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U. S. AND BRITAIN WARN JAPAN ON THAILAND; GERMANS REPORT REDSí LOSSES NEAR 4,000,000 (8/7/41)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 8/7/41 | Frank L. Kluckhohn, Otto D. Tolischus, C. Brooks Peters, Daniel T. Brigham, Cyrus L. Sulzberger

Posted on 08/07/2011 6:30:25 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread
1 posted on 08/07/2011 6:30:31 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
German Invasion of Russia – Operations, 22 June-25 August 1941
The Mediterranean Basin
The Far East and the Pacific, 1941 – The Imperial Powers, 1 September 1939
2 posted on 08/07/2011 6:31:37 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Kuroshima is Capt. Kameto Kuroshima, Yamamoto’s senior staff officer. - Homer

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Gordon W. Prange, At Dawn We Slept

3 posted on 08/07/2011 6:33:57 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Map 19 is the one atop my profile - Homer.

Persuaded that his strategy was unfeasible for the moment, Hitler issued a new directive on July 30 which cancelled the previous directives.

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The West Point Military History Series, Thomas E. Griess, Editor, The Second World War: Europe and the Mediterranean

4 posted on 08/07/2011 6:37:10 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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Winston S. Churchill, The Grand Alliance

5 posted on 08/07/2011 6:38:33 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; GRRRRR; 2banana; henkster; ...
Hull and Eden Act – 2
New Thai Reports Anger Japanese – 2-3
Officials Deny Cement for Canal is from Japan – 3
The International Situation – 3
Nazis Depict Havoc – 4-5
Nazis’ Failure to Exploit ‘Smolensk Break’ Puzzling – 6
Russians Report Repulse of Nazis – 6-7
Japan Has Lost War, Dean Meyer Asserts – 7
Reich Peace Drive Pushed in Turkey (by Ray Brock) – 8-9
Berlin and Moscow Supply Angles on the War (photos) – 8
Japanese Seek Indo-China Land for Cotton, Cereals, Rice, Rubber – 9-10
Roosevelt Yacht Sends a Message – 10
British Tanks, 1941 Model (photo) – 10
New Phase in Russia? (by Hanson W. Baldwin) – 11
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on Fighting in Various Zones – 12-13
Hitler’s War Bulletins Recall Propaganda Credo – 13
British Execute Two Nazi Spies – 13
Patrols at Tobruk Seize German Post – 13
6 posted on 08/07/2011 6:40:21 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1941/aug41/f07aug41.htm

Soviets bombers strike Berlin

Thursday, August 7, 1941 www.onwar.com

On the Eastern Front... A small force of Soviet bombers raid Berlin. Berlin is bombed on six more occasions by the Soviets this month.

In Washington... The Senate passes an extension of the draft period from one year to thirty months (and a similar increase for service in the National Guard) after considerable debate.


7 posted on 08/07/2011 6:46:18 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/andrew.etherington/month/thismonth/07.htm

August 7th, 1941

UNITED KINGDOM: Light cruiser HMS Uganda launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

The 4th Escort Group, based at Greenock in Scotland, leaves port to join part of the convoy ONS.4 at sea, proceeding to Iceland. (Debbie Laws)

GERMANY: U-524, U-628 laid down.

U-582 commissioned. (Dave Shirlaw)

FINLAND: Soviet 168th and parts of 115th divisions are encircled in a large motti around Sortavala (Serdobol) on the north-western shore of Lake Ladoga by the Finnish II Corps. At this point Mannerheim decides to form a new I Corps (2nd, 7th and 9th divisions) commanded by Colonel Einar Mäkinen whose assignment is to destroy the enemy troops in the motti. The only way out for the Russians is Lake Ladoga, and they soon start evacuating their troops out by the lake. (Mikko Härmeinen)

ESTONIA: Tallinn, the capitol, was surrounded today when German forces reached the sea near Kunda. (Rainer Korsen)

U.S.S.R.: Moscow: Stalin appoints himself Commander-in-Chief of the army.

MEDITERRANEAN SEA: Off GIBRALTAR: The British destroyer HMS Severn sinks the Italian submarine Michele Bianchi.

AUSTRALIA: Minesweepers HMAS Castlemaine, Kalgoorlie launched. (Dave Shirlaw)

NEWFOUNDLAND: The USN heavy cruiser USS Augusta (CA-31) arrives in Placentia Bay, Argentia, Newfoundland, with US President Franklin D Roosevelt. The President spends the day fishing from the forecastle and inspecting the US Naval base while awaiting the arrival of British Prime Minister Winston Churchill. (Jack McKillop)

U.S.A.: The motion picture “Here Comes Mr. Jordan” opens at the Radio City Music Hall in New York City. This romantic fantasy comedy based on Harry Segall’s play “Heaven Can Wait” is directed by Alexander Hall and stars Robert Montgomery, Evelyn Keyes, Claude Rains, Rita Johnson, Edward
Everett Horton and James Gleason; Lloyd Bridges appears in an uncredited role. The plot has a boxer (Montgomery) dying in a plane crash and being cremated. The problem is that he was not scheduled to die for another 50-years. Because of this heavenly mistake, he is returned to earth in the body of a unworthy, wealthy man who was just murdered by his wife. The film is nominated for seven Academy Awards including Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor (Montgomery) and Best Supporting Actor (Gleason); it wins two writing awards. (Jack McKillop)

Television station WNBT, Channel 4 in New York City, broadcasts the first audience-participation show. Studio guests play charades as part of the fun. (Jack McKillop)


8 posted on 08/07/2011 6:48:32 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

intersting item there about the Nazi peace initiative. what do you make of that? sincere? first i had heard that they may have offered a comprehensive end to the war.


9 posted on 08/07/2011 7:33:47 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

"These young women were members of a small but important Resistance movement that existed within the occupied territories of the Soviet Union.
Comprised of Soviet Army officers and political commissars whose units had disbanded--as well as Jews who had escaped the marauding Einsatzgruppen--partisan groups worked tirelessly to harass the German Army.
Most Resistance groups operated in the forests and other remote areas of the Soviet Union."


"Partisans with the 26th Division from Baku, Russia, prepare to execute two captured German policemen.
After Germany invaded the Soviet Union, Joseph Stalin established partisan units to harass the German Army that remained in Soviet territory.
The partisans were not kind to prisoners of war, and summary executions--like the one in this photo--were not uncommon."

More on Soviet partisan units:

"The program of the partisan war was outlined in the Soviet People's Commissaries Council and Communist Party[1] directives issued on July 29, 1941 and in following documents.
Partisan detachments and diversionist groups were to be formed on the German-occupied territories, road and telecommunications disrupted, German personnel killed, and valuable resources destroyed.
Stalin, in his radio speech on August 3, 1941, reiterated these commands and directives to the people.
Hitler, when referring to that speech on August 16, pointed out that the declared partisan war in the German rear had its advantages, providing the excuse for destroying "anything that opposes the Germans".

"The first partisan detachments, consisting of Red Army personnel and local people, and commanded by Red Army officers or local Communist Party activists, were formed in the first days of the war, including the Starasyel'ski detachment of Major Dorodnykh in the Zhabinka district (June 23, 1941)[2], the Pinsk detachment of Vasily Korzh on June 26, 1941[3].
The first awards of the Hero of the Soviet Union order occurred on August 6, 1941 (detachment commanders Pavlovskiy and Bumazhkov)."


"Partisans, strike the enemy without mercy"

"Soviet partisan movement activities overview 1941-1944"

"Legend (upper-left and upper-right) translation:


10 posted on 08/07/2011 8:22:21 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: beebuster2000
beebuster2000:"intersting item there about the Nazi peace initiative. what do you make of that? sincere?
first i had heard that they may have offered a comprehensive end to the war."

From the beginning of the war in 1939, the Nazis had offered to stop the war, even including some pull-back from current positions, but always with Germany keeping most of what it had conquered.

At one point (early 1940), some German generals (i.e., Ludwig Beck) had even offered to overthrow Hitler, in exchange for peace and Germany keeping most of it's gains.

The British rejected all such offers, insisting that not only must Hitler be overthrown, but Germany must withdraw from all conquered territories.

In February 1943, with Churchill at Casablanca, President Roosevelt ended all possibility of a negotiated peace by setting his terms as "Unconditional Surrender".

11 posted on 08/07/2011 8:42:55 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

the article seems to say that they were offering to withdraw from pretty much everything, including poland. i guess at that point though hitler didnt have what you might call “credibility” to say the least.

the other thing that continues to blow my mind is how the japanese were so far along on the perl harbor attack planning, while the US was so oblivious.


12 posted on 08/07/2011 9:22:10 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

13 posted on 08/07/2011 9:24:01 AM PDT by CougarGA7
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To: beebuster2000
beebuster2000: "the article seems to say that they were offering to withdraw from pretty much everything, including poland."

The devil, as they say, would be in the details since, for example, by this time, "Poland" in Nazi definitions would amount to territory perhaps the size of Manhattan's Central Park -- into which they would expect all the Poles to move.

Whether or not Hitler intended it seriously, by summer of 1941, no proposal which did not include the overthrow of Hitler and German withdrawal from all conquered territories, could have been seriously considered by the Western Allies.

And there would also have been the matter of German war crimes, just as in the First World War, only this time vastly more & worse.

beebuster2000: "the other thing that continues to blow my mind is how the japanese were so far along on the perl harbor attack planning, while the US was so oblivious."

Of course, I don't think President Roosevelt was in the least "oblivious."
It's obvious to me that he needed, wanted and now expected a Japanese attack to bring America into the war.

Whether FDR expected that attack to come at Pearl Harbor on December 7, of course, is still a matter for vigorous debate.
I think he at least suspected it, and shoulda', coulda' better warned Hawaii's commanders.

14 posted on 08/07/2011 9:55:43 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
Of course, I don't think President Roosevelt was in the least "oblivious."

Not so sure. it seems one failing of the US then, and even now, is that when a truly evil opponent lies right in your face you cant conceive of them actually having a secret evil plot. no, i dont think roosevelt thought the japanese would sneak attack. he probably thought they would declare war or there would be a provocation like sinking one of our vessels. one of the key lessons of the war, both pearl harbor for the US and Midway for the Japanese: prepare for what your enemy could do, not what you think they will do. that same mistake, btw, we are making with Iran today.

15 posted on 08/07/2011 10:01:29 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: beebuster2000
beebuster2000: "Not so sure. it seems one failing of the US then, and even now, is that when a truly evil opponent lies right in your face you cant conceive of them actually having a secret evil plot.
no, i dont think roosevelt thought the japanese would sneak attack."

There is no debate that FDR did send out "War Warnings" to all commanders in late November 1941.
These warnings mentioned the possibility of sudden Japanese attack in places like the Philippines and Singapore.
But there was no mention of Hawaii, nor had there been any specific warnings beyond sabotage to Hawaii's commanders.

As for background: any good history book -- including Homer's posts here -- clearly show FDR slowly tightening the screws, poking at the Japanese, and making demands on them (i.e., withdrawal from China) which he knew were impossible for Japan to meet.

What most of those books leave out are the "whys" of FDR's actions, and to learn those you have to turn to more controversial books, of which several have been frequently mentioned here.

Of course, those who wish to defend FDR's innocence vigorously attack such books, and even more their authors.
So it's still a big debate.

But I think there are a large number of data-points which when we "connect the dots", tell us that the President's inner circle and top intelligence people knew or suspected more than they let their commanders in Hawaii in on.

16 posted on 08/07/2011 10:36:16 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK

btw, speaking of what FDR knew, just got done reading “in the garden of beasts”, its the true story of the ambassador FDR sent to berlin in 1933. that guy clearly called it 5 years in advance and told fdr repeatedly that the Nazi’s were absolutely insane, fully intended to start a big war, and were killing jews. apparantly FDR was one of the few people who believed the guy.

highly reccomend the book for any WW2 history buff. well written.

bonus material: the ambasadors daugher had numerous affairs with nazi’s and communists which are all well detailed.


17 posted on 08/07/2011 10:49:06 AM PDT by beebuster2000
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To: beebuster2000

The daughter wound up as an NKVD or GRU [ I forget which] agent.


18 posted on 08/07/2011 12:35:00 PM PDT by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: beebuster2000; PzLdr
beebuster2000: "told fdr repeatedly that the Nazi’s were absolutely insane, fully intended to start a big war, and were killing jews. apparantly FDR was one of the few people who believed the guy."

On FDR's core feelings, I've read similar accounts along the following lines, but here is one I could put my hands on easily.
It comes from Robert Rosen's c2006 book, Saving the Jews, Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Holocaust, page 13-14:

"If Roosevelt had any deep-seated prejudice, it was against Germans.
His parents had summered at the stodgy Hessian spa of Bad Nauheim to treat his father's heart disease, and the young Franklin attended German schools for five summers.
His family referred to Germans as "swine."
Father and son enjoyed mocking German speech.
'Blease expectorate me on ze dwendy ninse,' Franklin jokingly wrote his father in 1897.
During his honeymoon with Eleanor in 1903, he wrote his mother that he sat as far away as he could from the German 'pigsties.'

"Like many Americans, Roosevelt had strong anti-German memories of World War I and the fight against 'the Huns'.
He kept an eye on Americans of German descent, a group not well represented among his supporters."

Another account (which I can't put my hands on right now), mentioned Roosevelt's ancestry from Holland, and sympathy for the Dutch, along with his hatred of typical German arrogance and boorishness.

In short, it is hard to imagine anyone, who could have been elected President of the United States, who felt more anti-German than Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

My own ancestry is similar to Dwight Eisenhower's -- though not related, we have the same family history of escaping violence and religious persecution in Germany for freedom in America.

These were the kinds of rocks on which anti-German feelings in America were built, 70 years ago.

19 posted on 08/08/2011 2:28:13 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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