Posted on 01/17/2012 8:10:03 PM PST by Kevmo
Rossi E-Cat Destined For Underwriters Laboratory
January 17, 2012 | 6 Comments
Andrea Rossi, the inventor and energy behind the E-Cat was interviewed by Gary Hendershot and Sterling Allan for the Smart Scarecrow Show last Saturday the 14th of January 2012. The headline remark was Mr. Rossi has sent prototypes to the Underwriters Laboratories (UL). As best can be determined, that remark is in the past tense.
The customary view is the UL accepts products destined for sale in the final form, which is a fact. However, the UL also offers governmental units assistance in establishing reasoned law, regulation and rules. For manufacturers the UL also extends more than just final product tests, they work with manufacturers at the design stage to assure that a final product will in fact achieve an UL label. It’s a highly likely prospect that the design stage is where the UL and Mr. Rossi have started the process. A quick review of the UL policy suggests that the E-Cat is substantially interesting enough to begin the UL Process and that Low Energy Nuclear Reactions are a new field.
For the cheering section, The UL will have to have a working unit running to establish their parameters on the terms set by the UL. At some point, if an application for certification is made, the certainty the E-Cat will offer an alternative power source is essentially – a sure thing.
The UL involvement follows news that National Instruments (NI) is working with Mr. Rossi in designing new control systems for the one-megawatt and home size 10 kilowatt (kw) E-Cat. In the conversation Mr. Rossi offered that now great progress is being made and on his blog he’s indicated that they have been able to achieve stable steam production of 400ºC. This will be important later for the efficient production of electricity.
The NI participation offers a technically proficient and sophisticated set of tools, expertise and products that will improve the E-Cat and impact favorably on its price. There are other hints in the conversation that suggest the operation of an E-Cat is going to be “Plug and Play”, so much so that a home unit is going to come very soon.
First is the E-Cat is being designed to self sustain itself after the first initial warm-up. For an hour the E-Cat is thought to need about 2.8 kw, or about the power of 28 100 watt bulbs. From initiation of self-power, the only requirement is going to be electricity for the electronics and control system. The home E-Cat will produce only heat for now.
It’s going to be very cheap heat. Mr. Rossi is suggesting he can sell the E-Cat for $400 to $500 using the best engineering possible of the production line, automation of all aspects of the factory, and the use of robotics. The goal is to make this technology so affordable that everyone will be able to purchase a system.
The next revelation is E-Cat units would be capable of being re-fueled by individuals, not by technicians – somewhat like changing the ink in a pen. After using a cartridge for 180 service days (counted up as the system is actively in use), the system will indicate it needs to be replaced. An old cartridge would then be sent to Mr. Rossi’s Leonardo Corporation to be recycled as much of the remaining nickel could be salvaged, and it would only need to be re-processed. Previous information has made clear that opening a cartridge is not a good idea as nickel while safe in sizes like coins isn’t when nickel is reduced to the particle size within a cartridge.
To begin with cartridges are expected to cost somewhat more than $10 and over time come down to the $10 regular recycled cost. If a home were to need one unit for both water and space heating at $500 upfront and lasting 5 years and $13 each six months the monthly cost would be $8.34 and $2.17 or $10.51.
The next revelation is the hydrogen needed to feed the reaction is going be sourced from within the reactor. The home E-Cat may utilize a material inside of the reactor core, which can release and absorb hydrogen. While the production of hydrogen isn’t made clear, the reactor may be producing it as well as using it, or some means of scavenging is being used. However its being done, very little in involved. A new core will be loaded with about 10 grams and only picograms are needed for driving the reaction.
The enticing clue for the disbelieving set is the proprietary radio frequency generator that has emissions to interact with the reactions inside of the core. Along with the catalysts this is information that will stay secret as long as possible. What did slip is Mr. Rossi compared the use of the radio frequencies to martial arts. Rossi explained that the radio frequency generator allows the forces that would normally prevent the fusion process from taking place (Coulomb forces) to work for you, and not against you. Rossi offers that the full theory of how the system works will be revealed, as he put it, “soon.”
By all means have a look at the full video of the interview. Its does run over 1:50, but for those with cause to be interested, this is a very good use of a couple of hours. There is also a transcript available too.
The Rossi interview follows a video from NASA that discusses the importance of proceeding with LENR research. The over reaction by some of those reporting on the video release is making more of a note than the original news. Or simply put, jumping to the conclusion the NASA video somehow supports the Rossi E-Cat is just false. The gentleman at NASA, Dr. Joseph Zawodny does not mention Rossi name, just that the preponderance of research has become many reasons to get to work.
The NASA video does point out one important thing. While the first to market will be forever a leader, the technology is just now taking off and where it will lead in the decades to come is today anybody’s guess.
>>...I haven’t seen any signs of U.L acknowledging this...<<
I wonder if the U.L. will respond to an inquiry as to whether they have/will receive his device(s) for assessment? I’d settle for a monosyllabic “Yes” or “No” to that inquiry.
If “yes”, then false/true verification from the U.L is inevitable. If “No”, then it’s a flat-out lie and there’s no reason not to presume the whole thing is a scam.
Hopefully, someone will make that inquiry and we will know one way or the other soon. I’d love for it to be fully legit, but my expectations remain quite low due to the historic constant of, “if it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn’t”.
I wonder if the U.L. will respond to an inquiry as to whether they have/will receive his device(s) for assessment? I’d settle for a monosyllabic “Yes” or “No” to that inquiry.I'm sure they wouldn't release that information without the approval of the customer. Of course, if Rossi is legitimate, he would have no trouble giving that approval. But, I'm not holding my breath.
My father spent 25 years getting U.L. listing for all sorts of products. If he were still alive, I'd ask him to make a few calls.
I do have the contact info for the (retired) U.L. Engineer he worked with most often (they were good friends), but I'm hesitant to ask him to investigate this on my behalf. Even if he provided me with useful information, I seriously doubt that he would allow me to publicize it "on the record" (since that would be a violation of company policies), and I'm not going to resort to anonymous claims, as Rossi and his fanboys do all the time.
Just for the record: U.L. doesn't care whether a product performs as advertised. They only care about the safety of the device. As long as you can't be hurt or killed by the device under reasonable operating conditions, it would have no particular difficulty being U.L. Listed.
U.L does require unrestricted access to the device being submitted for testing. It can be a prototype, but it must be identical in material and construction as the production version. So, to even attempt to get a Listing, Rossi would have to provide them with one or more gadgets for them to test however they saw fit. Based on everything I've seen Rossi do, he would never allow that.
Just another "Rossi says".
if it’s a scam, bet on Obama and Friend “investing” tons of taxpayer cash on it right before it all blows up.
if it’s not a scam, bet on him blocking it faster than a Keystone pipeline.
Welfare costs for displaced employees formerly involved in the oil, coal and power production and distribution industries could be sufficient to make it difficult for employed folks to pay the taxes to support them.
Rossi's device could very well be OVERPRICED!
>>...Just for the record: U.L. doesn’t care whether a product performs as advertised. They only care about the safety of the device...<<
Well that’s disappointing.
This could revolutionize the economy because of cheap energy. They would be smart to leave it alone and let taxes come out from increased production and commerce. This should also be able to be used for autos, trucks, ships etc. reducing the cost of transporting the items produced. Everything should become more affordable for the average person and low income countries should benefit greatly as well, providing of course that this is real and the government keeps it's filthy, squelching hands off of the thing.
You mean like all of Europe that has fuel taxes 200% of the cost of the untaxed fuel ?
No, I was thinking more like African nations. Dirt poor, no oil to sell, not enough fresh water but plenty of seawater to desalinate and get some crops going.
If you believe government is about doing what’s best for its citizens, then sure. If the goal of government is to keep people in their place, then disruptive technologies are ‘dangerous’ and to be avoided. The mere fact that nuclear reactions occur gives the NRC and their equivalent in other countries a greenlight to establish whatever costly oversight they want — paid for by taxing the product so energy is (coincidentally) not much cheaper than other sources.
Which is what I meant about taxing the crap out of the eCat in wealthy nations to redistribute to poor nations. The eCat could be cheap there and expensive here, right ?
Well, there’s always the smuggling option. ;-) In America’s history, this has been a major source of revenue.
7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,For your information, Ampenergo no longer exists:
It apparently served it's purpose (to provide some phony credibility for Rossi's scam) and has now outlived its usefulness.
You'll probably want to update your rant to include this new information.
7) and convinced his former partners to set up another company called Ampenergo to pretend that they had a contract for The Americas for a substantial sum ----- or that they just did this with no proof because they have worked with Rossi and trust him because he’s such a fine fellow,For your information, Ampenergo no longer exists:
It apparently served it's purpose (to provide some phony credibility for Rossi's scam) and has now outlived its usefulness.
You'll probably want to update your rant to include this new information.
Thanks for the ping.
That company, Ampenergo, was registered in an office building, sharing its space with a mortgage company, insurance company, and other non-manufacturing businesses. Where is the production of the eCat allegedly taking place?
It looks like the scam is starting to unravel. I guess there’s a limit to how long someone can keep stringing people along before they become suspicious. Even the fanboys would have a couple of doubts after a while.
Where is the production of the eCat allegedly taking place?Just last week, Rossi did a video interview (with "The Most Gullible Man In The World (tm)", Sterling D. Allan) where he claimed to be building a robotic factory in Florida. No evidence has been presented, of course.
It does seem that his lies are starting to catch up with him. We'll see how long the pathological believers hang on as Rossi continues to produce nothing but grandiose claims on his blog.
• Here’s my standard ‘ignore’ post to Johnny B.
This will be my standard post to you that says you’re not worth trying to have reasonable discussion, also says “buzz off” & doesn’t leave crickets. You’ve proven you’re just here to harass; you have demonstrated that you are not here to discuss things on a level that Free Republic intended.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/2832338/posts?page=51#51
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