Pentagon Considers Scrapping Traditional Military Pensions

Fox News Online ^ | 8/15/2011 | Jim Crogan

[Newbomb Turk]

A Pentagon task force is proposing the largest overhaul of the military retirement system in 50 years that will do away with a traditional pension system, opting instead for a 401(k)-style contribution program

[edpc]

If the program applied to the rest of the federal government employees, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. That, however, is very unlikely to happen.

[CharlyFord]

Messing with the military ain’t smart. That’s like a quarterback dissing the offensive line. You want those folks to like you. When they stop liking you, it can hurt!

[Rebelbase]

"You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg?

I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives!

You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline!

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"

[beelzepug]

“Do this for social security as a pilot program first.”

Pound sand. Social Security is about all I’m going to have left. My employer did away with our pension plan some years back, opting to put matching funds, up to a point, into a 401K, which has taken a giant dump no less than three times in the last ten years. Swell!

SS is not an entitlement program, much as the congress and the press want people to think. I’ve paid into it from my very first paycheck fifty years ago. I could damn sure have done better on my own and at least it would be my money, not an IOU from the general fund.

[sean327]

“I think this is a great idea. The current military retirement system is complete BS. If you serve anything short of 20 years you get nothing...zero, zilch, nada. Very few actually make it to twenty years so basically the non-retirees get nothing for their service in terms of building a retirement. They have to start from scratch in the civilian world, putting them well behind their peers.”

Wrong, every service member has the option to contribute to a Thrift Savings Plan. If they leave with nothing after serving less than 20 years it’s on them. Look, 20 years of military service is not easy on a person physicaly or mentaly. I did 22 years in the Marine Corps. I left with a bad right shoulder, bad knees, hearing loss, and back issues. I earned every damn penny I recieve in my monthly pension check, and I would do it all over again. Leave the military pension system alone. It’s not the problem.

[Jacquerie]

And allow the service branches to restrict married members to E-5 and above.

[Lysandru]

I think this is a great idea. The current military retirement system is complete BS. If you serve anything short of 20 years you get nothing...zero, zilch, nada. Very few actually make it to twenty years so basically the non-retirees get nothing for their service in terms of building a retirement. They have to start from scratch in the civilian world, putting them well behind their peers.

Under the proposed changes everyone who serves and leaves before retirement age takes with them a head start on building a retirement.

I say do it and I wish I was offered such a plan when I raised my right hand.

Back in the 1980's when I was a West Point cadet, my econ professor told us about a scheme to give every service member an IRA instead of a traditional retirement account. Based upon the assumptions of growth in "your account" as a soldier--you were getting ripped off. And besides, you aren't vested until 20 years. And if you serve 26 years as an officer, it didn't pay to stay in longer unless you made general on average because of life expectancy.

The Econ Dept. at USMA proposed this change--and a lot of colonels reportedly loved the plan and wished that they could have avoided being grandfathered. Les Aspin, then chairman of the House Armed Services Committee killed the plan in favor of cutting the assumed rate of growth of your account.

I think that this sort of idea, if well conceived, can do better for both the taxpayer and our serving men and women. So I won't throw stones until I learn the details.

[dila813]

This is actually a complement, the Military has more retired military than active military due to the cut backs in the military since 1988 and it is a large strain on the budget. If the program was a 401k plan with higher pay and employer matching, the retired would have everything they have now if not more without making it a line item in the Military’s budget.

This is a little late to fix the problem but if I was a retired ex-military, I wouldn’t want to be a line item in the Military’s budget (with a Democrat in charge).

That being said, they have to keep their promises down to every red penny to the guys that gave for this country.

They shouldn’t even consider doing this if the goal is to reduce current expenditures for retired military.

[big'ol_freeper]

RE: I think that this sort of idea, if well conceived, can do better for both the taxpayer and our serving men and women. So I won’t throw stones until I learn the details.

You are exactly right.

[big'ol_freeper]

Hey if you want to be at the whim of the politicians good graces to fund your retiremen in the out years like a welfare hag, have at it. I’d rather control my own retirement where they couldn’t touch it or de-fund me.

[Atlas Sneezed]

True patriotism is something other than:
“I don’t care if it bankrupts the nation, I demand every penny I was led to expect!”

[GAB-1955]

I don’t think this is a good idea for the reasons you mention.

[sarasmom]

At first, I recoiled from your position, but you do make some very valid points.

I served in peacetime,two enlistments, and observed a lot of ROAD warriors “milking it” through to retirement at twenty.Those that were not ROAD would have stayed active for 30 or more, if given the chance.(some did)

OTOH, my young Marine friend served one enlistment, in two combat war zones.
I count his service much higher and harder than mine.

We have had an all volunteer military force for over twenty years now, and I think it works better than the old draft force.
I think some changes in “retirement pensions” might be a good thing.It deserves more than an automatic negative knee jerk reaction from us old timers, who have no recent combat experience.

[mylife]

Military enlisted personnel have very little money to but into a plan like this.

[wita]

The current military retirement system is complete BS. If you serve anything short of 20 years you get nothing zero, zilch, nada. Very few actually make it to twenty years

Don’t completely agree with the first sentence, as I am one of few who managed to survive 20 years, however, I do agree there ought to be perhaps a combination plan to assist those who do not make it to retirement, but consider this:

Those in the military, thinking ahead, have always had the option for a traditional IRA. The tax deduction alone should inspire everyone, including those able to make it to retirement to have a traditional IRA with the full 2,000 dollar contribution.

After that, very few of the younger enlisted force would be able to save even more for a 401K contribution.

Just considering the IRA contribution, someone leaving the service after ten years, would have approximately 20,000 dollars, plus interest, plus reenlistment bonuses saved, for a nest egg.

[wita]

Back in the day, the restriction was certainly higher than it is today, but I think the age for getting in has risen a bit so that means more already married folk are volunteering.

Tough one.

[muawiyah]

Federal employee pensions are paid for ~ state and local pensions aren’t.

[big'ol_freeper]

Indeed. I served over twenty years and I get a check each month for my twenty + years of service, subject to the whims of politicians who can cut me off whenever they wish, but I also know there are a magnitude of others, particularly prior enlisted service members, who are passed over for promotion, forced from service or decide to leave service and they have no retirement fund to take with them. They are simply booted out of the door without the transferable retirement benefit most professionals take for granted...and believe me when you perform military service you are as much a professional as any executive, attorney, or physician. It is a complete travesty that our young men and women have been abused in this manner for so long.

[bvw]

• Civilian employment require you to miss your children growing up for years at a time

  Yes, some jobs do. Ask any Merchant Mariner, or wage-earner assigned overseas.

• How many times have you pulled 24 hours of continuous duty in a war zone while you wife, son or daughter had a birth, birthday or anniversary?

  Get me a crying towel, Marge. Bath size. Hugest we have.

• When was the last time you put on 80 pounds or restrictive protective equipment and worked outside in the 115 degree heat for days on end where people were actively trying to end you life?

  Let's ask any fireman (most are volunteer, btw) shall we? Or any logger, or deep diver, or miner. Or tree trimmer, or mason. YOU TRY DOING A STONE MASON'S JOB IN THE HEAT OF AUGUST, BOYO.

• How many times has someone tried to blow up the vehicle you are driving as a part of your employment?

  That is a hard reality, and it is something all of us need to work on solving and minimizing. But every job carries it's peculiar risks, and some are quite substantial. We work, as individuals and as a society, to solve those problems.

  Many of the improvements to safety and to those IED come out of all of us non-military folks who work in regular jobs inventing and producing them. Thank us!

• Do you work regularly overtime for free ? Weekends, Holidays, National Emergencies?

  You're joking right? You can't be that out of it to realize that an awful lot of folks still holding jobs or who have their own businesses are working very long hours, including weekends and holidays. Most of us are NOT government workers.

No more. I can't take your dang whining.

[bvw]

I also know there are a magnitude of others, particularly prior enlisted service members, who are passed over for promotion, forced from service or decide to leave service and they have no retirement fund to take with them. They are simply booted out of the door without the transferable retirement benefit most professionals take for granted...and believe me when you perform military service you are as much a professional as any executive, attorney, or physician. It is a complete travesty that our young men and women have been abused in this manner for so long.

You have bested my post by thousands of times, sir.