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A Revolutionary War General Escapes History’s Margins
NY Times ^ | 10-22-12 | JULIE TURKEWITZ

Posted on 10/22/2012 6:14:20 AM PDT by Pharmboy

Over 150 people gathered Sunday at Trinity Church in Manhattan to honor Gen. Horatio Gates. Mention “the Victor at Saratoga” and people may think that you are talking about a horse. Yet that so-called victor, Gen. Horatio Gates, the commander of the American forces at the Battle of Saratoga, played a crucial role in the triumph there over the British forces of Gen. John Burgoyne in October 1777.

Though other figures of the War of Independence are still widely revered and studied, Gates faded from the national memory. He died in New York in 1806 and was buried at Trinity Churchyard in Lower Manhattan. Precisely where is not known.

snip...

While it was Gates’s strategy that achieved victory, it was Arnold who led that final attack. That is why Arnold, not Gates, is often credited with the victory. “It was his strategy that was successful,” said Mr. Kaplan, referring to Gates. Saratoga was a decisive moment, spurring the French to enter the war on the side of the Americans, which helped secure eventual victory.

“Many people today,” Mr. Kaplan said, would say that “Benedict Arnold won it.

“I say it’s bunk,” he continued. “The whole thing was over before Arnold even jumped in.”

snip

Yet Gates might have helped put himself on the path to relative obscurity. He had a falling out with George Washington. And in 1780, his forces were defeated at the Battle of Camden in South Carolina.

(Excerpt) Read more at cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: horatiogates; revwar; thegeneral
Yeah...that's it...Gates had a 'falling out' with the General. How about his role in the Conway Cabal, Mr. Kaplan? And Gates might have lost Saratoga if it hadn't been for Arnold...and the article makes it sound as if the army ranks swelled because of Gates' presence: nonsense. And Gates ran so fast after his defeat at Camden, that he was laughed at for years about it.

Otherwise, the article is correct.

1 posted on 10/22/2012 6:14:29 AM PDT by Pharmboy
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To: indcons; Chani; thefactor; blam; aculeus; ELS; Doctor Raoul; mainepatsfan; timpad; ...

General Gates

The RevWar/Colonial History/General Washington ping list...

2 posted on 10/22/2012 6:22:33 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

There is a wonderful quilt pattern named “Burgoyne Surrounded”...


3 posted on 10/22/2012 6:25:45 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Pharmboy

4 posted on 10/22/2012 6:28:53 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Pharmboy
Rather than fight with Washington at Trenton, Gates decided to journey to Congress instead and lobby for Washington's job.

That sort of backfired.

At Saratoga, Arnold - sent by Washington - ignored Gates, attacked Burgoyne in contravention to Gates' intentions and carried the day.

Gates worked hard to earn his obscurity. Rehabilitating him is even siller than rehabilitating McClellan.

5 posted on 10/22/2012 6:32:34 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Pharmboy

Granny Gates was a backstabbing political animal whose envy of Washington killed his career. He even tried to lead an officers’ mutiny after Yorktown. He was a petty man. Unlike Nathaniel Greene and Daniel Morgan, Gates deserves to be forgotten.


6 posted on 10/22/2012 6:36:01 AM PDT by Repulican Donkey
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To: Pharmboy

Can’t you just imagine the ladies hunched over the quilting frame discussing the news of the day — or recounting history of the recently won Battle at Saratoga? I’m sure that these old patterns also were used to keep history alive in the minds of their children.


7 posted on 10/22/2012 6:36:42 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Pharmboy

Probably didn’t help that Horatio Gates was English. He wasn’t a ‘native born’ American hero...


8 posted on 10/22/2012 6:36:57 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: Pharmboy

Is this another installment of the “National Treasure” series? Trinity church? Gates?


9 posted on 10/22/2012 6:37:25 AM PDT by BubbaBasher ("Liberty will not long survive the total extinction of morals" - Sam Adams)
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To: Pharmboy

Saratoga - one of the turning points of the revolution that no one really knows about.


10 posted on 10/22/2012 6:41:00 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: afraidfortherepublic

That’s just terrific...I imagine that dates back right to RevWar times...perhaps put together by a lady in upstate NY or New England. Thanks much for posting.


11 posted on 10/22/2012 6:42:26 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Repulican Donkey; wideawake
Nice to see my fellow Freepers with a similar take on Gates.

Funny, even when the NY Times writes about the RevWar, they get it wrong.

Both of the English-born RevWar generals, Lee and Gates, vied for Washington's command and did what they could to undermine him.

Charles Lee is buried in the Christ Church cemetery, Philadelphia, along with true RevWar heroes (I believe there are six Signers buried there).

12 posted on 10/22/2012 6:48:42 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

Gqates had a falling out with General Washington?? A falling out? I’d say it was more treachery than a falling out! And Granny Gates was Not the victor at Saratoga. Benedict Arnold was.


13 posted on 10/22/2012 6:49:45 AM PDT by pgkdan (A vote for anyone but Romney is a vote for obama. GO MITT!!)
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To: Pharmboy
thxs, for the post ((history lesson :)

14 posted on 10/22/2012 6:51:30 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; w/ different flie$" :^)
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To: Pharmboy

Gates did more to help the British and Tory cause than the American Patriot cause. The New York Times continues to dig itself into an ever deeper hole of false propaganda. How much longer before it succumbs to a fiscal poverty equal to its moral impoverishment?


15 posted on 10/22/2012 6:56:02 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Repulican Donkey
Not to take away from his service during the revolution, but Morgan led federal forces to supress the Whiskey Rebellion.
16 posted on 10/22/2012 6:59:45 AM PDT by Wyrd bið ful aræd
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To: Pharmboy
There are lots of quilt names that reflect periods, or events, in our history. Some of them have different names for the same pattern, depending upon the peiod. For instance "Rocky Road to Dublin" became "Rocky Road to California" and later became "Drunkard's Path" during the period leading up to the Temperance movement. It is also called "Rob Peter to Pay Paul" for those who were more Biblically inclined. There are other patterns that go by these names too, but this is the one I am thinking about.

I have this one done by my great grandmother in blue and white from the mid 1800s. I spotted the same blue and white fabric in a quilt fragment in a museum in TX dating from the early days of the Republic of Texas. I believe mine was done in Missouri and brought to Oregon Territory when my great grandmother married my great grandfather.

17 posted on 10/22/2012 7:00:38 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: afraidfortherepublic

Yes...I was wondering if the ‘Surrounded’ pattern had already existed and was renamed, or it had been created after the battle. Thanks for the info about the quilts and the communication purpose (aside from keeping us warm) served by them.


18 posted on 10/22/2012 7:05:24 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

Thank goodness he finally got kicked out for Green


19 posted on 10/22/2012 7:05:44 AM PDT by chargers fan
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To: Pharmboy

Saratoga anniversary (belated) bump


20 posted on 10/22/2012 7:16:34 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("Why not eliminate the middle man and have whoever feeds Obama his lines debate Romney directly?")
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To: 2banana
Of a piece with Saratoga and the final ruination of British strategy to split New York into three was the battle of Oriskeny, fought at the same time as Saratoga along the Mohawk.

General Herkimer managed to stop St Leger from linking up with Burgoyne although he took a bunch of casualties and in fact was mortally wounded himself.

Upstate New York is a wonderful place to explore significant places of the Revolution.

21 posted on 10/22/2012 7:20:16 AM PDT by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Pharmboy
I have not found anything that is much more than conjecture. That is not surprising because "women's history" was not considered very impotant. However, nobody can discount the value derived within families of these old stories passed from one generation to another over the quilting frame.

From the site:

There's a wonderful history behind most traditional quilting blocks and Burgoyne Surrounded is obviously a commemoration of his surrender at Saratoga. It's a very geometric pattern, with a sort of thin, single Irish Chain pattern running through the main blocks.

22 posted on 10/22/2012 7:33:20 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: wideawake

Gates worked hard to earn his obscurity. Rehabilitating him is even siller than rehabilitating McClellan.

&&&
Well, for the progressives, anything they can use in their quest to diminish the Founding Fathers is helpful. Ergo, if Gates was opposed to Washington, he must be revered.


23 posted on 10/22/2012 7:48:10 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Pharmboy
Charles Lee is buried in the Christ Church cemetery, Philadelphia, along with true RevWar heroes (I believe there are six Signers buried there)

I was killing time in Philly one fine Autumn day while I waited for my passport to be ready and I walked by Christ Church Burial Ground and looked in at the grave of Benjamin Franklin.

Scattered across his grave were pennies thrown in, presumably in reference to his famous statement about a penny saved being a penny earned. While I was there, the officially sanctioned Benjamen Franklin impersonator walked over, picked up a penny and started asking people "My word, who is this fellow on the penny?". Everyone remained silent and he eventually shrugged and shuffled back inside.

When he was gone, one woman asked her husband "Who is it on there anyway?" and he said "I guess Franklin". So sad.

24 posted on 10/22/2012 8:05:44 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: Pharmboy

His portrait tells the story about him. His medal is very large and pulled to the left so we can see it well. His eyes look dissatisfied and seem to challenge us to take notice. There seems to be something burning in the background. Envy?


25 posted on 10/23/2012 6:03:45 AM PDT by Melian ("Where will wants not, a way opens.")
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To: Pharmboy

Thanks Pharmboy.

“Granny” Gates was never my favorite American General. Anybody who attacked Washington is unforgivable. I didn’t like the way he cut and ran at Camden either. De Kalb made a real contrast with him at Camden.


26 posted on 10/23/2012 7:19:34 AM PDT by ZULU (See video: http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-first-siege-of-vienna.html)
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To: ZULU

Yes...our takes on Gates are similar to our takes on many other issues. Great to hear from you.


27 posted on 10/23/2012 7:36:56 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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