to say.

http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49725.html


Re: [Vo]:Fw: New Energy Times #37 and Rossi Report #3
Jed Rothwell
Sun, 31 Jul 2011 09:54:10 -0700

Robert Leguillon wrote:

I must ask, Jed... What is your take on this?
>
> Specifically, the NASA calculations:
> http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/3714appendixelectriconly.shtml
>

This begins with the statement "Assume that the heat exchanger resistance
heater is 100% efficient." That is reasonable. What is not reasonable is to
assume that the entire 770 W will transfer to the water and nowhere else.
The eCat metal and body will get hot. The hose will get hot. With the well
insulated electric teapot I have tested (Krups), you transfer about half or
2/3rds of the heat to the water. I doubt that even 500 W reach the water.

That's ~500 J/s. The flow rate is 2 g/s which takes 180 J to bring to boil,
leaving 320 J, which is enough to boil about half the water. The other half
would have to overflow unboiled. For the reasons given by Storms and me I
think this is unlikely.

However, as I have said repeatedly, the demonstration observed by Krivit
proved nothing. That is why I turned down an invitation from Rossi to see a
similar demonstration. I knew what he was planning to show, and I knew that
seeing it would not convince me of anything, so I did not go. I think it is
a waste of time to devote so much attention to a demonstration of this
nature. You cannot draw a valid conclusion no matter how much detailed
mathematics you apply.

It would not be difficult to arrange a more convincing steam tests, but when
I suggested to Rossi that we do this, he turned me down. As I have reported
here, he said he did not have time for that. Make of that what you will. I
will not speculate about that, nor will I speculate about why Krivit
accepted his invitation, or whether Krivit knew in advance what the
demonstration would consist of. I will say that anyone who knows what was
planned should have realized that it would be unconvincing. Why bother
making such a fuss about it?

The demonstration Krivit observed was NOT a test, as I have said repeatedly.
Rossi told me in advance explicitly that it would not be a test. Those were
his very words! He says "no more tests until October." (I have no idea what
he told Krivit.) Anyone watching it can see it is not a test. They did not
even show whether the water reservoir is placed on the weight scale! It was
a trade-show style demo to show the general principles -- to give you an
idea of how the thing works -- without any real quantitative data or
instrumentation.

The Krivit demonstration resembles the charts and projections and "future
generator" graphics shown by the plasma fusion researchers at Congressional
budget sessions. People who understand the technical issues can see they
have no means of overcoming technical difficulties such as neutrons
destroying the reactor walls. They are saying "give us another $100 billion
and we may find a way to solve these problems." That is classic Dog and Pony
show vaporware. Taken as such, these presentation are okay. They are not
intended to be scientific presentations. Neither was the demonstration
Krivit saw. It was a lot more convincing than the plasma fusion
Congressional presentations, but neither qualifies as a scientific
presentation, and treating them as such, and subjecting them to a serious
analysis, is a waste of time.


The demonstration gave at best a qualitative sense of what may be going on.
Not quantitative. As it happens, yesterday I had occasion to borrow a 1.3 kW
steam cleaner to try and clean the mildew damage in the grouting in my
bathroom. (It did not work.) Anyway, I can report that the flow of steam
from 1.3 kW with a short hose is less dramatic, and the plume is shorter,
than the plume shown in the Lewan and Krivit videos. This was
small orifice but anyway, you can hardly see the condensing steam, even
against a black background. If the power of that machine had been reduced to
750 W and hose made as long as the one Rossi uses I doubt any steam would
have reached the end. That does not prove anything, but there it is.
....
--- Jed

14 posted on 07/31/2011 9:46:03 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: All; y'all; et al
Jed also said this in the next post.

Re: [Vo]:Fw: New Energy Times #37 and Rossi Report #3
Jed Rothwell Sun, 31 Jul 2011 10:06:53 -0700
I wrote:


> The demonstration Krivit observed was NOT a test, as I have said
> repeatedly. Rossi told me in advance explicitly that it would not be a test.
> Those were his very words! He says "no more tests until October."
>

In some of the of the earlier tests they did make sure the reservoir was on
the weight scale, and they did measure the steam quality and do more careful
temperature measurements, so these were valid tests. The 18-hour test with
flowing water was completely valid, and the results were compelling, unless
you think Levi et al. are lying. I think that is highly unlikely, and I also
think it is unlikely that Rossi fooled them.

The distinction between a test and a demonstration is somewhat
indeterminate. It is matter of opinion. In my opinion, the January events
were closer to the "test" end of the scale. What Krivit saw was far to the
"demonstration" side. Much too far for my taste.

- Jed
15 posted on 07/31/2011 9:48:59 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: All; y'all; et al


http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/krivits-third-report-e-cat-not-demonstrated-to-work-as-claimed/

July 30, 2011
tags: andrea rossi, e-cat, new energy times
by Ivy Matt
Steven Krivit, editor of New Energy Times, has released his third report on Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat, and the report is every bit as long as he had claimed. The report is largely critical of the claims made for the energy catalyzer, and of the way Andrea Rossi, Sergio Focardi, and Giuseppe Levi have attempted to establish those claims. Although most of the criticisms have been made elsewhere, Krivit has helpfully (for those critical of Rossi’s claims, at least) provided a clearinghouse for them.
Krivit’s report includes 37 appendices, but the essence of his criticism is contained in his main report:
The first concern is a question of the quantity of the steam. That is, how much steam has been visually observed coming out of the experiments? How does this amount and rate compare with the predicted amount and rate of steam from a 5 kilowatt power source?
The second concern is the method the Rossi group used to measure (or fail to measure) the output of the experiment. How did the group perform the measurement of the heat outflow, or steam, in the experiments?
The third concern is the quality of the steam. A higher-quality (or drier) steam output contains far more heat than a lower-quality (or wetter) steam. How did the Rossi group measure (or fail to measure) the quality of the steam coming out of the experiments?
None of these concerns is likely to be resolved before the demonstration in the last week of October (according to Rossi’s current timeline), and it is questionable if Rossi’s demonstration will directly answer those concerns, or if it will leave them for buyers of E-Cat technology to answer to their satisfaction. In an answer to a question by Prof. Brian Josephson concerning that matter on his website, Rossi emphasized that many important scientists and journalists would attend the test, and insisted that the E-Cat is producing perfectly dry steam in recent tests, but did not answer Prof. Josephson’s point about measuring the water and/or steam output of the reactor.
There seems to be a general agreement among both optimists and skeptics of a technical bent that this is an important weakness of Rossi’s demonstrations so far. One section of Krivit’s report concerns a presentation Francesco Celani delivered at the 16th International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science (ICCF-16) in Chennai, India, in February of this year. A diagram in this presentation pointed out the importance, when testing a black box (i.e. a device the internals of which are unknown), of measuring all inputs and outputs. In Rossi’s demonstrations, on the other hand, he measured the inputs (water and electrical power) and presumed to measure the temperature inside the black box itself (unnecessary when one is attempting to demonstrate simply that the black box functions), but failed to measure the output (steam and/or water).
The arguments supporting Krivit’s claim that the E-Cat achieves an energy gain of only one or two times input power are contained in the appendices to the main report. Krivit does not deny the possibility of achieving excess heat from nickel-hydrogen reactions and emphasizes that he has covered the field on various occasions before. His criticism here is of Andrea Rossi and his collaborators. He does not directly accuse Rossi of devising a hoax or a scam, but he mentions several ways (private investment, purchase of franchises from Defkalion) in which money has presumably already changed hands, and therefore a scam is possible, whether or not it is probable. Regarding the charge, made more or less openly by both Andrea Rossi and Daniele Passerini (link is in Italian), that Krivit is in cahoots with Francesco Piantelli, Krivit does not address it directly, but says in his report: “I have not seen Piantelli for a few years, but I have been in touch with him recently to confirm the history of his research.”
Perhaps most interesting, because it’s news, is the last section of Krivit’s report, which confirms Rossi’s meeting with members of NASA’s Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama, and identifies Michael A. Nelson as the man who arranged the meeting. According to Nelson, as reported by Krivit, Rossi made no demonstration and no agreement had yet been made between Rossi and NASA, but NASA is interested in testing Rossi’s device as long as the government doesn’t have to foot the bill. Nelson is eager to find out the truth about Rossi’s device, whatever it may be. These words from him are worth quoting here:
Rossi has brought a lot of attention to the field. Any researchers who have a legitimate claim are going to benefit from this.
Whatever else he may be, it appears Andrea Rossi is a catalyst of sorts.
************************************************************ Related posts:


16 posted on 07/31/2011 11:09:35 PM PDT by Kevmo (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn't make any sense at all. ~Ronald Reagan)
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To: muawiyah
[…]and if it’s not it will make the world quite rich.
I strongly doubt that politicians would ever allow electricity prices to go down. They would claim a pressing need to save the planet and raise electricity taxes just enough to eat up all savings we would otherwise make. And then some.
17 posted on 08/01/2011 7:08:49 AM PDT by cartan
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To: cartan

Still, politicians did step aside and let coal replace firewood ~ and talk about a price drop ~ WOW.


18 posted on 08/01/2011 7:19:25 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah

But that was before Western governments have been taken over by socialists who are determined to destroy all wealth until we have achieved equality with Somalia, and global social justice will be a reality, at last.


19 posted on 08/01/2011 7:42:41 AM PDT by cartan
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To: cartan

Not to worry. The socialists will be led off their primrose path with the promise of the taxes some slick Tax Dude is figuring out probably can be applied to E-Cat. Those taxes will be applicable even before Rossi can fire up his device in October.


20 posted on 08/01/2011 7:47:09 AM PDT by muawiyah
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