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U.S. FLIERS DOWN 102 NAZI PLANES IN BLOW AT MUENSTER RAIL HUB (10/11/43)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 10/11/43 | Frederick Graham, Milton Bracker, Herbert L. Matthews, Robert Trumbull, Hanson W. Baldwin

Posted on 10/11/2013 4:44:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 10/11/2013 4:44:08 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Soviet Summer and Fall Offensives: Operations, 17 July-1 December 1943
Allied Advance to Volturno River, Reorganization, and Attack on Gustav Line (17 January-11 May 1944)
The Far East and the Pacific, 1941: Status of Forces and Allied Theater Boundaries, 2 July 1942
India-Burma, 1942: Allied Lines of Communication, 1942-1943
New Guinea and Alamo Force Operations: Clearing the Huon Peninsula and Securing the Straits, 19 September 1943-26 April 1944
Cartwheel, the Seizure of the Gilberts and Marshalls, and Concurrent Air and Naval Operations, 30 June 1943-26 April 1944
2 posted on 10/11/2013 4:44:37 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The first of these excerpts is continued from yesterday.

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Winston S. Churchill, Closing the Ring

3 posted on 10/11/2013 4:45:16 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
We Lose 32 Craft (Graham) – 2
Planes from Africa Bomb Greece, Crete and Rhodes (Bracker) – 3-4
Italy Drive Gains – 4-5
Victorious Doughboys Advancing through Captured Italian Town (photo) – 5
Time Bomb Kills Twelve in Naples Just before Clark Goes to Mass (Matthews) – 6
War News Summarized – 6
Russians Win Hill West of Dnieper – 7
61 Enemy Planes Wrecked at Wake (Trumbull) – 8-9
U.S. Forces Occupy Vila in Solomons – 9
Eaker Forecasts Channel Invasion – 9
Lieut. Winant Lost in Muenster Blow – 11
Pacific Strategy-I (Baldwin) – 11
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the Fighting in Various War Zones – 12-13
Churchill and Eden Confer with Sforza, Whose Arrival in Algiers is Expected Soon – 13
4 posted on 10/11/2013 4:46:23 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1943/oct1943/f11oct43.htm

British army in Italy regrouping
Monday, October 11, 1943 www.onwar.com

General Montgomery commanding British 8th Army [photo at link]

In Italy... The British 8th Army (Montgomery) regroups. Both 5th and 13th Corps are now deployed at the front.

On the Eastern Front... Soviet forces capture Novobelitsa on the outskirts of Gomel.


5 posted on 10/11/2013 4:47:26 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.etherit.co.uk/month/thismonth/11.htm

October 11th, 1943 (MONDAY)

UNITED KINGDOM: Corvette HMCS Mimico (ex-HMS Bullrush) launched Sunderland. Built by John Crown and Sons Ltd. Revised Flower Class (Increased Endurance) 970 tons, 208.3x33x11ft 16kts, crew 6/79,1-4in, 1-2pdr, 2-20mm, hedgehog. Renamed Sep 43. Post WW.II, sold 1950, renamed Olympic Victor, whale catcher, sold 1956, renamed Otori Maru No 12; 1962 renamed Kyo Maru No 25. Last noted 1977-78.

GERMANY: U-821 is commissioned.

POLAND: The last train of deportees to be gassed at Sobibor arrives at the camp.

U.S.S.R.: Novobelitsa on the outskirts of Gomel is liberated by the Soviets.

ITALY: The British V and XIII Corps are now in the line of the 8th Army. They pause while Montgomery finishes his reorganization plans.

In the British Eighth Army area, a gap is developing between the 78th Division on the Adriatic coast and the Canadian 1st Division, and General Bernard Montgomery, General Officer Commanding Eighth Army, regroups the units: Corps, with 78th Division and Indian 8th Division under command, is given responsibility for the right flank; XIII Corps is to advance on a two division front, employing the Canadian 1st and British 5th Divisions; the New Zealand 2nd Division, which is to concentrate in the Taranto area by mid-November, is to be held in army reserve.

USAAF XII Air Support Command and Northwest Tactical Bomber Force operations are cancelled or aborted due to weather, but RAF Desert Air Force fighters hit trains, trucks, and gun positions near Montesilvano and Vasto.

During the night of 11/12 October, 52 RAF Bomber of No. 205 (Heavy Bomber) Group hit the Coast Road at Terricina.

GREECE: On the Greek island of Corfu in the Ionian Sea, USAAF XII Bomber Command B-25 Mitchells bomb Garitsa Airfield while P-38 Lightnings hit a vessel in Corfu harbor.

YUGOSLAVIA: Partisans battle to within 23 miles (37.0 km) of Belgrade and raid Zagreb, Croatia’s capital.

MEDITERRANEAN SEA: XII Bomber Command B-25 Mitchells bomb Garitsa Airfield, Greece and P-38s hit a vessel in the Corfu harbor on Corfu Island. In Italy, XII Air Support Command and Northwest Tactical Bomber Force operations are cancelled or aborted due to weather, but RAF Desert Air Force fighters hit trains, trucks, and gun positions near Montesilvano and Vasto.

Minesweeper HMS Hythe (J 194) is torpedoed and sunk by U-371 off Bougie at 37 04N 05 00E. (Alex Gordon)(108)

Submarine HMS Usurper is believed to have been mined in the Gulf of Genoa. All hands lost.

CHINA: USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-24 Liberators bomb the town area of Tengchung.

BURMA: USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-24 Liberators bomb the town areas of Sadon and Myitkyina.

JAPAN: The submarine USS Wahoo (SS-238) is sunk in La Perouse Strait off the coast of Hokkaido with its ace skipper, Commander Dudley “Mush the Magnificent” Morton. During five patrols, Morton and Wahoo sank 19 ships.

Japanese records reported that, on 11 October, the date USS Wahoo was due to exit through La Perouse Strait, an antisubmarine aircraft found a surfaced submarine and attacked, dropping three depth charges sinking the sub. USS Wahoo was announced overdue on 2 December 1943 and stricken from the Navy list on 6 December 1943. [On 11 October 1943, the commander of a Japanese shore battery over looking Soya Strait reported sighting and firing on a surfaced submarine. A number of hits were claimed before the submarine dived and an aircraft from Ominato was sent to the spot. At 0920 hours, the plane detected an oil patch and the shadow of a conning tower and bombs were dropped on this shape. The aircraft radioed for assistance and circled until other planes arrived. A submarine was positively identified and more bombs were dropped until surface ships, including HIJMS Submarine Chasers 15 and 43 arrived. These, and other ships, dropped depth charges. HIJMS Submarine Chaser 15 reported part of a ship’s propeller thrown to the surface by an underwater explosion. More aircraft and HIJMS Auxiliary Minesweeper 18 arrived, but nothing more of the submarine was seen.]

EAST INDIES: During the night of 11/12 October, USAAF Fifth Air Force B-25 Mitchells bomb Cape Chater and Lautem Airfields on Dutch Timor Island in the Netherlands East Indies.

NEW GUINEA: Over Northeast New Guinea, Colonel Neal Kearby, Commanding Officer 348th Fighter Group, Fifth Air Force, shoots down six Japanese fighters, four “Zekes” (Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighters) and two “Tonys” (Kawasaki Army Type 3 Fighter Hien) near Wewak, Northeast New Guina. He is awarded the Medal of Honor for this action.

In Dutch New Guinea, USAAF Fifth Air Force B-24 Liberators attack Manokwari, Bira, and Fakfak and score hits on a small vessel at Fakfak.

SOLOMON ISLANDS: Twenty two Thirteenth Air Force B-24s join 30 SBD Dauntlesses and 22 TBF Avengers in bombing Kahili Airfield on Bougainville Island and the nearby area. Hits are scored on the airstrip, fuel dumps, supply areas, gun positions, bridges between Rangu and Jakohina, barges at the mouth of the Uguima River, and several other targets. USAAF P-40 and USMC F4U Corsair pilots claim 11 Japanese aircraft shot down during the day.

Japanese aircraft attack U.S. shipping off Koli Point, Guadalcanal, torpedoing two merchant freighters.

SOUTHWEST PACIFIC: Colonel Neal Kearby, a Fifth Air Force P-47 Thunderbolt fighter pilot, shoots down six Japanese fighters, 4 “Zekes” (Mitsubishi A6M, Navy Type 0 Carrier Fighters) and 2 “Tonys” (Kawasaki Army Type 3 Fighter Hien) near Wewak, New Guinea and is awarded the Medal of Honor for this action. The citation for the medal reads, “For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with the enemy, Colonel Kearby volunteered to lead a flight of 4 fighters to reconnoiter the strongly defended enemy base at Wewak. Having observed enemy installations and reinforcements at 4 airfields, and secured important tactical information, he saw an enemy fighter below him, made a diving attack and shot it down in flames. The small formation then sighted approximately 12 enemy bombers accompanied by 36 fighters. Although his mission had been completed, his fuel was running low, and the numerical odds were 12 to 1, he gave the signal to attack. Diving into the midst of the enemy airplanes he shot down 3 in quick succession. Observing 1 of his comrades with 2 enemy fighters in pursuit, he destroyed both enemy aircraft. The enemy broke off in large numbers to make a multiple attack on his airplane but despite his peril he made one more pass before seeking cloud protection. Coming into the clear, he called his flight together and led them to a friendly base. Colonel Kearby brought down 6 enemy aircraft in this action, undertaken with superb daring after his mission was completed.” Kearby shoots down his 22nd Japanese aircraft on 5 March 1944 but dies of injuries sustained while bailing out of his crippled fighter.

Other Fifth Air Force activity in New Guinea has B-24s attacking the towns of Manokwari, Bira, and Fak Fak and score hits on a small vessel at Fak Fak. During the night of 11/12 October, B-25s bomb Cape Chater Airfield and Lautem on Timor Island.

CANADA: Frigate HMCS Buckingham (ex-Royalmount) is laid down in Lauzon, Province of Quebec.

U.S.A.: Baseball!

Destroyer USS Collett is laid down.

Destroyer escorts USS McAnn and USS Tisdale are commissioned.

ATLANTIC OCEAN: U-616 sinks HM LCT 553.

U-532 sinks SS Jalabala.


6 posted on 10/11/2013 4:48:45 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

We Lose ....
actual losses..?

claims on both sides of conflict usually were inflated...


7 posted on 10/11/2013 4:53:59 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

post shows a more successful attempt toward world government.


8 posted on 10/11/2013 5:01:03 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

October 11, 1943:


"Josef Glazman was the deputy commander of the Vilna (Lithuania) Ghetto police and the leader of the Betar youth group.
His negotiations with the leaders of Jewish youth groups produced a unified Resistance faction known as the FPO (United Partisans Organization).
Glazman was responsible for gathering intelligence about the German and Lithuanian forces, training new recruits, and organizing housing within the ghetto.
He was killed in a gunfight with the Germans in the Naroch Forest in October 1943."


"An Italian soldier and Italian sailor hug as they celebrate the announcement that Italy has declared war on Germany.
For many soldiers, their rejoicing would be short-lived.
Italy's new government, headed by Marshal Pietro Badoglio, surrendered to the Allies on September 8, and five weeks later King Victor Emmanuel III took the next step, declaring war on Germany.
As a result, hundreds of thousands of Italian soldiers in the regions controlled by German troops were disarmed by the Germans and sent to internment camps.
Thousands perished."


"A Jew, recently apprehended by a Danish Nazi (center, in black raincoat and hat), is rescued by his fellow Danes.
As the Nazi escorted the Jew through the streets, an angry crowd forced him to surrender his prisoner to the Danish police.
Once safely inside the police station, the gendarmes helped the Jew escape.
The Danish police consistently refused to cooperate with the German occupation authorities."



9 posted on 10/11/2013 5:16:42 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: kimtom
claims on both sides of conflict usually were inflated...

In this case the number is pretty accurate. The 8th Air Force website gives 30 B-17s lost and 1 P-47. The numbers in the paper were generally fairly good for losses on our side. An exception that comes to mind was when about 60 B-17s were lost on a mission to Schweinfurt in August. The first number reported in the Times was half that, although it was corrected in subsequent days. The inflation happened with estimates of enemy losses.

10 posted on 10/11/2013 5:18:40 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

“U.S. Fliers Down 102 planes.....”

Not so much....

The Munster raid was an expensive flop, actually. 30 Bombers and crews confirmed lost, 3 immediate write-offs, and 102 damaged out of 236 that crossed the coast. This does not include Bomber Command losses, either.

The 100th Bomb Group was almost completely wiped out after this raid, and previous losses.

The returning bombers claimed 183 kills, but Luftwaffe records show only 27 losses/writeoffs, across all Euro fronts.


11 posted on 10/11/2013 5:38:36 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The "Wahoo" was found in 2006 by a Russian Navy Dive Team.
12 posted on 10/11/2013 5:44:38 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Navy says wreck found off Japan is legendary sub USS Wahoo

From Commander, U.S. Pacific Fleet Public Affairs, 31 October 2006.
In July, the Russian dive team “Iskra” photographed wreckage lying in about 213 feet (65 meters) of water in the La Perouse (Soya) Strait between the Japanese island of Hokkaido and the Russian island of Sakhalin. The divers were working with The Wahoo Project Group, an international team of experts coordinated by Bryan MacKinnon, a relative of Wahoo’s famed skipper, Cmdr. Dudley W. “Mush” Morton.

“I am very pleased to be part of an effort where old adversaries have joined together as friends to find the Wahoo,” said MacKinnon.

Wahoo was last heard from Sept. 13, 1943, as the Gato-class submarine departed the island of Midway en route to the “dangerous, yet important,” Sea of Japan. Under strict radio silence, Morton and his crew proceeded as ordered. Radio contact was expected to be regained with Midway in late October upon Wahoo’s departure from the Sea of Japan through the Kurile Island chain. No such contact was made. Following an aerial search of the area, Wahoo was officially reported missing Nov. 9, 1943.

At the time, the loss of Wahoo was believed due to mines or a faulty torpedo. But Japanese reports later stated that one of its planes had spotted an American submarine in the La Perouse Strait on Oct. 11, 1943. These reports indicate a multi-hour combined sea and air attack involving depth charges and aerial bombs finally sunk Wahoo.
http://www.oneternalpatrol.com/wahoo-navy-release.htm


13 posted on 10/11/2013 5:46:13 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
It's little appreciated and for obvious reasons not much discussed that the bombing campaign was 100% effective but in ways nobody expected. The goal was to destroy production os the Luftwaffe ON THE GROUND by taking out manufacturing, ball bearing lands, and fuel refineries. That was only partially successful. Speer increased production from 1943-1944.

Instead,our bombers became bait to lure up the Luftwaffe where it was destroyed by tight bomber formations (not as well) and then long range fighter escorts (devastatingly). In June 1944, Germany was using one-third of its entire military production vs. western bombers! This was when they desperately needed air support in the east.

In 1879, Lord Chelmsford used his column, marching in the open, to do the same thing with the Zulus, who were slaughtered when they attacked compact British lines of volley fire and Gatling guns.

And, in Iraq, quite by accident, we found that our troops on the ground acted as the same lure to pull in Al-Qaeda from all over the world Zaqwari was a Jordanian). I call it the roach motel technique: put the hotel out and the roaches will come.

14 posted on 10/11/2013 6:06:41 AM PDT by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
I was noticing the glowing reports of the performance of the 8th AF; three days later they'd get their heads handed to them on a platter, again going to Schweinfurt. Summarized:
Of the 291 B-17 Flying Fortresses sent on the mission, 60 were lost outright, another 17 damaged so heavily that they had to be scrapped, and another 121 had varying degrees of battle damage. Outright losses represented over 26% of the attacking force. Losses in aircrew were equally heavy, with 650 men lost of 2,900, 22% of the bomber crews.

The seventieth anniversary will be this coming Monday.

15 posted on 10/11/2013 6:16:11 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: LS
LS: "In June 1944, Germany was using one-third of its entire military production vs. western bombers! This was when they desperately needed air support in the east....
"I call it the roach motel technique: put the hotel out and the roaches will come."

Thanks for that great analysis!

Turns out, our "Air Farce" was actually a force to be reckoned with.


16 posted on 10/11/2013 6:41:20 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

The map of the central section of the Eastern front shows the line running east of the Dnieper. With the exception of the northern and southern wings of the map, this line will remain unchanged until June 22, 1944. The Soviet offensive in this sector has pretty much petered out, after having suffered very heavy casualties for not much ground gained and no decisive penetrations of the German front.

The Soviets brushed these unpleasant facts under the rug in their official histories. The Soviet front commander, Vassily Sokolovsky, later rose to high rank in the post-war Soviet armed forces. He was Zhukov’s successor as Soviet “viceroy” in East Germany, Deputy Minister of Defense, and Chief of the General Staff. From these lofty political appointments he made sure the histories were scrubbed of his failures as a field commander.


17 posted on 10/11/2013 7:33:27 AM PDT by henkster (Communists never negotiate.)
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To: henkster
SS in Kharkov, Ukraine photo Snapshot164.jpg
18 posted on 10/11/2013 8:19:37 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: henkster
SS tanks in Kharkov, Ukraine photo tanks-of-the-1st-SS-Panzer-Division-Leibstandarte-SS-Adolf-Hitler-n-Kharkov-March-1943_zps045da970.jpg
19 posted on 10/11/2013 8:25:42 AM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

The inflation happened with estimates of enemy losses...”

that is what I meant. (both sides)

but I know, pilots claiming same kill..etc (especially bomber gunners)


20 posted on 10/11/2013 10:28:10 AM PDT by kimtom (USA ; Freedom is not Free)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Pilot John Winant, Jr. survived the war as a POW and lived to age 71.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/02/obituaries/john-g-winant-jr-71-prisoner-of-germans-during-world-war-ii.html


21 posted on 10/11/2013 6:46:58 PM PDT by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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To: BroJoeK

They weren’t always accurate-—did I mention that? Our troops were bombed so often by our own planes that they called them the “8th Luftwaffe.”


22 posted on 10/12/2013 7:55:10 PM PDT by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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