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Second Drone Came from SIGONELLA, Sicily!
October 30, 2012 | gaijin

Posted on 10/30/2012 4:30:51 PM PDT by gaijin

Just heard from Fox news 15 minutes ago that second drone above Bengazi came OUTSIDE Libya --it came from SIGONELLA, Sicily...! It was UNARMED and replaced the first drone that egressed owing to low fuel.

For unmanned drone observation of an ongoing battle against an American target is it a requirement that cross-border ingress authorization come from **POTUS**..? Because THIS might have required that.

Does anyone know?

I'm asking because if that is so, then what is possible is that gayMuzzie permitted drone observation but required that it be UNARMED...!

If you have one spun up and fueled then putting some hellfires on the pylons takes all of..5 minutes. I cannot believe they did NOT have the time to arm it or simply forgot --it's INCONCEIVABLE.

IF cross-border authorization for this second Predator was required by gayMuzzie then I can't imagine it's being UNARMED could not have eventuated by anything other than his insane preferences..


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: bengazi; benghazi; benghazigate; drone; kenyanbornmuzzie; libya; libyagate; predator; shadowwars; threatmatrix; uav; waronterror
the question is important --was POTUS thinking rainbows and unicorns even AS SEALS WERE BEING KILLED ON LIVE TV...?!!?

>:(

1 posted on 10/30/2012 4:30:55 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: gaijin

Watch from MINUTE TWO OF THIS FOX VIDEO:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGaRToSdFEE&feature=plcp


2 posted on 10/30/2012 4:34:22 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: All


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3 posted on 10/30/2012 4:34:38 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: gaijin
Stories came out earlier this year that 0 likes to watch the video feeds from the drones, and spends a lot of time doing it.

I would only guess that he wanted a ring-side seat on the action.

4 posted on 10/30/2012 4:35:01 PM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: gaijin
Uploaded from the Photobucket iPhone App
5 posted on 10/30/2012 4:35:53 PM PDT by ConservativeInPA (In a previous life I was ...)
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To: Travis McGee

What’s up with this? Did this drone need potus order to fly into Libya? I can’t even fathom this!


6 posted on 10/30/2012 4:39:26 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and none dare call it treason)
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To: musicman

“Mission Accomplished!”

7 posted on 10/30/2012 4:39:53 PM PDT by Diogenesis (Vi veri veniversum vivus vici)
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To: gaijin
That is the BIG QUESTION. Why wasn't it armed? The other drone had run out of gas and had to return. But by that time they knew an attack was underway. What is the downside of arming it? Perhaps they believed that the Libyan government, which had the responsibility of protecting our diplomatic personnel and facilities and didn't do it, would be upset if they found out it had been armed. Or was it not armed because the decision had already been made not to intervene militarily regardless.

There was no legitimate reason for not arming it, even as just a contingency or option. You would not have to use the weapons, but given the fact they knew an attack was underway, it only seems prudent to have that option available. So who made that decision? It had to come from the WH.

8 posted on 10/30/2012 4:41:17 PM PDT by kabar
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To: gaijin

Let’s assume for now there was no AC-130. And let’s assume that BOTH drones went unarmed.

OK?

Woods was painting a target. Does that mean there was ANOTHER armed platform we don’t know about..?

I’m not sure they have fielded laser-guidable excalibur rounds by anything which is light.

Maybe he was painting in faith that platforms arriving later would know the primary enemy position? To me that seems somehow dubious. If he did, it seems very unlikely he would have done so from his M2 position atop, “The Farm”.

Anyone?

He was in real-time comms with someone who could see what he was doing and felt his actions were valuable.

I don’t understand this. Theories?


9 posted on 10/30/2012 4:42:23 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: ConservativeInPA

Holy crap!

That has got to leave a mark!

RIP brave soldiers, you fought hard!

Obama, You are a coward!


10 posted on 10/30/2012 4:42:58 PM PDT by Randy Larsen (Aim small, Miss small.)
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To: Nachum

FYI


11 posted on 10/30/2012 4:43:56 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: kabar

Exactly. That’s like someone phoning to police dispatch that 7-11 is being robbed and you radio to the nearest police station to ONLY sent cars driven by cops with NO GUNS.

It sounds like a faculty lounge lizard is controlling operational particulars.

It’s way beyond President Johnson and it brings us right back to the crazy, “botched prisoner swap” theory.


12 posted on 10/30/2012 4:45:54 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: kabar
What is the downside of arming it?

Range and time over station (TOS).

Predators don't hold a lot of gas. Hanging a couple of weapons significantly decreases range.

I'm not say that why this sortie was without weapons...just offering one option.

13 posted on 10/30/2012 4:46:01 PM PDT by TankerKC (If Mitt Romney is elected, everyone in the US will die!)
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To: gaijin
If you have one spun up and fueled then putting some hellfires on the pylons takes all of..5 minutes. I cannot believe they did NOT have the time to arm it or simply forgot --it's INCONCEIVABLE.

Could it have been a fuel consideration? Sigonella is 480 miles from Benghazi and a Hellfire would have increased its time to target and its loitering time.

14 posted on 10/30/2012 4:46:56 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: kabar
I have a better question. Why didn't they send F-18's. They could have made it to Benghazi a lot quicker than the drone.

The answer to both questions is simple. Obama.

15 posted on 10/30/2012 4:47:29 PM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: kabar

Anyone know the range/endurance penalty for arming with hellfires? Was the aircraft from Sicily a version that could be armed (MQ-1 or MQ-9)? Not that they couldn’t send in armed manned aircraft, but it may not have been an option for the closest UAV.


16 posted on 10/30/2012 4:50:42 PM PDT by leakinInTheBlueSea
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To: okie01

Great theory but then we would have expected a third and fully-armed Predator to have arrived on station at a later point (20 minutes or so).

Was there a third armed one we don’t know about, or was there none?

If there was none then it’s like gayMuzzie WANTED them to die or at least get kidnapped.

Snuff film? I don’t get it...something I’m not seeing.


17 posted on 10/30/2012 4:51:17 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: TankerKC
But we use armed drones in defense of the rebels when the overthrew Ghadaffi. They were based out of Italy.

A U.S. Predator drone was involved in the airstrike on Muammar Qaddafi's convoy Thursday in the moments before his death, a U.S. defense official told Fox News

U.S. engagement in Libya consisted mostly of aerial missions. More than 70 U.S. aircraft were involved in the Libya operation -- throughout, the U.S. conducted a total of 145 Predator strikes in the country, in addition to thousands of other aerial missions. The United States has stepped up the use of Predator drones in several other countries, including Pakistan and Yemen. A drone was credited with killing American-born radical cleric Anwar al-Awlaki in September.

18 posted on 10/30/2012 4:54:39 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Great point —Sigonella is a major navy air-station and there WERE F-18’s. If they kick the spurs they can make it over Bengazi in...less than 30 minutes.

And F-18’s are easily armed with weapons terminally-guided by the type of GLD Woods was using when he was killed by the motar crew he had been painting.

Still doesn’t make sense, if we hang on to the idea that gayMuzzie did want to protect Americans.

But I’m still asking the question before, ie, does that Prez have to authorize cross-border ingress by a UAV to an American target under attack.


19 posted on 10/30/2012 4:55:46 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Former Proud Canadian

Perhaps they were afraid of hand held anti-aircraft weapons, about 10,000 to 20,000 were unaccounted for. In addition, using an F-18 would be less precise given the urban setting.


20 posted on 10/30/2012 4:57:08 PM PDT by kabar
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To: okie01
Could it have been a fuel consideration? Sigonella is 480 miles from Benghazi and a Hellfire would have increased its time to target and its loitering time.

Maybe. The Predator carries ~720 lbs of fuel. Two Hellfires would add ~215 lbs. There are max takeoff weight considerations…

21 posted on 10/30/2012 5:00:34 PM PDT by TankerKC (If Mitt Romney is elected, everyone in the US will die!)
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To: Former Proud Canadian

I’m still sickened over this chain of events from Benghazi. I’m angrier than I’ve ever been at this administration. I’m even angry at some of my so-called friends who don’t know their butts from a hole in the ground and are ill informed, and still voting for this POS.

Maybe I need some new friends. I am keeping them at bay right now, because honestly I don’t have good feelings toward their lack of research on this fraud, and don’t care to do so. They have this mentality that Republican-bad, Democrats-good.


22 posted on 10/30/2012 5:00:40 PM PDT by Catsrus (Ma)
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To: Travis McGee

wow


23 posted on 10/30/2012 5:04:55 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: leakinInTheBlueSea; TankerKC

The MQ-9 Reaper (originally the Predator B) is an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) (also known as a Remotely Piloted Vehicle (RPV)) developed by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems (GA-ASI) for use by the United States Air Force, the United States Navy, Italian Air Force, and the Royal Air Force. The MQ-9 is the first hunter-killer UAV designed for long-endurance, high-altitude surveillance

- Although the MQ-9 can fly pre-programmed routes autonomously, the aircraft is always monitored or controlled by aircrew in the Ground Control Station and weapons employment is always commanded by the pilot. Hence the preference to refer to the MQ-9 as a Remotely Piloted Vehicle

- Operators can hunt for targets and observe terrain using a number of sensors, including a thermal camera. One estimate has the on-board camera able to read a license plate from two miles (3.2km) away

- An operator’s command takes 1.2 seconds to reach the drone via a satellite link

- An MQ-9 with two 1,000 pound (450 kilogram) external fuel tanks and a thousand pounds of munitions has an endurance of 42 hours. The Reaper has an endurance of 14 hours when fully loaded with munitions

- The MQ-9 carries a variety of weapons including the GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb, the AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-ground missiles, the AIM-9 Sidewinder.[13] and recently, the GBU-38 JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition)


24 posted on 10/30/2012 5:05:32 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Diogenesis

25 posted on 10/30/2012 5:09:17 PM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: kabar
Personally, I am tired of affording these animals the protection of a civilized way of war. They don't deserve it.

If they want us all to live in the 13th century, maybe its time we introduced them to some 13th century warfare.

The armed mob outside the CIA station dies. The hangers on die. Bystanders die. People in the neighborhood die. I just don't care anymore. What has our western sense of precise targeting gotten us? More defiance.

Time to put the hammer down. Kill an ambassador? Everyone on scene on the other side dies. Bomb their training camps. Kill their bankers. Kill the merchants who sell them food.

Either fight the war or get out. No more half measures. No more sending the CIA out there alone to get slaughtered and then making excuses why you couldn't rescue them.

26 posted on 10/30/2012 5:09:39 PM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: TankerKC

SPECIFICATIONS

• Crew: None
• Landing Type: runway
• Launch Type: runway
• Power Plant: Honeywell TP331-10 turboprop engine, 950 SHP (712 kW)
• Fuel Capacity: 4,000 lb (1800 kg)
• Wingspan: 66 ft (20 m)
• Height: 12.5 ft (3.6 m)
• Empty weight: 3,700 lb (2200 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 10,500 lb (4760 kg)


27 posted on 10/30/2012 5:10:10 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Former Proud Canadian; TigersEye

Ping


28 posted on 10/30/2012 5:12:02 PM PDT by Former Proud Canadian (Obamanomics-We don't need your stinking tar sands oil, we'll just grow algae.)
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To: TankerKC

WEAPONS AND ARMAMENTS

• 7 Hardpoints
• Up to 1,500 lb (680 kg) on the two inboard weapons stations[64]
• Up to 750 lb (340 kg) on the two middle stations[64]
• Up to 150 lb (68 kg) on the outboard stations [64]
• Center station not used
• Up to 14 AGM-114 Hellfire air to ground missiles can be carried or four Hellfire missiles and two 500 lb (230 kg) GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs. The 500 lb (230 kg) GBU-38 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) can also be carried. Testing is underway to support the operation of the AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missile.

- Trading off some of the missiles, the MQ-9 Reaper can carry laser guided bombs, such as the GBU-12. The availability of high performance sensors and large capacity of precision guided weapons enable the new Reaper to operate as an efficient “Hunter-Killer” platform, seeking and engaging targets at high probability of success. It is equipped with an L-3 Communications Tactical Common Datalink (TCDL)

- Tests are underway to allow for the addition of the AIM-92 Stinger air-to-air missile. Air Force believes that the Predator B will give the service an improved “deadly persistence” capability, with the RPV flying over a combat area night and day waiting for a target to present itself

- In this role an armed RPV neatly complements piloted strike aircraft. A piloted strike aircraft can be used to drop larger quantities of ordnance on a target while a cheaper RPV can be kept in operation almost continuously, with ground controllers working in shifts, carrying a lighter ordnance load to destroy targets


29 posted on 10/30/2012 5:12:55 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

In March of 2011 we also used about 170 cruise missiles in Libya


30 posted on 10/30/2012 5:14:14 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL

I guess we weren’t as concerned with collateral damage then.


31 posted on 10/30/2012 5:16:54 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

14 or 42 hours?

That is a huge difference


32 posted on 10/30/2012 5:24:35 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: kabar

I guess not. But I venture a guess that we have MORE intelligence about Libya now than then.


33 posted on 10/30/2012 5:28:15 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: gaijin
But I’m still asking the question before, ie, does that Prez have to authorize cross-border ingress by a UAV to an American target under attack.

I'm sure he does - if the border belongs to one of "the few countries that matter." However Libya is not one of them, and its border is crossed daily by thousands of wanderers and gun runners from AQ. Libya as a country ceased to be once Gaddhafi was overthrown and the official enforcement of laws stopped. Now it is just an abstract territory with no unified power structure. They just had a mini-war with another faction a week ago. Libya needs to work long and hard to become a country again. As it is, crossing its "border" may be done by anyone who can. Absence of law in that place would amply justify the need, and I can't imagine any country in the world (except NK, perhaps) to object to such a very specific mission. Vlad Putin would simply say "They broke it, let them fix it."

34 posted on 10/30/2012 5:35:00 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


35 posted on 10/30/2012 5:38:53 PM PDT by Nachum (The List was hacked- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: GeronL
14 hours fully loaded with all the munitions listed. 42 hours unarmed. And any thing in between depending on the munitions load.

14 hours would have been more than enough time to accomplish this mission, i.e., it would have allowed 8 or 9 hours over the target. And probably more since I doubt that they would not have all those munitions on board for this kind of mission.

36 posted on 10/30/2012 5:44:21 PM PDT by kabar
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To: Nachum

The Marxist is completely unfit for CIC.
I will be banned were I to say anything else.


37 posted on 10/30/2012 5:51:05 PM PDT by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: gaijin

Why was the first drone there?


38 posted on 10/30/2012 6:21:19 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: gaijin

There is no forgetting. This is the US military. We have contingencies and plans for about every scenario. Our men and women train for an operation just like this. A decision was made, the Administration is playing ‘stupid’ and the general population is buying it - as if we have some type of 3rd world military operation where nobody knows what is going on. Of course they know what is going on!


39 posted on 10/30/2012 6:28:31 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: kabar

Those are all specs for an MQ-9 Reaper. I’ve given you the specs for an MQ-1 Predator.


40 posted on 10/30/2012 7:29:58 PM PDT by TankerKC (If Mitt Romney is elected, everyone in the US will die!)
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To: GeronL
14 or 42 hours? That is a huge difference

That is 14 hours carrying a full load of munitions. Once the munitions have been expended the flight time would increase. Lets say that it takes 3- hours to get over the site. 30 minutes to find targets and fire munitions (These are both high estimates.)This would use approximately 25 % of it's fuel which would still allow approximately 28-30 hours of observation time.

41 posted on 10/30/2012 7:37:40 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga

That’s a Reaper, much bigger than a Predator.

Would they even consider flying a Predator over the Med Sea?


42 posted on 10/30/2012 7:39:31 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
Would they even consider flying a Predator over the Med Sea?

Because that's all that they had at Sig. They flew them from Sig to Libya during their "liberation".

43 posted on 10/30/2012 7:53:22 PM PDT by TankerKC (If Mitt Romney is elected, everyone in the US will die!)
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To: TankerKC

So why wouldn’t they use the MQ-9 Reaper? It has been around for a few years and is proven technology. It has been used in Libya.


44 posted on 10/30/2012 9:05:34 PM PDT by kabar
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To: gaijin

why did they feel the need to watch and do nothing ..to make sure our guys were dead?


45 posted on 10/30/2012 9:36:08 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Former Proud Canadian
Oh, boy!

Thanks for the ping.

Predator 1 video 9:18 Nov. 6, 2006

There is a nine minute outtake from the show Future Weapons on Predator drones. You will definitely be interested in some of the particular specifications, capabilities and a couple of other key points about them mentioned there.

46 posted on 10/31/2012 5:12:59 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: kabar

“Perhaps they were afraid of hand held anti-aircraft weapons, about 10,000 to 20,000 were unaccounted for.”

They weren’t so afraid to send unarmed drones. Arming them would be an act of preparedness. They could decide what and when to shoot when they got there.


47 posted on 10/31/2012 8:30:05 PM PDT by HollyB
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To: kabar

Just saw you were referring to F-18s. Sorry for that.


48 posted on 10/31/2012 8:33:25 PM PDT by HollyB
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