Serbu
Posted on 12/01/2011 9:29:16 PM PST by Stonewall Jackson
I have a friend and colleague who is moving to Fairbanks next week and he is looking for a pistol to carry in grizzly country. He is an avid outdoorsman and will be hunting up there on a regular basis, but the only pistol he currently owns is a Browning 9mm.
He'd thought about getting a 1911A1, but I've pretty much convinced him that a .45ACP is okay against black bears, but is too slow hitting for effective use against grizzlies.
For a long gun, consider a Winchester 94A or Marlin 1894 carbines in .44 Magnum or a .30-06 rifle with 180 to 220 grain JHP bullets. For a shotgun, the Winchester 1300 Defender pump (extended magazine) with slugs or a semi-auto Saiga 12 or 12S in 12 ga. with an 8 or 10 round magazine with slugs.
A good package would be a combination pistol and rifle/carbine in .44 Mag (commonality of ammunition).
The S&W .460 Magnum is actually a better choice. It can fire a 200 gr bullet at 2400 fps and can handle up to 500 grain bullets.
I carry one whenever I’m in bear country.
Tell him to go .454 Casull or .480 Ruger in DA as you can go with heavier loads and thus less rounds for a kill. A while back young man killed a large grizzly with a S&W .44 Magnum Mountain Gun but it took five rounds. I have seen stories where others using these super magnums killing large grizzlies with one or two shots. The .454 Casull and .480 Ruger can handle bullets in the 360 to 425 grain range and have double the firepower of the .44 Magnum. The typical .480 Ruger commercial round is now loaded alot closer to its .475 Linebaugh parent and has devastating Taylor Knock Down values > 35 with 400 grain bullets. He can custom reload with these calibers and develop his ideal round. It would be best for him to test fire before making his purchase as the recoil and blast effects from these weapons is considerable.
Barring a lucky hit, you aren't going to drop a charging grizzly with one or two hits from a .44mag, you hopefully cause it to break off the charge. The weight, trigger pull and recoil of a .44mag class handgun is such that two aimed shots may be all you get during the charge.
My point was that the 5N7 has comparable power to a 9mm but about a third of the recoil meaning the gun will stay on target giving you the chance to place quite a few rounds on target. With each shot fired (loud) and each new hit, you increase the chance of the bruin breaking off the charge. Aftermarket reloads using solid copper bullets mean hits to the head and large bones have a better chance of penetrating. Hit's to soft tissue will tumble less and penetrate deeper.
For an example as to why I say one or two hits from a .44mag class handgun to soft tissue won't drop a charging grizzly, see the video I linked at post #64 and be warned, it's graphic.
Smith & Wesson’s 329PD .44 Magnum Lightweight Revolver is popular in Alaska because it's light enough that you'll actually carry it all the time, and strong enough to handle heavy, hardcast "bear bullets" without breaking. It's not exactly fun to shoot full power loads at the range, but that's not the purpose of the design.
That’s why I recommended the larger calibers .454 or above which you can be quite accurate with in spite of their power and all you need is one shot with them as their terminal ballistics are devastating. The 57 though easier to handle will never stop a bear or moose as they have lots of fat and muscle which will slow the lighter bullet down considerably as it enters the flesh thus decreasing the liklihood of further damage. The larger heavier bullets penetrate deep and kill fast as they are not encumbered by the limitations. It is a proven fact in hunting dangerous game and is the reality of simple physics. KE = mv. Why don’t you take a 57 and go hunting for a grizzly to test your theory?
For close up bears, (unexpected encounters) a pistol grip 12 gauge pump using five 3” shells loaded with triple ought buck. With the right shell, each shot lets loose a hail of twelve .36 caliber(.357)lead balls at over 1200 fps. Each pellet weighs 70 grains for a total of 840 grains.
I lived in Alaska 7 years and have shot a couple moose with .44 magnum handgun and was not impressed with stopping power. For bear protection when fishing, I carried a slung sawed off two row 12 loaded as above.
Even the Wife’s five shot Taurus Judge the 3” .410 shells pack five triple ought buck. At 850 fps that is 350 grains of whoop ass with each bang.
Forget about hitting a bear with that. Using combloc 7.62x54 milsurp ammo will blind it with the flame thrower flash and subdue it further with the stun grenade blast.
Bear Spray. it works.
I certainly agree that a reasonably well placed solid core +300 grain slug can bring down a grizzly sized animal. The 57 though easier to handle will never stop a bear or moose as they have lots of fat and muscle which will slow the lighter bullet down considerably as it enters the flesh thus decreasing the liklihood of further damage.
My thinking was to hopefully break off the charge by placing many shots on target versus one or two with the big bore handguns.
The larger heavier bullets penetrate deep and kill fast as they are not encumbered by the limitations. It is a proven fact in hunting dangerous game and is the reality of simple physics. KE = mv.
Yes but even with a .454+ sized round, only a brain, spinal cord or major bone break will drop a charging animal in it's tracks.
Why don’t you take a 57 and go hunting for a grizzly to test your theory?
Actually, a friend who lives in the backwoods of Maine uses the 5n7 as his daily carry sidearm should he come face to face with an angry moose. He said when you may have less than 5 seconds to force a charging moose to break off his charge, too many things can go wrong when drawing a big bore handgun in such high stress situation. Rather than best case one or two aimed shots with a large bore handgun, he'd take his chances with the cumulative effect of a half dozen or more aimed shots. Again, he isn't trying to drop the animal in its tracks, just deflect the charge.
He needs a big .454 or .50 cal pistol and a flare gun. I’d start with the flare and follow with the lead. He might learn a bunch of short prayers too.
Let’s see what happens when he engages an angry charging moose with a Model 57. I bet that will be the last you hear from him.
People with .454s have killed large bears with 1 to 2 shots to the vitals. Yes they charge fast sometimes but the small caliber gun is useless. Here are some stories from people from the wild who totally disprove your theory. Tell your friend in Maine to upgun before he gets himself killed:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/
I call it the Democrat National Convention.
Simply put, the heaviest load the shooter can accurately place on target in a panic situation is the one he should use.
Mark
“I have the FN 5.7 which holds 20 rounds and comes with 3 clips. Unload the clip on the bear but don’t stick around to see what damage you did.”
Don’t stick around? You won’t be around long.
A la Cooper on mouse guns: “if carrying it comforts you, do so, but do not load it, for if you load it you may fire it and hit someone and give them reason to do you great harm.”
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