Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Inconceivable Embarrassment From Cold Fusion
New Energy and Fuel ^ | Dec 10 2012 | Anon

Posted on 12/10/2012 5:50:12 AM PST by Wonder Warthog

U.S. institutional politics, government agencies, and academic science have been caught in denial so strident they’re now shouting “no” while stark raving naked. The nakedness is because of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions or LENR, or an evolution of the famed cold fusion.

The intellectual embarrassment is tattooed to the naysayers forever and disqualifies many people.

Steve Krivit reports from behind his paywall physicist Yasuhiro Iwamura from Mitsubishi Heavy Industries that researchers at Toyota Central Research and Development Laboratories performed an independent replication of a Mitsubishi low-energy nuclear reaction transmutation experiment.

Iwamura spoke of the replication at the American Nuclear Society’s LENR session on Nov. 14th 2012 in San Diego. Krivit reports Iwamura saying the Toyota researchers confirmed that nuclear changes from one element to another took place without the use of high-energy nuclear physics.

Toyota is being said to have used a LENR deuterium-permeation transmutation method that Iwamura invented. This follows the information that Osaka University and Iwate University had previously reported similar replications.

Iwamura is said to have been working with this LENR method for 14 years.

The target of the work in Japan seems directed to the transmutation of elements, something that has been seen in many past experiments of LENR. Direct potential commercial applications could be processing of nuclear waste or the production of rare earth elements such as platinum.

The story is leading to two different camps, the LENR people trying to produce energy and the Low Energy Nuclear Transmutation (LENT, a new short form to remember) people trying to change an element into another. The process is doing about the same thing; each pathway is optimized to achieve one result or the other.

Now Mitsubishi and Toyota, two major international industrial firms are releasing information. The firms obviously understand that the money from product sales will be vastly more important than research grants.

Politics, bureaucrats and academia are being scooped by big business. It’s probably a good thing.

Private enterprise isn’t just after LENR in Japan.

Dr. Francesco Celani has announced a successful 3rd party replication of his LENR system, which apparently has been improved since he did the demonstration at National Instruments Week in Texas earlier this year.

Celani said the reactor used is completely different from the one he and his group developed and used. As a result, he says, the probability of a systematic error in the measurements has become highly unlikely.

The private firm involved in this effort is believed to be STMicrolectronics, a French-Italian electronics manufacturer based in Geneva, Switzerland. The firm’s logo is part of the photos Dr. Celani has released.

What is one to make of all this? The first major point is academia has utterly let the world down. Now that LENR obviously functions there are almost no experimental experts available or organized training underway. The world economy is completely out of the loop, so far. The second is governments worldwide have set up a patent barrier, which is still in place that keeps the potential dowsed down. Only the very brave and eccentric have ventured out with Andrea Rossi leading the way.

At the human level the price of condemnation is beginning to show. For those who followed the press, media and academic lead to condemn Pons and Fleischmann, while some knew full well that a few very careful experimenters were able to replicate the work, the guilt is the harm done to science progress, intellectual expansion and economic growth.

At the frontier of knowledge there is no disgrace at an experiment that fails. Disgrace comes from denial of the opportunity for research and experimentation. Denial of a venture into the unknown is one of the ultimate scientific dishonesties.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: canr; cmns; coldfusion; energy; lenr; transmutation
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-164 next last
Transmutation in LENR replicated. Note that the companies that are making the announcement(s) are not small, fly-by-night firms.

The possibility that LENR is fraudulent, or a result of error is now non-existent, and "the ducks are coming home to roost".

1 posted on 12/10/2012 5:50:19 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

For those of you interested in an in-depth discussion of the science in language a layman can understand, but with sufficient depth to be convincing to the dedicated scientist, this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Excess-Heat-Fusion-Research-Prevailed/dp/0967854830/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1355146973&sr=1-1&keywords=Excess+Heat+Why+Cold+fusion+science+prevailed

is excellent.


2 posted on 12/10/2012 5:52:05 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/IwamuraYobservatiob.pdf

Link to the Mitsubishi research.

It should also be noted that the Toshiba work was reported at a meeting of the American NUCLEAR Society.


3 posted on 12/10/2012 5:54:33 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

Academia is full of pc nonthinkers


4 posted on 12/10/2012 5:55:25 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog; Kevmo

Bookmark.


5 posted on 12/10/2012 5:59:38 AM PST by SunTzuWu
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Transmutation in LENR replicated

Or so they say.

The possibility that LENR is fraudulent, or a result of error is now non-existent,

The possibility that LENR is fraudulent, or a result of error is now exactly the same as it was before. UNTIL this is PUBLICALLY DEMONSTRATED it still just remains CLAIMS.

6 posted on 12/10/2012 6:04:00 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk

. . . and while claiming moral and intellectual superiority to the masses, they have reverted to a base human characteristic . . . the self-righteous ba$tards are greedy and selfish . . . they are on the take


7 posted on 12/10/2012 6:17:08 AM PST by RatRipper (Self-centeredness, greed, envy, deceit and lawless corruption has killed this once great nation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

It is amazing that the global warming pseudo science gained wide acceptance despite strong evidence it does not exist and was based on manipulated data, while “ cold fusion” has far more credible research supporting it and has not been taken seriously.


8 posted on 12/10/2012 6:18:36 AM PST by The Great RJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RatRipper

they are wine swishing morons feeding at the public trough


9 posted on 12/10/2012 6:21:54 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Only the very brave and eccentric have ventured out with Andrea Rossi leading the way.

You had me until this.
Andrea Rossi is a complete fraud.

10 posted on 12/10/2012 6:29:12 AM PST by Politically Correct (A member of the rabble in good standing)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

It doesn’t inspire confidence when nuclear physicists mis-spell spell “length” in one of their figures.


11 posted on 12/10/2012 6:32:10 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Great RJ

Easy to answer, cheap energy bad, and must be discouraged, expensive unreliable energy good and must be encouraged. Left wing cronies get nothing out of it.


12 posted on 12/10/2012 6:32:24 AM PST by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude

mis-spell spell? Damn it.


13 posted on 12/10/2012 6:33:34 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: from occupied ga
"The possibility that LENR is fraudulent, or a result of error is now exactly the same as it was before. UNTIL this is PUBLICALLY DEMONSTRATED it still just remains CLAIMS.

Uh, the criterion for validity is replication, which has been done, and in the case of Mitsubishi, published. "Public demonstration" has precisely nothing to do with science.

And I'm sure you'll also come up with some reason to ignore Celani's results, which HAVE been "publically demonstrated" multiple times.

Skeptopath thinking.

14 posted on 12/10/2012 6:47:20 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Politically Correct
"You had me until this. Andrea Rossi is a complete fraud."M

So, the mere appearance of the word "Rossi" makes all the other facts inadmissable?? That attitude sounds like pathological skepticism to me.

15 posted on 12/10/2012 6:48:19 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

“The possibility that LENR is fraudulent...” - WW

The probability of fraud the same as it was. Check your logic.

Since some stock certificates are true and valid, are all stock certificates true and valid?

If presented with a stock certificate from BNY Mellon, do you treat it with the same precaution as you would from one claimed to be found in grandma’s safe? How would you treat one presented from a convicted forger?

The scientific process and search for truth is about independent verification. Trust nobody. Instead get their procedures and replicate the findings.


16 posted on 12/10/2012 6:50:48 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude
"It doesn’t inspire confidence when nuclear physicists mis-spell spell “length” in one of their figures."

LOL. MOST physicists can't spell for sour apples, and in this case you're also talking about "English as a second language", as the speaker is Japanese.

All of which is irrelevant to the FACT of replication, by solid researchers at world-class organizations.

17 posted on 12/10/2012 6:50:56 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude

Too funny. Karma.


18 posted on 12/10/2012 6:55:10 AM PST by MPJackal ("From my cold dead hands.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

>> For those of you interested in an in-depth discussion

Yeah, “in depth discussion” is the ONLY thing the LENR “industry” has produced. With a liberal amount of whining as a by-product.

I’m not interested in “in depth discussion”. Won’t heat or cool my house.

Got power?


19 posted on 12/10/2012 6:55:46 AM PST by Nervous Tick (Without GOD, men get what they deserve.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Triple
"The probability of fraud the same as it was. Check your logic."

My logic is just fine. Note "LENR" as the broad class. That there may be some individuals practicing fraud within that broad class is not what I'm referring to.

According the the hot physicists, ALL LENR research is either fraudulent or mistaken. That position is now untenable by any measure.

"The scientific process and search for truth is about independent verification. Trust nobody. Instead get their procedures and replicate the findings."

Which is precisely what has been done, and what the article refers to.

20 posted on 12/10/2012 6:56:13 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

So, the mere appearance of the word “Rossi” makes all the other facts inadmissable?? That attitude sounds like pathological skepticism to me.
/////////////
Rossi’s work has been pushed on FR for years.

It has gone nowhere. About like BlackLight Power—which also has been making similar claims for years that somehow go nowhere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackLight_Power


21 posted on 12/10/2012 7:00:37 AM PST by ckilmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Nervous Tick
"Yeah, “in depth discussion” is the ONLY thing the LENR “industry” has produced. With a liberal amount of whining as a by-product."

"I’m not interested in “in depth discussion”. Won’t heat or cool my house."

Another term for "in depth discussion" is "thorough presentation of the scientific evidence". And this thread is about the science, not what you may or may not be interesed in, or what might heat or cool your house.

22 posted on 12/10/2012 7:00:49 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: yldstrk

and protecting their government benefactors


23 posted on 12/10/2012 7:01:05 AM PST by RatRipper (Self-centeredness, greed, envy, deceit and lawless corruption has killed this once great nation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: The Great RJ
"It is amazing that the global warming pseudo science gained wide acceptance despite strong evidence it does not exist and was based on manipulated data, while “ cold fusion” has far more credible research supporting it and has not been taken seriously."

So true!

24 posted on 12/10/2012 7:03:57 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: ckilmer
"Rossi’s work has been pushed on FR for years."

Nobody has "pushed" Rossi's work on FR. A very few have had the unpardonable temerity to actually attempt to have a rational discussion of it based on the presented evidence. Which unleashed the wrath of the pathological skeptics for whom any discussion of Rossi (or for some, of LENR as a topic) is anathema.

This thread is not about Rossi. If you want to actually discuss the article or the science, stick around. If not, I suggest you not "click here".

26 posted on 12/10/2012 7:10:14 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

I have always been pulling for cold fusion ever since Pons and Flieshchman announced. I bought the Wall Street Journal the next day to get the details. I am surprised the Israelis have not been more active in cold fusion. They need the energy, they have the scientists, plus successful cold fusion marginalizes Arabs/Muslims who only have oil/gas to sell the world

Japan has few oil/gas resources so they should have always been pushing harder for cold fusion development....But now they are getting there with some heavy hitters


27 posted on 12/10/2012 7:18:24 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Uh, the criterion for validity is replication,

Horse sh!t. You remind me of those people who thought that you could fill your gas tank with water and drop a pill into it and drive.

Anything that claims to generate nuclear reactions at chemical activation energy levels needs to be viewed with extreme scepticism.

28 posted on 12/10/2012 7:19:01 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

“All of which is irrelevant to the FACT of replication, by solid researchers at world-class organizations.”

I am not a physicist but am pretty good at spotting poorly designed controls. I will have to look at their paper to see if anything stands out. Remember that when cold fusion was first reported it was replicated by scientists at some good schools, albeit probably grad students and not skeptical industrial scientists.


29 posted on 12/10/2012 7:20:09 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Obama being re-elected is the political equivalent of OJ being found not guilty.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

I agree it is very positive for the world, that real, transparent science is being practiced in this area, by well-established scientists with strong reputations. (like BNY Mellon and the stock certificates.)

As you are aware, that has little to do with the charade games played by Rossi. It is a shame that he was mentioned in the article. This article does not change one Iota of the possibility of fraudulent conduct on the part of Rossi.


30 posted on 12/10/2012 7:20:49 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Krivit reports Iwamura saying the Toyota researchers confirmed that nuclear changes from one element to another took place without the use of high-energy nuclear physics.

This in itself is pretty old hat. I was running these just last week as a demonstration lab for undergraduate physics students, transforming aluminum into silicon using the thermal neutron-induced n-gamma reaction. Thermal neutron capture by 235U or 239Pu involves low-energy particles but it liberates tremendous amounts of energy.

I know you know that but a lot of people will be taken by the claim "without the use of high-energy nuclear physics". Laymen reading an article like this will be impressed by that statement in and of itself, when they probably should not be. I'm not disputing any of the claims of the people involved here as I have not looked into it too deeply, but I'm just saying throwing around buzzwords and technobabble probably doesn't help their case.

31 posted on 12/10/2012 7:21:05 AM PST by chimera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

I’m not sure I understand this concept, but I’ve wondered why used radioactive rods had to be stored away. IMHO, it seems that still “radioactive” energy may still be useful.

No?


32 posted on 12/10/2012 7:36:41 AM PST by wizr (Keep the Faith!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Great RJ
It is amazing that the global warming pseudo science gained wide acceptance despite strong evidence it does not exist and was based on manipulated data, while “ cold fusion” has far more credible research supporting it and has not been taken seriously.

Humans with half a brain will take it seriously, just as soon as it PROVES itself. Until then, the proponents like those mentioned are just charlatans begging to steal other people's money.

The Wright brothers did not need "claims" and "donations" and "investments". They built a machine that could fly. Shut up, build a model that works and can be copied with equally positive results, and THEN we can celebrate their brilliance.

And if it isn't about taking money, then whining about needing people to believe in your ideas is the most childish kind of non-science.

33 posted on 12/10/2012 7:48:20 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: wizr
Radioactivity is not what makes a nuclear reactor work. The dirty little secret is that, essentially, nuclear power plants do nothing more than boil water. The heat generated by two elements being put together is what boils the water. It just so happens that the most heat is generated by using radioactive elements.

However, once it has been "used up" (ie, it has changed to a new radioactive element after the heat-generating interaction with another element), the fact that they're radioactive does not help. In their new state, they don't help generate heat anymore. Therefore, they're useless as "nuclear fuel". Now they're just really interesting metals that also happen to be rather dangerous to most living things, due to that radioactivity.

(Warning: that is an over-simplified explanation, but hopefully it helps clarify the basics.)

34 posted on 12/10/2012 7:59:40 AM PST by Teacher317 ('Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
I have been watching the post on FR on this topic for years. nearly all end the same.

I have my doubts IF LENR will ever work, but I also keep an open mind to the possibility that someone will discover the unobtainium element required to make it work.

35 posted on 12/10/2012 8:00:29 AM PST by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: SunTzuWu; dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; ...

The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles

Keywords: ColdFusion; LENR; E-CAT; CMNS
business, news, extended, tech


http://ecatnews.com/?p=1144


36 posted on 12/10/2012 8:02:23 AM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
the criterion for validity is replication, which has been done,

Not so. The work of Lysenko, the Russian biology fraud, was replicated many times by other self-serving Russian biologists.

37 posted on 12/10/2012 8:04:44 AM PST by expat2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

This article is gibberish. The paragraphs appear to have been dropped in no particular order.


38 posted on 12/10/2012 8:06:15 AM PST by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wizr

Yes, of course, the used rods can be re-processed, where it is legal.


39 posted on 12/10/2012 8:22:29 AM PST by steve86 (Acerbic by Nature, not NurtureĀ™)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Paper issued, meetings held, conferences and “in depth discussions”, all are considered great progress but still nothing of use even on the most distant horizon.
And like the used car salesman, Rossi, without any cars to sell well hear of some great breakthrough consisting of nothing at all.

As a matter of research for its own sake, cold fusion passes the test, anything beyond that is obsessive hope.

And it's chickens that roost, not ducks.

40 posted on 12/10/2012 8:25:00 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: from occupied ga
"Anything that claims to generate nuclear reactions at chemical activation energy levels needs to be viewed with extreme scepticism."

It has been, and more than extreme. The science is now unquestionable. All the criteria that have been put forward for scientific proof have been satisfied (and more than satisfied). The pathological skeptics have been quite rapidly moving the goal posts to avoid having to admit they were wrong.

I suggest you read Beaudette's book and learn about that evidence instead of bloviating.

41 posted on 12/10/2012 8:37:34 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Triple
"As you are aware, that has little to do with the charade games played by Rossi. It is a shame that he was mentioned in the article. This article does not change one Iota of the possibility of fraudulent conduct on the part of Rossi."

Indeed. My point precisely. Whether Rossi is a fraud or not is now irrelevant to the scientific validity of LENR.

42 posted on 12/10/2012 8:39:33 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

Politics has caused profound damage to science many times before. Students should have it beat into their heads that consensus is NOT science, it’s politics.


43 posted on 12/10/2012 8:40:38 AM PST by TChris ("Hello", the politician lied.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: expat2
"Not so. The work of Lysenko, the Russian biology fraud, was replicated many times by other self-serving Russian biologists."

Your logic (and science) is flawed. Note the qualifier "Russian" (should actually be Communist). LENR has been replicated in many laboratories all over the world.

44 posted on 12/10/2012 8:44:43 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Politically Correct
You had me until this. Andrea Rossi is a complete fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!

Correct. If his device worked it would have been patented and produced for commercial use. He would have become the richest man on earth. HE IS A FRAUD AND THOSE THAT GIVE HIM MONEY ARE FOOLS!

45 posted on 12/10/2012 8:47:08 AM PST by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: count-your-change
"Paper issued, meetings held, conferences and “in depth discussions”, all are considered great progress but still nothing of use even on the most distant horizon."

"Something of use" is irrelevant to scientific validity. But nice try at moving the goal posts.

"And it's chickens that roost, not ducks."

As a farm boy who has raised both, I can guarantee you that ducks do indeed "roost", as do geese, guinea fowl, etc.

46 posted on 12/10/2012 8:52:37 AM PST by Wonder Warthog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
I suggest you read Beaudette's book and learn about that evidence instead of bloviating.

So anyone who disagrees with you is bloviating. What an arrogant attitude. Not content to simply disagree you have to work in an insult in your post as well. Tell me do you believe in 100 mpg carburetors?

47 posted on 12/10/2012 8:58:33 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
Photobucket

Wanna buy a used car powered by LENR?
48 posted on 12/10/2012 9:10:03 AM PST by ZX12R
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog

You are nuts to say that my “science is flawed”. I am a far better scientist that you can ever be.


49 posted on 12/10/2012 9:32:24 AM PST by expat2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Wonder Warthog
“As a matter of research for its own sake, cold fusion passes the test,...”

I've changed no goal posts, and the phrase is still “chickens come home to roost”, not ducks.

50 posted on 12/10/2012 9:34:01 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-164 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson