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Why a Third Party Help Republicans
Vanity | July 2, 2013 | EqAndyBuzz

Posted on 07/02/2013 8:17:08 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz

If Conservatives break away from the Republican party, the big winner are Republicans.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: conservative; democrat; liberal; randsconcerntrolls; republican
My liberal next door neighbor and I, over a glass of scotch were discussing politics, as we usually do when we get together. Discussing gun control, the sequester and gay marriage, he asked me my thoughts on the repercussions to Republicans if Sarah Palin and the Conservatives form a third party.

Everything I have heard about a third party is that if Conservatives form a third party, Republicans will never win another election. I asked my inebriated neighbor if he ever heard that before and he said that this is what Democrats hope for, him included.

His wife comes into the room, pours herself a scotch and joins in. "We hate Sarah Palin and only wish that she forms another party. This is the perfect opportunity for the Republicans to destroy themselves." I was about to tell my neighbor that his wife is ugly and dresses funny, but reason got the better of me, so I began. My next door neighbor Bill owns 25 guns, not including his hunting rifles which he says has nothing to do with the second amendment. He is a proud member of the NRA. Bill believes that Obama's 100 million dollar trip is a waste of taxpayer money and that the money he spent could have kept kids coming to Washington to see the Capitol and other buildings closed by the sequester. Bill also thinks that we are too much in debt and we have to reduce the deficit by cutting spending. Bill doesn't care about gay marriage or abortion. He said he understands why these right wing whackos (take a bow EQ) are against it. But he also says it is between that person and God and when they get to the pearly gates they will have to answer for that. And he likes Hillary and thought she should have beaten Obama, who he voted for...twice. Finally, Bill owns a hybrid.

My final question to Bill was, "If the Republican Party didn't have a "Right Wing" who would you vote for?" He says he would vote Republican and the only reason he votes Democrat is because the Republicans are too far to the right.

I thought about this for a while. How many Bill’s are out there? How many people consider themselves Democrats because Republicans are too far to the right? How many people are single issue voters who vote Democrat when they really are Republican?

So I came up with this thought. There are three groups of voters. There are Conservatives and everyone else to the left of them liberals, except the Socialists and Marxists who make up the base of the Democrat party. In the middle you have the moderates. These are a combination of Democrats and Republicans who will vote for the lesser of the two evils. Then why would they vote Democrat?

Look at the Republican primaries. What is happening? Well, the media, along with the Democrat and Republican strategists via whatever works gets rid of the most Conservative candidates. These are the candidates who given the opportunity to get into the general win 49 states. They finally get a Romney, a McCain, a Dole who Democrats with the help of the MSM, label as too radical and out of touch with the mainstream. Because of that, the moderates from both parties choose the Democrat. (My friend Bill)

Then the question becomes, if the Conservatives break away, how does this affect the Republicans in a negative light? Then the thought about Amnesty hit me. If Conservatives break away, the moderates from both parties now get to see what the left is really doing to America and what things like Amnesty, Obamacare and Climate Change really mean. They get to see the mess because the left will no longer have a straw man for the media hounds to attack.

What happens is the whole dynamic of the electorate will change. Instead of everyone moving to the left, they will now move to the right, isolating the far left, who do not have enough votes in the base to win elections. Republicans who consider themselves Conservative will move to the right. Moderates from both parties will vote Republican as it will still be a liberal party. This leaves 10-15% of the Socialists, Marxists, labor unions and the radical organizations to scramble for a footing.

With this I humbly submit that Ms. Palin along with the best and brightest minds of Conservatives everywhere create that Freedom Party. Let the liberals come under the Republican tent. Force the leftist loons to expose themselves. And if the Republicans need us, they know where we are. They just have to be prepared to give us a platform where our ideas will lead this country back to prominence.

1 posted on 07/02/2013 8:17:08 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz
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To: EQAndyBuzz

I think he claims to vote democrat because his wife is a freak in bed. That’s also why he tolerates her rude behavior. A real lady would enter the room and wait for a real man to offer her a drink. If no man offers her a drink then there are no real men in the room.


2 posted on 07/02/2013 8:21:13 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

2 words.

Ross. Perrot.


3 posted on 07/02/2013 8:22:32 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: EQAndyBuzz

It sure helped the GOP in 1992 and 1996. Bubba won those with 43% and 49% of the vote.


4 posted on 07/02/2013 8:22:58 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Who cares if it helps or hurts Republicans?


5 posted on 07/02/2013 8:28:28 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
He says he would vote Republican and the only reason he votes Democrat is because the Republicans are too far to the right.

If he didn't vote for Romney, your neighbor is BS!

6 posted on 07/02/2013 8:29:22 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

Yes, I will continue to vote for the RINO du jour, better than the alternative I guess. But we will continue to see the same results, in 2014...2016...2018.....


7 posted on 07/02/2013 8:30:22 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
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To: Rodamala

You beat me to it. The poster must be a Bill Clinton supporter.


8 posted on 07/02/2013 8:33:23 PM PDT by entropy12 (Even tho Obama is now a lame duck, with 2014 House majority, he will be a dangerously socialist!)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
Errr, what? Too many words. Lol

I, for one, am getting tired of getting betrayed by the Republicans. I'm getting to the point where I no longer wish to have an affiliation with the traitor party. At this point, there is little difference between the parties. Burn this bitch to the ground and start up another party.

If there a no longer enough people left in this country that believe in freedom and personal responsibility, than so be it.

9 posted on 07/02/2013 8:35:16 PM PDT by The Iceman Cometh (Proud Teabagging Barbarian Terrorist Hobbit Crazy Cracker Son-of-a-Bitch!)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

of course, they then get to be democrats.


10 posted on 07/02/2013 8:37:37 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Rodamala

You saved me from having to read past your comment.

FU Ross Perot, and FU Judge that unsealed Jack Ryan’s divorce records for zero.


11 posted on 07/02/2013 8:38:12 PM PDT by txhurl (RNC 'voter suppression': attempting to limit each voter to ONE vote!)
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To: USNBandit

No...1992 and 1996 was a reflection of the GOPE weaknesses. H.W. Bush lost the Reagan Coalition by abandoning the base that 4 years before gave him an landslide victory. Same with Dole in 1996, Clinton won with less than 25% of eligible voters....many didn’t care for Bill and many didn’t care for Dole, so they sat out of the election. People want to just as much vote FOR someone as much as vote against someone.


12 posted on 07/02/2013 8:39:02 PM PDT by Bigtigermike
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To: entropy12

NO, Andy is not, he’s a disgusted Texan like a lot of us.

Just primary ALL the RINO MFs and make the gop-e go trying to start IT’S own third party.


13 posted on 07/02/2013 8:41:48 PM PDT by txhurl (RNC 'voter suppression': attempting to limit each voter to ONE vote!)
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To: txhurl

I like your attitude. THAT’S how we get it done.


14 posted on 07/02/2013 8:45:12 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

This is a pipe dream to believe that the moderate democrats will vote Republican if the Republicans are more moderate.

This is the exact message the GOP-e and RINOs have been telegraphing all along and if fails every time.

If it works so damn well when our idiots move toward the center why aren’t they bringing democrats over to vote for them? Ain’t gonna happen. two parties or three. it will not occur.

Somebody here is trying to be smarter than they actually are. Not impressed.


15 posted on 07/02/2013 8:45:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

The author mentions Amnesty. What happens when the voters see that it is the GOP AND Democrats that are betraying them? The Right, which the last time I saw figures makes up 1/2 - 2/3 of GOP voters, is not going to be replaced by enough squishy Dims/Moderates to give them a victory. When presented by a liberal Democrat(Obama) and a liberal Republican(Romney, McCain), they vote for the real thing every time.


16 posted on 07/02/2013 8:47:34 PM PDT by Ingtar (Everyone complains about the weather, but only Liberals try to legislate it.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

And before someone says “because conservatives won’t be republicans so they won’t be afraid to vote republican”,

what the hell lately have conservatives won via the national RNC? Bullsquat. Boner purged a bunch from power. That’s what we won lately. We got duped by Rubio pretending to be conservative when he’s a freaking liberal hack. That’s what we won. We aren’t setting agendas for anything. The GOP-e is in total reaction mode, not taking the offense on absolutely anything. That’s what we won lately.

Bullsquat.

There is no difference in or out of the party. We have zero influence there. NOthing conservatives want is getting done. They could vote Republican the last two years without worrying the GOP would drag them further right.


17 posted on 07/02/2013 8:49:41 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

You need a better class of friends.


18 posted on 07/02/2013 8:54:09 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Rodamala

perot wasn’t a solid Conservative


19 posted on 07/02/2013 8:58:19 PM PDT by stickywillie (how come there are no father-in-law jokes?)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Boehner is a BIG problem. He MUST GO NOW. Don’t wait for him to enable a vote for Obama’s Amnesty.

F&F, AP, IRS, NSA, Bengahzi, and Boehner’s #1 priority: Obama’s Amnesty. The man is jackass traitor to his party and a disloyal American. DUMP HIM NOW. DON’T WAIT. THE DAMAGE CAN NEVER BE UNDONE.

DUMP BOEHNER!


20 posted on 07/02/2013 9:00:06 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: Ray76

Hey, you saw Rubio fold like a cheap sombrero? It’s not hard shootin anymore.

Every RINO - to their demise [even RYAN!!] - has shown their cards and they will pay.

Baptism by fire.


21 posted on 07/02/2013 9:01:37 PM PDT by txhurl (RNC 'voter suppression': attempting to limit each voter to ONE vote!)
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To: Ray76
DUMP BOEHNER

Save America


22 posted on 07/02/2013 9:02:43 PM PDT by Ray76 (Do you reject Obama? And all his works? And all his empty promises?)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

NO


23 posted on 07/02/2013 9:03:20 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
I'm the national chairman of a nascent "third" party, America's Party, but some may be surprised to hear that I am really fundamentally anti-party. As I like to say, I'm not a Republican. I'm not a Democrat. I'm an American. We're partisans only for America's founding principles.

Our Constitution doesn't mention parties, so in other words, this party-dominated system is fundamentally extra-constitutional.

Our first reference point on this subject for years has been the strong warnings issued to posterity by our first, and best, President, in his Farewell Address:

"I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the State, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party generally.

This spirit, unfortunately, is inseparable from our nature, having its root in the strongest passions of the human mind. It exists under different shapes in all governments, more or less stifled, controlled, or repressed; but, in those of the popular form, it is seen in its greatest rankness, and is truly their worst enemy.

The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty.

Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight), the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.

It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.

There is an opinion that parties in free countries are useful checks upon the administration of the government and serve to keep alive the spirit of liberty. This within certain limits is probably true; and in governments of a monarchical cast, patriotism may look with indulgence, if not with favor, upon the spirit of party. But in those of the popular character, in governments purely elective, it is a spirit not to be encouraged. From their natural tendency, it is certain there will always be enough of that spirit for every salutary purpose. And there being constant danger of excess, the effort ought to be by force of public opinion, to mitigate and assuage it. A fire not to be quenched, it demands a uniform vigilance to prevent its bursting into a flame, lest, instead of warming, it should consume."

-- President George Washington, 1796

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

-- President John Adams


24 posted on 07/02/2013 9:06:13 PM PDT by EternalVigilance
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To: stickywillie
perot wasn’t a solid Conservative

Nope...But he was solidly pro America...I believe we as a Nation would be far better off without Nafta, the WTO and the NWO...

25 posted on 07/02/2013 9:12:13 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Rodamala

Not this time—this will be a movement beyond any one persons ego. It will bring sweeping change to the body politic. In the end the GOP will need to change of go the way of the Whigs.


26 posted on 07/02/2013 9:21:27 PM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

A conservative third party would destroy the GOP within 2 election cycles. Without having to cater to conservatives, the GOP would lurch further left, until they reached a position midway between a true Conservative party and the Democrats. AT THAT POINT, the party will be shorn apart from both ends of the political spectrum.

The American Public would spew the lukewarm GOP out. You can’t straddle the fence and lead the charge at the same time.

The GOP would be dead within two elections cycles if Conservatives were willing to leave en masse.

The only thing left is a face of the new Conservative Party strong enough to bring along enough supporters to get the ball rolling. Palin and Levin followed shortly thereafter by the likes of Cruz and Gohmert would be enough.

The GOP will not survive the coming desertion of its base. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving group of plotters.


27 posted on 07/02/2013 9:32:16 PM PDT by ziravan (Choose sides. You too, NSA snoop.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

republicans pushing the same policies as democrats

0bamacare pushed thru.. no effort to repeal

republicans have controlled the house.. the spending... for two years... no cut in spending rate

now we’re going to get amnesty

if you vote republican, you might as well vote dem


28 posted on 07/02/2013 9:34:02 PM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: EternalVigilance
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

— President John Adams
That illustrates why Adams is my one of my two favorite Presidents (Coolidge is the other).
29 posted on 07/02/2013 9:43:23 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
Fail.

And if the Republicans need us, they know where we are.

When, why, and how would that ever happen?

30 posted on 07/02/2013 9:51:18 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Rodamala
Okay...since we're dropping names, I'll drop some for you:

Bush the First (gave us Klinton)
Dole
Bush the Second (gave us the Obammunist)
Insane McCain
Mittens

Yeah buddy...the GOP establishment has a great track record the last few decades, don't they?

But go ahead, nominate Christie the Hutt or Jeb Bush, and see what that gets us...another Klinton in the WH.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

31 posted on 07/02/2013 10:06:54 PM PDT by wku man (Amnesty? No Way, Jose (No Se Puede!) by 10 Pound Test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsTUQ8yOI2c)
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To: EQAndyBuzz
The GOPe and the Libertarians can have the Republican party. Americans no matter what they have called themselves in the past are clamoring for a Conservative party that espouses Reagan's three legged stool approach fiscal. religious,defense conservatives.

Create that and the people will follow..

32 posted on 07/02/2013 10:07:00 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
....."Look at the Republican primaries. What is happening? Well, the media, along with the Democrat and Republican strategists via whatever works gets rid of the most Conservative candidates.

Thanks to Mitt Romney and his millions did that in 2012; Juan McCain, with the help of Rove, did that in 2008!

Many conservatives who watched that happen, stayed home on the first Tuesday in November, 2012, fewer did in '08 solely because of Sarah Palin!

33 posted on 07/02/2013 10:13:42 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

If conservatives break away from the Republican Party, the big losers are Republicans, but the big winners are conservatives.


34 posted on 07/02/2013 10:41:12 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

The Freedom Party will finally put the GOP to rest.


35 posted on 07/02/2013 10:41:44 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: txhurl

I have no problem at all to primary RINO’s. I do have a serious problem with replacing the RINO’s with loser candidate with result a democRAT wins and it is 10 times worst.

As an example I supported Cruz during the primaries because I liked his speaking ability. My hunch said he could win in the general. Please no more candidates like Akin and Hoffman.


36 posted on 07/02/2013 10:46:39 PM PDT by entropy12 (Even tho Obama is now a lame duck, with 2014 House majority, he will be a dangerously socialist!)
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To: ziravan

“The only thing left is a face of the new Conservative Party strong enough to bring along enough supporters to get the ball rolling. Palin and Levin followed shortly thereafter by the likes of Cruz and Gohmert would be enough.”

I can’t see Levin ever leaving the Republican party. Hope I’m wrong. But even though he rants and yells and calls the RINO republicans he doesn’t like silly childish names, he is again going to be telling us he would vote for that orange juice can before he would vote for Hillary and exhorting us all to vote for Jeb Bush in 2016. He said Monday he doesn’t think 3rd party is the answer.


37 posted on 07/02/2013 11:29:17 PM PDT by Reddon
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To: EternalVigilance
I am convinced that media, the news papers of the day during our founding years post Constitution, invented party labels and it caught on with everyone wanting to be identified as a (blank) or a (blankity blank)...

I am not so sure that we can just eliminate the idea, because it's almost a natural thing to want to be part of a group. Humans are pack animals....most of them anyway.

Some of us are lone wolves...I qualify for that as do you, as do most humans who lead rather than follow..but everyone can't lead so we have parties..

38 posted on 07/02/2013 11:42:46 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Cold Heat

You could not be more wrong historically. The newspapers of the day were founded and funded by the political parties, not the other way around. The parties were a creation of the founding fathers themselves. If you are looking for the culprits, the three most responsible were Jefferson, Madison, and Hamilton, two who authored the Federalist Papers.


39 posted on 07/03/2013 5:33:42 AM PDT by gusty
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

This is absurd. A third party will take votes away from Republicans. Period. End of Paragraph. End of Story. End of Book. Don’t delude yourself.


40 posted on 07/03/2013 5:54:00 AM PDT by WashingtonSource
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To: Ray76
who cares if it helps or hurts Republicans

The ptb in the Cheap Labor/Globalist/Corporate Party don't even want to win. They just want enough of their own elected so they can be the fake opposition and barter their support for profit and power.

The only way constitutional conservatives win is if a new party advocates localism. Pass laws that clearly don't violate the constitution on state and federal levels that re-focus government to being as close to the people who are governed as possible.

41 posted on 07/03/2013 5:59:17 AM PDT by grania
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To: WashingtonSource

Your response has nothing to do with my comment. I posted comment number two. Take your argument up with the original poster.


42 posted on 07/03/2013 7:31:17 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Jim from C-Town

He’s my neighbor. And he gets premium time at the range.


43 posted on 07/03/2013 7:51:31 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz (The reason we own guns is to protect ourselves from those wanting to take our guns from us.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Move to a better neighborhood. That one seems to be infested with rats.


44 posted on 07/03/2013 9:13:25 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town; EQAndyBuzz

Of course, I live in Cleveland, my Congress critter is Marxist Marcie Kaptor and not one member of the City Council is a Republican, so my neighborhood is also infiltrated with rats.

I think we may be in the midst of a rat invasion!


45 posted on 07/03/2013 9:25:50 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: gusty
I was not including the Federalist movement as a political party..I believe it to be a natural grouping of people who shared the same views either Federalist or anti-federalist, there were other groups as well, but they were not called parties. I believe they were considered to be temporary and related to the immediate arguments about the Constitution...

I don't see these various groups as anything more then pro-war or anti war....pro British or anti British and on and on we go...

You can argue this stuff to death but it was the media that put a fire under the process of expanding these groups of anti and pro into the named parties we have today as well as the new ones that keep popping up from time to time.

Without the media, this expansion would not have occurred in the way it did and it would have been much slower. I believe this is the basis for the long held belief that the media is necessary for the republic that resulted in the inclusion of language about it's importance in the constitution giving it protection.

Pre-constitution the men who we would call the Media had strong opinions...yes...but to say the newspapers were all created by political parties is in my view, exaggeration. Prior to the constitution these same newspapers were either pro-British or anti British...pro-revolution.....anti-revolution. But parties had not been thought of, much less written about as parties....there were opinions, shared via the papers reach in circulation. If You did not like the opinions, you bought a different paper and the Federalist arguments were part of the development and predecessor of the letter to the editor. Or the Editorial.

The way I see it, it was not until after the Constitution was written and ratified and the smash and burn retaliations had stopped against the fledgling government and the founders, that political opinions were better organized by use of the media and Political Parties, with the express intent of electing representatives gelled into a process as opposed to opinions...

That is what I was trying to say....so I expanded the thought....but having put my opinion on paper, so to speak, I cannot find another way that this could have occurred and resulted in a better system....Democracy at the local level has to be messy. Groups must form to create majorities and minority opinion. Political parties then result and that is not the fault of Jefferson, Madison or Hamilton. Those that warned against political parties were naïve in my view..

It is the way you do it when you don't want a King.

46 posted on 07/03/2013 9:29:55 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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