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eCat Has European Certification
ECat News ^ | October 24, 2011 | admin

Posted on 10/24/2011 7:35:54 PM PDT by Kevmo





eCat Has European Certification
October 24, 2011 | Author: admin
Many of us have been wondering about Defkalion’s stated progress (or otherwise) regarding official certification of their eCat derivatives. Since their divorce, it is interesting to note that Andrea Rossi states that he has completed CE compliance:
Andrea Rossi October 23rd, 2011 at 8:08 AM Dear Dario: The CE for the business to business has been done. For household applications not yet. Warm Regards, A.R .

The following snips are from the wiki entry:
CE marking (originally EC mark[1]) is a mandatory conformity mark for products placed on the market in the European Economic Area… .

… It means that the manufacturer has verified that the product complies with all relevant essential requirements (such as safety, health, environmental protection requirements) of the applicable directive(s) or, if stipulated in the directive(s), had it examined by a notified conformity assessment body…
…The CE marking is mandatory for certain product groups in the European Economic Area (EEA), consisting of the 27 Member States of the EU and EFTA countries Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein…
…Depending on the level of risk of the product, the CE marking is affixed to a product by the manufacturer or authorised representative who decides whether the product meets all the CE marking requirements…
It seems as though self assessment is allowed and it is up to the manufacturer to decide on what is needed with reference to product category etc. While I suppose it is always possible to claim CE early in a product cycle without conforming (especially if the product category is not obvious), something as controversial as the eCat, that will likely be high-profile and definitely subject to safety considerations would have to be certified by an authorised body. This can be a private company but must be independent from the manufacturer .

Remembering that AR has extensive business experience in Italy and has dealt with serious amounts of energy before and remembering too that he has fallen foul of the rules in his Petroldragon days, it seems unlikely that his statement is anything other than as it says .

Of course, the rules for business to business are likely to be less stringent than those for sale to the public. ‘How different?’ is an interesting question. Ironically, perhaps by going big and targeting high-energy industries, certification is relatively easy to obtain .

Could this be one reason for going to 1MW?



TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: cmns; coldfusion; derivatives; ecat; lenr
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1082

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1 posted on 10/24/2011 7:36:08 PM PDT by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Lancey Howard; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; ...

The Cold Fusion Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

http://ecatnews.com/?p=1082


2 posted on 10/24/2011 7:37:43 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

In before any heads explode.


3 posted on 10/24/2011 7:40:54 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Kevmo

The CE mark certifies compliance with some standards. The device won’t give you a shock, catch on fire, radiate dangerous EMI, etc. Pretty much any consumer product has it. Look on the bottom of your laptop/tv/stereo/blender....etc


4 posted on 10/24/2011 7:44:53 PM PDT by loungitude (The truth hurts.)
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To: Kevmo

So who certified the eCat, and on what basis? (These minor details were not in the post/story.)


5 posted on 10/24/2011 7:48:18 PM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Kevmo

Does this CE certification require the device to work?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_mark

A snippet of the article:
Legally, the CE marking is no quality mark. But depending on the applicable directive the CE marking factually can be considered to be a quality mark. Deviating from sectoral directives regulating other industrial goods, medical devices have to comply with “essential requirements” as described in Annex I of Directive 93/42/EEC, according to which medical devices have to be not only safe but also function in a medical-technical way as described in the manufacturer’s “intended purpose”. Compliance with these requirements is proved within a certified quality management system according to EN ISO 13485.

It seems if it’s a medical device it does have to do what it says. I don’t see that for other devices although I could be wrong and if I am, I’m sure someone will point it out.


6 posted on 10/24/2011 7:48:27 PM PDT by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: Kevmo

Tick tock, tick tock...


7 posted on 10/24/2011 8:02:50 PM PDT by glock rocks (Wait, what? Channel surfing without a remote since 2001)
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To: loungitude

We have had customers who went through CE certification with our products. It’s apparently a big pain in the rear, and there are specialist companies that focus on this process. Most companies give up and go to these vendors.


8 posted on 10/24/2011 8:31:46 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

Waiting for the verification of eCat’s authenticity is like supporters of Sarah Palin waiting for her announcement for the Presidential campaign. I stand on the side of skepticism.


9 posted on 10/24/2011 8:58:40 PM PDT by jonrick46 (2012 can't come soon enough.)
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To: Kevmo
It works and there is proof. Chief Editor Korir will release the documents.

Soon.

10 posted on 10/24/2011 9:09:36 PM PDT by edpc (Former Normalcy Bias Victim)
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To: Triple

Possibly Rossi?

“It seems as though self assessment is allowed and it is up to the manufacturer to decide on what is needed with reference to product category etc”


11 posted on 10/24/2011 9:21:40 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: edpc
Nah.

I think I will just wait and see if the thing outputs the promised hot water as it goes into operation at the university.

I really don't give a crap about the minutia, or the flaming egos of inbred academics.

Other people can base all their beliefs about the world on the rantings of this or that credentialed messiah instead of looking around themselves and observing if they want to though.

12 posted on 10/24/2011 9:25:27 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Kevmo
eCat Has European Certification

So does Greece. :)

13 posted on 10/24/2011 9:36:31 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: count-your-change
I hope he's taken care of the corrosion or deposit problem evident in this picture of the Oct. 6th test. He's only done a few short demos, and that doesn't look good for a device that's supposed to last years.
14 posted on 10/24/2011 10:36:34 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Lx
Does this CE certification require the device to work?

As you indicate, some devices have to function according to your documentation. But even that doesn't mean that they work. For example, an EEG machine may blink lights and show some graphs on the screen, but it doesn't mean that it produces any useful output. The standard is only concerned with using it during the test as a customer would.

Most of the compliance testing is done based on honesty of everyone involved. For example, if you are certifying a gadget you test what you are going to manufacture, and not a hand-built and hand-optimized version of it. The lab people wouldn't know the difference because they aren't going to travel to China to see what comes from the production line. A less than honest manufacturer can always test a product that is built well enough, and then manufacture a cheaper version of it. In essence, as long as he is not sued nobody would ever know what he did.

15 posted on 10/24/2011 10:43:43 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Moonman62
He's only done a few short demos, and that doesn't look good for a device that's supposed to last years.

If he wanted he could build a machine as a fountain outside of his office. The fountain would be lifted above the ground on some transparent (Lexan) standoffs, so that everyone can crawl underneath and see that there are no cables. The fountain would be heating the water, so that it's always hot. The fountain could work 24/7, well guarded so that nobody steals the secret sauce. [But is he going to guard *all* his power plants? That's not realistic. His secret will be out in minutes after the first device is sold.]

But otherwise yes, his short runs of the machine are disconcerting. But I have no dog in this race; it's up to the customer to check what they are buying. If I were them I'd be seriously worried about paying money for a power plant that works on a principle that science doesn't understand. For all I know, it could stop working tomorrow, or it could explode, or it could start radiating death rays, etc. Earlier discoverers of radioactivity were oblivious to the danger, with sad results:

Skłodowska–Curie visited Poland for the last time in the spring of 1934. Only a few months later, on 4 July 1934, Skłodowska-Curie died at the Sancellemoz Sanatorium in Passy, in Haute-Savoie, eastern France, from aplastic anemia contracted from exposure to radiation. The damaging effects of ionizing radiation were not then known, and much of her work had been carried out in a shed, without proper safety measures. She had carried test tubes containing radioactive isotopes in her pocket and stored them in her desk drawer, remarking on the pretty blue-green light that the substances gave off in the dark. [link]

16 posted on 10/24/2011 11:00:29 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Moonman62

We call that a “patina”.


17 posted on 10/25/2011 12:11:20 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Kevmo
Remembering that AR has extensive business experience in Italy and has dealt with serious amounts of energy before and remembering too that he has fallen foul of the rules in his Petroldragon days, it seems unlikely that his statement is anything other than as it says .

More accurately, the rules were suddenly and capriciously changed to fall upon him foul.
18 posted on 10/25/2011 3:32:56 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Moonman62

What is that? A car air filter?


19 posted on 10/25/2011 6:22:13 AM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Greysard
My father was a consulting engineer, helping companies get U.L. (Underwriter's Laboratory) certification for about 25 years. To the extent that the process is similar for both, this certification would cover the safety of the "conventional" parts of the system.

For example, Rossi uses an electric heating element, presumably in contact with the water flowing through the system. He would have to document that his device will not electrocute someone because of this. The easiest way of doing this is to buy a heater that is already CE certified to work in that environment, which is probably what Rossi did. He would then have to document that he is using that particular heater, and that he is using it as designed.

I would be interested in knowing whether his application mentions nuclear fusion. It might be that nuclear processes are outside of the jurisdiction of CE, and they might ignore it since it is outside of their jurisdiction.

But, presumably, there is some government organization that does have jurisdiction for any sort of nuclear reactor, and if Rossi is running his reactor without their knowledge and consent, he could be in serious trouble because of it. Especially if he blows up the city when his reactor goes supercritical.

Of course, if he isn't really doing any nuclear process, he wouldn't need to worry about certification from any nuclear agency.

20 posted on 10/25/2011 8:47:54 AM PDT by Johnny B.
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To: Toddsterpatriot

It looks like he needs to take it to Jiffy Lube.


21 posted on 10/25/2011 9:18:11 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: jonrick46

Skepticism is healthy.

Pseudoskepticism is what seagulls are engaged in.


22 posted on 10/25/2011 4:39:44 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: edpc

Do you have some evidence for this claim? Some kind of inside track?


23 posted on 10/25/2011 4:41:21 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo

If you know who Korir is, you’d understand what I mean.


24 posted on 10/25/2011 4:46:53 PM PDT by edpc (Former Normalcy Bias Victim)
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To: edpc

Never heard of him. Some kind of runner, according to the first few hits on Google.

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25 posted on 10/25/2011 4:52:54 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo
Try searching Sammy Korir, African Press International. Remember the Michelle Obama "whitey tape" story from 2007? He was behind it.

That and the eCat claims are on equal footing.

26 posted on 10/25/2011 6:29:04 PM PDT by edpc (Former Normalcy Bias Victim)
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To: edpc
Well, since you're using obscure references to Michelle Obama... ◄ The Lost Michelle Obama Tapes: Tape Number One - The Sermon on the Mount According to Michelle Obama (2008) Trivia TriviaGoofs It looks like we don't have any trivia for this title yet. Our intention with trivia is to make it as interesting and informative as possible. We want toprovide information about how a title was made, and what happened while it was in production.We want to reveal fascinating facts, point out cameos and director trademarks, and explain obscure references.See the Trivia page for The Dark Knight (2008) for examples.
27 posted on 10/25/2011 6:44:43 PM PDT by Kevmo (Caveat lurkor pro se ipso judicatis: Let the lurker decide for himself)
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To: Kevmo
"Pseudoskepticism is what seagulls are engaged in."

I think that would be "pathological skepticism".

28 posted on 10/26/2011 3:27:36 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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