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Alinsky vs. Sun Tzu: How ancient strategy can be used against the Liberal Left.
Free Republic ^ | September 19, 2009 | Publius772000

Posted on 01/21/2013 10:12:36 AM PST by LucyT

Refresher Course:

"...Saul Alinsky has been discussed in such a matter-of-fact way that many casual observers have heard of him."

The following is a list of Alinsky’s 12 rules for upheaval:

RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”
RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”
RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.”
RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”

"Of these, Rules 4, 5, 8, and 12 have been used to greatest effect by the Left. In their war against the Constitution and traditional America, they have assailed, in turn, most of the great foundations of our society."

............................................


TOPICS: Education; Reference; Society
KEYWORDS: government; manipulation; politics
"Of these, Rules 4, 5, 8, and 12 have been used to greatest effect by the Left.

"In their war against the Constitution and traditional America, they have assailed, in turn, most of the great foundations of our society.

"They have removed God. They have made abortion mainstream. They have helped the tiny minority of gay and lesbian activists dictate policy to the majority.

"They have made millions dependent on government through social programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and now federal control of automakers, banks, energy, and health care. - Granted, some of these Leftist changes took place long before Alinsky, but his principles have been widely used by the 21st century brand of so-called progressives who look to take the next step."

1 posted on 01/21/2013 10:12:45 AM PST by LucyT
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To: LucyT

Alinsky is over rated. Half of that crap is obvious and the rest is plagiarized.


2 posted on 01/21/2013 10:17:09 AM PST by humblegunner
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To: LucyT

Speaking of Medicare, an expert on the Russian mafia stated on Varney & Co. FOX Business this morning, that the Russian mafia is very active in medicare fraud. How come our “transparent” government hasn’t mentioned this? Or maybe that was part of the “more flexability after the election” part.


3 posted on 01/21/2013 10:23:21 AM PST by Cold Heart
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To: Publius772000; cripplecreek; redpoll; Bikkuri; Candor7; MestaMachine; Rushmore Rocks; Oorang; ...
.

"Much has been made in recent political history of Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals. Bill Clinton reportedly followed Alinsky’s advice. Barack Obama taught a class on using Alinsky principles to keep the nation in chaos. After all, it’s easier to get radical policies enacted during a crisis. However, I assert that there is an older, much more battle-tested set of rules for warfare that are becoming more applicable to politics in the United States as the political arena begins to resemble the Roman Colosseum: The Art of War by Sun-Tzu."

4 posted on 01/21/2013 10:25:08 AM PST by LucyT (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: LucyT

I personally feel that rule number one has been pretty effective at demoralizing the right.

The reality is that we have at least as much power as the left and its growing. The GOP holds 3 branch majorities in 24 states while the democrats hold all 3 branches in 13 states. The states have shown some willingness to stand against Obama and our job is to weld them into a solid block to fight back.


5 posted on 01/21/2013 10:26:22 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: LucyT

Free Republic should spawn a private, invitation-only 24/7 think tank devoted to exploring this very idea.


6 posted on 01/21/2013 10:26:32 AM PST by PetroniusMaximus
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To: LucyT
Alinsky cut his teeth as a henchman for Al Capone. Really.

Alinsky dedicated "Rules for Radicals" to Lucifer. Really.

Obama taught "Alinsky Tactics 101" as a professor. Really.

STICK TO YOUR GUNS

7 posted on 01/21/2013 10:28:06 AM PST by SENTINEL (Kneel down to God. Stand up to tyrants. STICK TO YOUR GUNS !)
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To: LucyT
The implication here is that we may have to use these same tactics, which I am tending to agree. Civil disobedience has been too long associated with the left, but historically it has been used for for many just and right causes also.

The danger of the current left and the french revolution is that they were rebelling against what they didn't want. And it was bloody.

Our founding fathers were wise in having a very clear understanding of what they were working toward, which was their rights from God. People were not always pure in their ideology, but I think the evidence in our original documents speak.

We as conservatives here are not of like mind, and have little common ground, we are fractionalized. Balkenized if you prefer.

8 posted on 01/21/2013 10:28:45 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Lord save me from some conservatives, they don't understand human nature any better than liberals.)
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To: LucyT

I will add the following to your refresher course:

http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/ten-conservative-principles


9 posted on 01/21/2013 10:32:07 AM PST by PeterPrinciple ( Lord save me from some conservatives, they don't understand human nature any better than liberals.)
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To: All
Image and video hosting by TinyPic
10 posted on 01/21/2013 10:32:36 AM PST by LucyT (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: LucyT
I also suggest that people study up on guys like Edward Bernays, George Creel, and Walter Lippman. They were progressive propaganda pioneers of the 1920s forward. I suggest it because propaganda loses its effectiveness when you recognize it.

If we understand the mechanism and motives of the group mind, is it not possible to control and regiment the masses according to our will without their knowing about it? The recent practice of propaganda has proved that it is possible, at least up to a certain point and within certain limits.

-Bernays

The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.

-Bernays

In his 1965 autobiography, Bernays recalls a dinner at his home in 1933 where Karl von Wiegand, foreign correspondent of the Hearst newspapers, an old hand at interpreting Europe and just returned from Germany, was telling us about Goebbels and his propaganda plans to consolidate Nazi power. Goebbels had shown Wiegand his propaganda library, the best Wiegand had ever seen. Goebbels, said Wiegand, was using my book Crystallizing Public Opinion as a basis for his destructive campaign against the Jews of Germany. This shocked me. ... Obviously the attack on the Jews of Germany was no emotional outburst of the Nazis, but a deliberate, planned campaign.

----------------------------------------------

“function of news is to signalize an event, the function of truth is to bring to light the hidden facts, to set them in relation with each other, and make a picture of reality on which men can act.” A journalist’s version of the truth is subjective and limited to how he constructs his reality. The news, therefore, is “imperfectly recorded” and too fragile to bear the charge as “an organ of direct democracy.”

Walter Lippman

Early on Lippmann said the "bewildered herd," his way of referring to the masses, must be governed by “a specialized class whose interests reach beyond the locality." This class is composed of experts, specialists and bureaucrats. The experts, who often are referred to as "elites," were to be a machinery of knowledge that circumvents the primary defect of democracy, the impossible ideal of the "omnicompetent citizen".
11 posted on 01/21/2013 10:36:26 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Free Republic should spawn a private, invitation-only
24/7 think tank devoted to exploring this very idea.
it already exists...It's called The Heritage Foundation...

My tax return
I just received my tax return for 2011 back from the IRS. It puzzles me!!!
They are questioning how many dependents I claimed.
I guess it was because of my response to the question: “List all dependents?”
I replied: 12 million illegal immigrants;
3 million crack heads;
42 million unemployed people on food stamps,
2 million people in over 243 prisons;
Half of Mexico; and 535 persons in the U.S. House and Senate.”
1 useless President.
Evidently, this was NOT an acceptable answer.
I KEEP ASKING MYSELF, WHO DID I MISS?


12 posted on 01/21/2013 10:38:13 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (who'll take tomorrow,spend it all today;who can take your income,tax it all away..0'Bozo man can :-)
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To: LucyT

You mention Alinsky’s 12 Rules but nary a word about or from Sun Tzu yet your thread title is one versus the other. Where are the Sun Tzu principles?


13 posted on 01/21/2013 10:44:22 AM PST by miele man
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To: PeterPrinciple
We as conservatives here are not of like mind, and have little common ground, we are fractionalized. Balkenized if you prefer.

Compared to the left we're like a solid block of granite. As an example, the left consists of blacks who aren't fond of hispanics and hispanics who aren't fond of blacks and neither group cares about environmental groups or issues. You have your urban liberals who claim to care about the poor but only want others to sacrifice to help the poor while they themselves live in nice neighborhoods.

The stroke of genius in the Michigan RTW fight was bringing in pro union conservatives who supported RTW. When the support among union members hit 40% it triggered the legislation. Now the unions are caught in a divide among their own members that is only going to get worse.
14 posted on 01/21/2013 10:53:26 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Sounds like a fantastic idea. I’d love to read the group’s final report.


15 posted on 01/21/2013 10:59:54 AM PST by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: LucyT
Regardless of how the progressives planned it, Social Security and Medicare are no free ride, we each paid through the nose for the pittance returned.
16 posted on 01/21/2013 11:02:54 AM PST by X-spurt (Republic of Texas, Come and Take It!)
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To: LucyT
There is no way that the left are going to let us just "live and let live"....

....they are hell bent to forcing the Rush doctrine to be used eventually....

17 posted on 01/21/2013 11:12:44 AM PST by B.O. Plenty (Give war a chance........)
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To: miele man

miele man ~:” You mention Alinsky’s 12 Rules but nary a word about or from Sun Tzu yet your thread title is one versus the other. Where are the Sun Tzu principles? “

Agreed !
There is no Sun Tzu comparison

Saul D. Alinsky , a known communist community organizer used the above principles to effect change in resistant communities ,and aginst large commercial enterprizes . The above listed principles are enumerated in his book “Rules for Radicles “ .

Sun Tzu’s “ The Art of War “ is a tactical reference in physical and psychological aspects of warfare , and evaluating how to hurt the enemy the most , while minimizing your exposure to loss .
I would have liked to have seen how these two books can be applied
Perhaps the Sun Tzu portion is still yet forthcomming.. ?


18 posted on 01/21/2013 11:13:56 AM PST by Tilted Irish Kilt (Pay attention - the inmates ARE running the asylum!)
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt

bttt


19 posted on 01/21/2013 11:31:33 AM PST by ConservativeMan55
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To: PetroniusMaximus

FR is you, friend. Do it. Email is available for private contact and communications.


20 posted on 01/21/2013 11:32:35 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (Better the devil we can destroy than the Judas we must tolerate.)
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To: miele man

Here are a couple that I use.

“Understand yourself and understand your opponents, and in one hundred battles, you will not be defeated.”

“The battle is won or lost before the first arrow is fired.”


21 posted on 01/21/2013 11:55:53 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: miele man

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html

Here you go. It is quite a long read.


22 posted on 01/21/2013 11:59:53 AM PST by bergmeid (I told you so - now pass the ammo.)
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To: miele man

“The Art of War” is actually quite short, but it is hard to find a translation which does not include voluminous commentary.


23 posted on 01/21/2013 12:17:17 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
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24 posted on 01/21/2013 12:24:21 PM PST by ctdonath2 (End of debate. Your move.)
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To: blueunicorn6
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.


25 posted on 01/21/2013 12:26:44 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ctdonath2; All
http://suntzusaid.com/
26 posted on 01/21/2013 12:29:06 PM PST by fattigermaster
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To: All

It’s not really a long read as I recall, having read it several years ago.

Every GOP candidate should read it and become familiar with it, as well as Alinsky’s rules as one of the main tenants of the Art of War is to know your enemy and their tactics.

Example: Obama will give a speech where he will ask a rhetorical question and then answer it with two false choices, with the most reasonable answer supporting his argument.

This tactic is used over and over, yet the GOP never seems to catch on to this easily defeatable tactic.


27 posted on 01/21/2013 2:05:41 PM PST by Rodney Dangerfield ("Don't ya just hate waiting in line at the Post Office? - Just wait until ObamaCare is implemented.")
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To: LucyT

Dallas - “Real power is something you take!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGdfPtW56fo


28 posted on 01/21/2013 2:27:04 PM PST by LZ_Bayonet ( I AM THE TEA PARTY LEADER !)
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To: cripplecreek

Problem is, there are no capitalist governments willing to pay millions of we conservatives to do this. Unlike the commies.

We attempt to repel the enemy for free. Volunteer armies only work when total devastation of the enemy is not only OK but the goal.

Sun Tzu couldn’t imagine the kind of battlefield we face now.


29 posted on 01/21/2013 2:46:04 PM PST by txhurl
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To: txhurl

There are a lot of things we can do on our own.

Planting the seeds of dissent is a personal favorite. I leave comments after Detroit news articles all the time. When Detroiters are complaining about the lack of police, I point to Ann Arbor where the liberals couldn’t decide to build a fountain or pay more firemen. I suggest that its kinda funny how Ann Arbor liberals have all this excess money and concern for the poor, yet aren’t real forthcoming with the cash.

I take special pleasure in pointing out that “Obama didn’t bring no bacon” on his last trip to Detroit. Instead he came to Michigan to try to protect his union friends and utterly failed PLUS ignoring the call for bacon.

Play their own games back against them.


30 posted on 01/21/2013 3:04:05 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

I’m jaded, but the soap and ballot box solutions have been stolen from us in broad daylight. So....


31 posted on 01/21/2013 3:27:29 PM PST by txhurl
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To: SENTINEL
Hillary Clinton's senior thesis was on the Alinsky model of fighting.

-PJ

32 posted on 01/21/2013 3:32:56 PM PST by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: Rodney Dangerfield
Example: Obama will give a speech where he will ask a rhetorical question and then answer it with two false choices, with the most reasonable answer supporting his argument.

He uses strawmen and the GOP should be quick to point them out and offer their own real answer.
33 posted on 01/21/2013 3:35:02 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Tilted Irish Kilt; miele man

Check this out:

http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html


34 posted on 01/21/2013 7:52:12 PM PST by LucyT (In the 20th century 200 million people were killed by their own governments.)
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To: LucyT

Machiavelli says: ‘Yo what am I chopped liver here?’


35 posted on 01/21/2013 8:30:35 PM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! [You can vote Democrat when you're dead]...)
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sfl


36 posted on 01/22/2013 5:48:56 AM PST by phockthis (http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm ...)
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