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A Berkley Professor Wonders Why More Americans Donít Accept Abortion
http://liveactionnews.org/culture/a-berkley-professor-wonders-why-more-americans-dont-accept-abortion/ ^ | 3/7/2012 | Calvin Freiburger

Posted on 03/07/2012 7:15:50 PM PST by Morgana

Implicit in most pro-abortion commentary is a certain level of frustration that there remain people who disagree with them. “It’s the 21st century and the Supreme Court has spoken; can’t you anti-choice yahoos get with the program?” This leads to all sorts of outlandish speculation about what really makes pro-lifers tick.

Yesterday, UC Berkley sociology professor Claude Fischer published his thoughts on the “abortion puzzle,” attempting to figure out why Americans are growing “notably more laissez-faire on most sexual issues,” but not abortion:

Before the Roe v. Wade decision on behalf of abortion rights perhaps 25% to 30% of Americans were inclined to say yes [abortion is acceptable for any reason]. Then opinions shifted a bit in the liberal direction. Since that initial shift, however, the distribution of opinions has changed little. The trend since Roe v. Wade is displayed in the blue line in the graph below. About 37% of Americans said yes to abortion on demand at the end of the 1970s and about 41% said yes at the end of the 2000s.

Contrast that to the change, three times greater, in the percentage who said that “sex relations before marriage… [is"] not wrong at all” — the red line — from about 38% at the end of the 1970s to about 51% at the end of the 2000s. And contrast that to the shift, five-fold greater, the green line, in the percentage of Americans who disagreed with the proposition that “Women should take care of running their homes and leave running the country up to men.” Another perspective on this compares generations of Americans. The generation born in the 1970s was far more liberal than the generation born in the 1910s on whether women should stay at home and on premarital sex (by over 30 points on each question). But the 1970s generation was only a bit more liberal on abortion than the 1910s generation (only 7 points more).

To begin with, the premise’s question is flawed in two ways. First, while conservative and religious people are more likely to value stay-at-home motherhood, that’s a far cry from believing women should “leave running the country up to men.” If social conservatives didn’t believe in women having professional lives or political influence, then how do you explain Gov. Sarah Palin’s popularity among values voters, or the fact that the leaders of Live Action, American Life League, Americans United for Life, and the National Right to Life Committee are all women? This isn’t a recent phenomenon, as Fischer suggests—Mildred Jefferson helped found NRLC back in 1970, and Phyllis Schlafly has been an influential advocate for conservative cultural views since the sixties.

Second, abortion is not primarily a sexual issue. It’s related to sex because sex makes babies and abortion helps people have sex without becoming parents, but it’s only controversial because of what it destroys. But Fischer admits as much later in the piece, so more on this below.

Fischer cites a few sociologists who argue that disputes about gender roles lie at the heart of the abortion debate:

For one side, motherhood was the essence of being a woman, in which case abortion, especially abortion for convenience, devalued women’s purpose in life. For the other side, women were, or should be, essentially like men in ambitions and careers, in which case unwanted pregnancies undermined their freedom and the validity of their dreams.

But as time passed, the story goes, women’s reasons for getting abortions shifted, as did society’s conception of motherhood. With “how we understand motherhood…removed from the abortion debate, what remains are concerns about faith and about the personhood of the fetus”—“harder issues” to resolve than that of a woman’s place.

Could be. Or, it could be that personhood of the fetus was always pro-lifers’ chief concern, but the general public’s limited understanding of embryology made it easier to dismiss personhood as a strictly theological question. But as the science became clearer and ultrasound technology advanced, the truth of the pro-life message caught the attention of many who otherwise would have dismissed abortion as a private sexual matter.

Here’s a crazy idea: instead of writing books and commissioning studies about why pro-lifers believe certain things, maybe these guys could, y’know, ask us? Then again, the answer can’t possibly be as simple as “those people don’t want innocent babies murdered,” because that would raise some deeply disturbing questions about why pro-choicers don’t agree.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: abortion; moralabsolutes; professor; prolife
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I'll let the FReepers explain to the educated idiot why Americans, decent ones that is, don't accept abortion.
1 posted on 03/07/2012 7:15:57 PM PST by Morgana
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To: Morgana

He can no longer understand. His conscience has been seared by a hot iron.


2 posted on 03/07/2012 7:18:43 PM PST by Jedidah
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To: Morgana

Maybe it is because they do not like to KILL children?


3 posted on 03/07/2012 7:19:54 PM PST by ogen hal (First amendment or reeducation camp?)
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To: Morgana

Killing babies doesn’t appeal to most people.


4 posted on 03/07/2012 7:20:51 PM PST by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Jedidah

Conscience? Honestly with some people one has to wonder. When God was passing out this thing called a conscience they were out for a beer.

This man and others in the abortion industry are those types.


5 posted on 03/07/2012 7:20:51 PM PST by Morgana (I only come here to see what happens next. It normally does.)
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To: Morgana
“It’s the 21st century and the Supreme Court has spoken; can’t you anti-choice yahoos get with the program?”

It's the 21st century and God has spoken; can't you anti-life yahoos get with the program?

6 posted on 03/07/2012 7:22:24 PM PST by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Morgana

I can’t imagine why more people don’t agree with murdering babies, unborn or born. How silly of us!
excuse me while I go throw up.


7 posted on 03/07/2012 7:23:37 PM PST by Shimmer1 (No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up.)
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To: Morgana

Because some of still have morals, you idiot.


8 posted on 03/07/2012 7:25:08 PM PST by deweyfrank
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To: Shimmer1

AMEN!


9 posted on 03/07/2012 7:25:12 PM PST by doc1019 (Romney will never get my vote!)
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To: Morgana

I’m wondering why this professor doesn’t perform a late term abortion on himself?


10 posted on 03/07/2012 7:28:13 PM PST by Artcore
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To: Morgana
UC Berkley sociology professor

That's all I needed to read to understand this ALLEGEDLY educated idiot's position.

11 posted on 03/07/2012 7:29:42 PM PST by ssaftler (Obama 2008: "Hope and Change" Obama 2012: "Excuses and Blame")
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To: Morgana
Hmm... His name is Claude. Obviously a male that wants to tell women to accept killing their babies. I thought their mantra was that it was no one else’s business except the women's? He's a sexist pig! Demand his resignation NOW! (Get it NOW and now!) I'm a woman and if this guy thinks he knows it all have him bond with an unborn baby and if he's still for abortion he's even more of a vile scum.
12 posted on 03/07/2012 7:33:56 PM PST by MacMattico
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To: Morgana

“Why won’t you conservatives get on board with killing millions of babies? It should be obvious that is a good thing!”

Liberalism is a racist nihilistic culture. This whine puts it out there for all to see.


13 posted on 03/07/2012 7:34:33 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Spoiler Alert! The secret to Terra Nova: THEY ARE ALL DEAD!!!)
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To: Morgana

Has this a-hole academic actually ever seen graphic pictures of the results of an abortion?


14 posted on 03/07/2012 7:37:31 PM PST by rfp1234 (RFP's Law: Whoever blames Bush first shall lose the argument.)
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To: Morgana

“can’t you anti-choice yahoos get with the program?”

He’s sooooo much smarter than us, isn’t he?

I’m sure he’s never contemplated his mother making the “choice” he’d like to foist on those of us with consciences.

-—signed, anti-murder for convenience yahoo.


15 posted on 03/07/2012 7:38:50 PM PST by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: Morgana

Perhaps he needs to “off” himself, By making his own abortion retroactive, he could set an example for us...


16 posted on 03/07/2012 7:39:17 PM PST by Quickgun (Second Amendment. The only one you can put your hands on.)
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To: Morgana

Well if he needs it explained, he will never understand.


17 posted on 03/07/2012 7:39:38 PM PST by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: Morgana

Well if he needs it explained, he will never understand.


18 posted on 03/07/2012 7:41:29 PM PST by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: Morgana
"Fischer cites a few sociologists who argue that disputes about gender roles lie at the heart of the abortion debate:"

What lies at the "heart of the abortion debate" is the taking of an innocent life.

Moron.

19 posted on 03/07/2012 7:42:03 PM PST by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: Impala64ssa

Let me see, define certain humans as not being worthy of life, make it the “law”, and then sit in wonder as other human beings don’t “grasp” the concept.


20 posted on 03/07/2012 7:42:46 PM PST by boop (I hate hippies and dopeheads. Just hate them. ...Ernest Borgnine)
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To: Morgana

“can’t you anti-choice yahoos get with the program?”

I guess the learned Prof never heard that you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. Or maybe he just “deconstructed” that myth.


21 posted on 03/07/2012 7:43:45 PM PST by Boogieman
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To: Morgana

Well, in his case maybe a retroactive abortion is ok.


22 posted on 03/07/2012 7:43:53 PM PST by Mark (Don't argue with my posts. I typed while under sniper fire..)
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To: Morgana
It's Berkeley, numbnuts!

Live Action News needs an editor.

23 posted on 03/07/2012 7:48:06 PM PST by Rudder
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To: Morgana
It is the business of sociology to explain why people behave the way they do. Were the good professor serious about the topic he'd ask a few. Better still, take a course in basic biology.

I want to be patient with him because it is clear that he appreciates the basic question - there is obviously something different between the broad acceptance of sexual activity and a similar acceptance of abortion. Whatever could it be? Um...now let me think. Could it be because the latter involves a dead human being?

A sociologist cannot draw that conclusion. The furthest he can go is to conclude that there is a perception that the killing of a human being is involved. From there it is easy to fall back into the comfort of the position that it's only a matter of perception, and that the perception is likely to be erroneous.

Well, it isn't. It's a matter of stark appreciation of biological fact. That thing isn't undifferentiated tissue, it is a person. I will quote Christopher Hitchens on the issue: if it isn't human, what is it? And if it isn't alive, what is it?

It is, to be sure, a perfectly legitimate sociological question as to why so many of us think that the death of a human being is involved. "Because it is" is a terrifying answer. But it does lead to an equally valid question that I challenge him to ask: why so many think that the death of a human being is not involved.

24 posted on 03/07/2012 7:56:35 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Morgana

I wonder why this Berkley Professor wasn’t aborted.


25 posted on 03/07/2012 8:02:13 PM PST by WKUHilltopper (And yet...we continue to tolerate this crap...)
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To: al_c

With the latest so-called ethicists calling for after-birth abortion at the parent’s whim, it is certainly an anti-life crowd.
Reference:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/something-deadly-this-way-comes-after-birth-abortion-70975/


26 posted on 03/07/2012 8:03:06 PM PST by tbw2
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To: Morgana

Because babies are the least able to help themselves or defend their life.

Because all things want to live and we recognize that quality in us.

Because death is absolute and final.

Because no one would willingly let another human life be taken needlessly or cruelly at the hands of another who has no right to kill.

Because babies are beautiful.

Because babies are cute.

Because babies smell like babies.

Because babies smiling warm any weary soul.

Because babies laughing are infectious, making us laugh as well.

Because babies make baby noises and we just have imitate them.

Because only a loving God would create a baby so beautiful you know that baby represents life.

Because all life has equal value in the beginning, in the middle and at the very end.

Because I love babies.

(well, other peoples babies anyway)


27 posted on 03/07/2012 8:04:27 PM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: Morgana
Maybe because every 'successful' abortion ends up with at least one dead human...

That's a long way from the Hippocratic Oath ("First, do no harm...")

28 posted on 03/07/2012 8:04:48 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Morgana
I'm agin killing babies, born or unborn.

/johnny

29 posted on 03/07/2012 8:08:30 PM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Morgana
Simple, the vast majority of us are ADULTS who accept responsibility for our actions, not overgrown adult-sized teenagers.
30 posted on 03/07/2012 8:15:35 PM PST by Clock King (Ellisworth Toohey was right: My head's gonna explode.)
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The supporters of slavery never understood the abolitionists either, especially after the SCOTUS put the question to rest after the Dredd-Scott decision. I wonder why those annoying abolitionists didn't give up?

Mark

31 posted on 03/07/2012 8:15:46 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Morgana

Claude

32 posted on 03/07/2012 8:19:29 PM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: Morgana
"It's the 21st century and the Supreme Court has spoken; can’t you anti-choice yahoos get with the program?"

It is zee 1930s and Der Fuhrer has spoken; can't you Joo-loving schwein get vit zee program?

33 posted on 03/07/2012 8:23:32 PM PST by Always A Marine
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To: Billthedrill
I will quote Christopher Hitchens on the issue: if it isn't human, what is it? And if it isn't alive, what is it?

Easily answered.

Of course it is biologically human. Of course it is alive. Of course it is a human life.

Those are scientific questions with obvious answers.

The question is not whether the fetus is a human life, it is whether it is (or should be) a legal person with the rights of other persons.

This is not a question that can be answered by science, as it is moral, ethical and legal in nature. In fact, it is at root a theological question.

It is entirely logical, though deadly wrong IMO, to believe a fetus prior to the moment of birth is not a person and has therefore no legal rights. Or, more accurately, choosing the moment of birth as the point where such rights are acquired is neither more nor less logical than any other random point. This creates logical problems for proponents of abortion, as we can see from the recent arguments that "post birth abortion" should also be allowed.

Each human life is a continuum from conception to death, whether that death occurs 3 months or 100 years after conception. There is and can be no point on that continuum where it becomes logical to say that life should acquire (or lose) the "rights" of a "person" under the law.

34 posted on 03/07/2012 8:24:00 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Morgana

They understand. This “playing dumb” act is a cynical calculation by some VERY evil people.


35 posted on 03/07/2012 8:38:36 PM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both)
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To: Artcore
I’m wondering why this professor doesn’t perform a late term abortion on himself?

Would like to meet his mother so I can kick her arse as to why she brought into this world.

36 posted on 03/07/2012 8:47:44 PM PST by Digger (If RINO is your selection then failure is your election)
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To: Morgana
You don't kill anyone or anything simply because it is convenient.

These fools grew up thinking that steak originates in sealed plastic trays, they know nothing about death, or life, it's all put on someone else's shoulders, the doctor or the butcher or the cop.

Sit at a dinner table with them and discuss killing the cow and they'll ask you to leave. They will curse you as a killer because you hunt, while they eat a Big Mac.

They are able to tell, and believe, the lie that shields their conscience.

They are insane, and they will hate you because you aren't.

37 posted on 03/07/2012 8:49:43 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Morgana

Only a career academic could be so hopelessly blind and consummately ignorant.


38 posted on 03/07/2012 8:50:59 PM PST by EyeGuy (2012: When the Levee Breaks)
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To: Sherman Logan
I quite agree. One can avoid the theological element by positing that there is no God (that's actually about the only way to avoid the theological element) but once one concedes the obvious fact that the fetus is a human being one cannot avoid the fundamental ethical question of who decides, live or die? Here the "choice" position appears to me to devolve into the nihilistic sinkhole that the strong decide for the weak. That is, in essence and stripped of its pretensions, the pro-choice position. The strong decide whether the weak live or die.

There we have reached ethical nullity, the position of grunting beasts. I think that we are something more, and for evidence I shall point out to the ethically challenged that those of us who believe and behave otherwise tend to have grunting beasts for supper. There is something to be said for the strong protecting the weak, most notably that it is in the interest of those who were weak, are now strong, and who will inevitably become weak once more. In short, all of us, and those who pretend otherwise are only pretending.

39 posted on 03/07/2012 8:55:10 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: BenLurkin

Bingo. They KNOW that abortion is murder, that is why they never discuss the actual reason people oppose abortion, but rather make it a privacy issue, as the scotus did in its great moment of cowardice.


40 posted on 03/07/2012 8:59:32 PM PST by HerrBlucher (.)
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To: Morgana; Jedidah; ogen hal
his mother chose life
41 posted on 03/07/2012 9:20:59 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: MacMattico

nothing personal but while i am very anti abortion (not pro life...some folks need killing)

but the vanguard of abortion activism is hardly the provence of men except male democrats and male abortion providers...a shrinking populace btw

and men simply cannot have abortions and are as/more likely to be found pleading not to have one...especially boyfriends as the woman is to be insisting on having one or she may simply just not tell her sperm provider

husbands have a little more say

women abort their babies with medical assistance...could be a man or just as likely...maybe more so nowadays..a woman doc or PA or NP

any fault of that lies exponentially more with women than men

it is a sad commentary of the kinder gentler bunch since the early 70s....women prior to that would have been very reluctant

something that has become routine whereby perhaps as many as 35% of all women will have had an abortion at some time in their adult pre menopausal lives

and that is the real reason abortion is legal

shiftless men who like the convenience are way down the list on who is the culprit...it is exceedingly rare that men force women to abort babies at gunpoint...I’m sure it has happened and you can maybe find an example but very very uncommon


42 posted on 03/07/2012 9:24:51 PM PST by wardaddy (I am a social conservative. My political party left me(again). They can go to hell in a bucket.)
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To: Morgana; All
No wonder liberalism is a mental disorder.

No problem with aborting murdering innocent millions, but howl with indignation when the scum of humanity face the death penalty.

My favorite fron Ronald Reagan:

"I’ve noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born."

43 posted on 03/07/2012 9:25:08 PM PST by QT3.14 (European-American (/sarc))
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To: Vendome

That was beautiful. Thank you.


44 posted on 03/07/2012 9:32:36 PM PST by thecodont
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To: Morgana

In other news, Americans wonder why don’t more Americans refuse to accept Berkeley professors.


45 posted on 03/07/2012 10:14:28 PM PST by Ackackadack
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To: Morgana; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AKA Elena; APatientMan; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

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Most of the pro-abortion people don't want to admit the simple truth. Aside from the cutting edge "ethicists" who advocate for post-birth infanticide; I guess this nut weirdo isn't that "enlightened" yet.

46 posted on 03/07/2012 10:22:54 PM PST by little jeremiah (We will have to go through hell to get out of hell. Signed, a fanatic)
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To: Morgana

A Berkley Professor Wonders Why More Americans Don’t Accept Abortion

Glad you asked.
As Christians (80% of Americans Identify as) we believe it is a sin to murder the innocent
As Americans we side with the underdog/innocent and defend the innocent right to be born and to its life.....
Anything else I c an help you understand Professor just ask......


47 posted on 03/07/2012 10:53:18 PM PST by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I sign up for the New American Revolution and the Crusades 2012?)
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To: Billthedrill
You make an excellent point. I think one could argue against abortion entirely on non-religious grounds. Like you wrote, a human life is involved. Even without religion, most people would probably agree that killing someone is wrong, because they can empathize with how they'd feel if someone wanted to kill them. In other words, the Golden Rule doesn't have to be based on religious faith.

I think the non-religious case against extra-marital sex is less persuasive. That's probably why more people think it's OK. Even though a large percentage claim to be Christian, they are Christian in name only. They ignore the clear teachings of their religion, so the only thing that would make them oppose sex outside of marriage would be the non-spiritual repercussions.

I suppose one could argue that sex before marriage increases the spread of disease or causes out-of-wedlock pregnancies, both being negative results from a purely secular/non-religious point of view, but one can mitigate those results with birth control and disease prevention. If one is willing to ignore the spiritual ramifications of not doing God's will, then extra marital sex doesn't seem as bad as abortion.

48 posted on 03/08/2012 12:04:59 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Why celebrate evil? Evil is easy. Good is the goal worth striving for.)
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To: CitizenUSA; Billthedrill
I suppose one could argue that sex before marriage increases the spread of disease or causes out-of-wedlock pregnancies, both being negative results from a purely secular/non-religious point of view, but one can mitigate those results with birth control and disease prevention.

The spectre of a ruined reputation and loss of self respect, and a desire to avoid being "seduced and abandoned," are also "non-religious" incentives for a woman to avoid sex outside of marriage.

49 posted on 03/08/2012 12:08:39 AM PST by thecodont
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Because abortion kills nascent life, you jackass.


50 posted on 03/08/2012 12:23:35 AM PST by Gene Eric (Newt/Sarah 2012)
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