Posted on 05/14/2013 11:12:15 PM PDT by rmlew
PS. Is there a Jewish Freeper list? We need one.
Jews were persecuted in the Soviet Union for the same reason they were in Nazi Germany: they were successful in business. But the Soviets had a far greater hatred for Entrepeneurism than the Nazis. And they disguised their mistreatment of them in more creative ways. Instead of just killing them, they “deported” them. Do you know what that really means? Putting them in buses disguised as cargo vehicles and dumping them into the most inhospitable regions of Siberia that could be found, by orders of Lenin and later Stalin. Stalin used slightly more direct means of massacre, but the result was just the same. Death by starvation, the elements, sometimes by outright torture of whole towns. The forced collectivism used any means necessary to collect and instead of redistribute according to true communist dogma, sell for profit on the international market. Jews suffered no worse than Christians, but unlike Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union was very successful at hiding its crimes against humanity. Even to this day communists are not regarded with the same level of evil as Nazis.
The Soviets would have been far less successful against the rebellions if they had not already disarmed the public, by the way. Another lesson liberals refuse to learn. The army was armed to the teeth, the poor with pitch forks, at best.
The PLC was home to 60% of world Jewry and Jews were free to not only practice but expand their religion -- this was where Chassidism originated and also devout "Lithuanian Jews" or Litvaks
Until the Russian grab of PLC lands, they had next to no Jews, but they suddenly got a huge chunk of Jewish people (if you look at a map of Jews in Tsarist russia in 1910, this coincides exactly with the PLC -- this was called the Russian "Pale of Settlement" where Jews were "kept" -- they were not allowed to move out and their conditions were bad (though arguably the life of most non-elite in the Tsarist state was bad)
Incidently this "pale of settlement" was also the location of the "killing lands" in the Second World War when not only 6 million Jews but also 6 million Poles and Lithuanians and at least 6 to 10 million Ukrainians, Belarussians and Russians died, plus Germans and Roma etc.
The PLC was home to 60% of world Jewry and Jews were free to not only practice but expand their religion -- this was where Chassidism originated and also devout "Lithuanian Jews" or Litvaks
Until the Russian grab of PLC lands, they had next to no Jews, but they suddenly got a huge chunk of Jewish people (if you look at a map of Jews in Tsarist russia in 1910, this coincides exactly with the PLC -- this was called the Russian "Pale of Settlement" where Jews were "kept" -- they were not allowed to move out and their conditions were bad (though arguably the life of most non-elite in the Tsarist state was bad)
Incidently this "pale of settlement" was also the location of the "killing lands" in the Second World War when not only 6 million Jews but also 6 million Poles and Lithuanians and at least 6 to 10 million Ukrainians, Belarussians and Russians died, plus Germans and Roma etc.
Anyway, so Jews were treated bad, but then they had pogroms against them, so life became unbearable. At the same time rising national consciousness meant that Russians tried to make everyone Russian (and the English did the same to the Welsh, etc. etc) so there was Jewish resistance to this in the form of Zionism
however some people of Jewish origin went the opposite way, rejecting Judaism not only religiously but also culturally -- they embraced the heady winds of socialism and then communism along with many other groups of people.
Some of the best thinkers were of these -- including Tolstoy
Tolstoy was the guy who saved the USSR in 1919 --> when the Bolsheviks came to power, they liquidated the army officers. But then they discovered that without officers they could not fight the White Russian army in the murderous Russian civil war. And officers who joined were liable to switch sides immediately. Tolstoy came up with dual command - officers and commisars
But he had a big rival in his affections for power -- Stalin
With Tolstoy's fall in the 20s and then Stalin's death in 1954, the latent wicked anti-semitism arose.
Tolstoy = Trotsky?
Not only the Jews but all others imprisoned in the Soviet state.
Not really true. Guy apparently can't tell the difference between bad and really, really bad. Between oppression and extermination.
The commies were plenty efficient when really focused on killing a particular group. They killed a much larger number of people in total, but a much smaller number of Jews than the Nazis, which indicates not inefficiency on their part, but rather a much lesser degree of intention to kill Jews, as such. Most Jews in USSR were killed not because they were Jews but because they were enemies of the People for some other reason.
It also should be pointed out that Jews formed a very disproportionate percentage of those who most aggressively supported Communism and helped bring it to power and keep it there.
Thanks rmlew.
What many people don’t realize is that much of the Soviet leadership was also Jewish. These can be described as progressives. Just as today, many progressive Jews are communist sympathizers and support the destruction of Israel.
The communists persecuted Judaism and Jews in every country they held power.
Some of the best thinkers were of these -- including Tolstoy
Count Tolstoy was not Jewish. He was a boyar, Russian nobility by birth.
You are thinking of Lev Bernstien, AKA Trotsky.
I don’t know of one. Both SJackson and ZC have something that is pretty close, I think.
Not sure if I’d want a pure Jewish Ping list. Bit creepy being on lists.
Chassidism was created in halicz which was in the commonwealth you are correct
Read posts #9, 11, 13.
Jews were integral part of Russian society for a thousand years.
And it is actually absolutely wrong to present antisemitism as an ethnic-Russian feature.
In fact antisemitism as any viable phenomenon has really appeared with including Poland as a subject of Russian Empire and it was actually learnt from backward element of Polish society.
Interesting fact: there are popular Russian-Jewish surnames Kamenev and Zinoviev. Both Kamen and Zinov were a towns on a border between Moscovia and Poland before a Russian Empire appeared. Moscovia was a popular destination for Jews seeking refuge from persecution in Europe. They had to pass through these towns and get documented by Russian officials and have their new names. Millions of people made through it since 16th century.
It also worth mentioning that some 90% of infamous ‘Russian’ pogroms happened in that is known as either Poland or Ukraine now.
It is also true that Tsarist government adopted Polish practice by late 19th century and openly encouraged pogroms using propaganda like ‘elders’ protocols’ etc. They fond it was a nice idea to blame the Jews for everything to distract illiterate population from their own mismanagement and corruption. It was a first wave of Russian state-sponsored antisemitism finished in 1917 with Communist takeover.
And for that very reason it is not surprising that the Jews spearheaded communist uprising against the Tsar and made almost 100% of Soviet government and elites. It hasn’t actually change much under Stalin who pushed to make antisemitism a capital crime under Soviet criminal code.
All of the above made German Nazis believe that Soviet Union was a kind of criminal enterprise of Jewish bosses who fooled Russians into slave labor using Communism to build industrial and military base for ‘Zionist conspiracy’ to start global takeover. This idea was even made public in famous ‘Total crieg’ speech by Goebels following Stalingrad disaster.
Another of only two waves of Russian state-sponsored antisemitism has actually started in late 1940s and finished in 1953. It is actually linked to a Stalin’s broken expectations to see Israel becoming a Socialist state.
IOW, you’re an apologist for Stalin and Soviet Communism, blaming Poland for Russian anti-semitism, and (in your last sentence) ISRAEL for Stalin’s anti-Jewish actions. Why are you even on FR?
>>IOW, you’re an apologist for Stalin and Soviet Communism, blaming Poland for Russian anti-semitism, and (in your last sentence) ISRAEL for Stalin’s anti-Jewish actions. Why are you even on FR?<<
Why have you said this?
First, I’m not blaming Poland but a few bad people in Poland who actually started with pogroms. Were they Russians who did it mostly in Poland and Ukraine?
Second I’m neither apologies for Stalin nor blame Israel and never said a thing like that. Israel did a right choice. I just said Stalin didn’t like it and it leaded him to start an antisemitic purges in Russia and Eastern Europe but it doesn’t make Israel’s choice wrong.
“Did” a right choice? “Leaded” him...?
I doubt English is your first language. ( Hm?....Suspicious!)
I hope you got what I mean. Stalin was a sick bastard, like any paranoid he was ‘leaded’ by different things.
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