and let others go to THEIR church and let them worship as THEY see fit.
But... they are going to the WRONG church!!!
Posted on 12/22/2013 7:55:11 AM PST by Colofornian
It’s three days to Christmas, 2008. And the Mormon Church-owned Deseret News is at it yet once again:
”In 1844, there were approximately 26,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Yet, when W.W. Phelps penned a song of tribute to his beloved, fallen Prophet, he promised that ‘millions shall know Brother Joseph again’” [My note: The ‘song of tribute’ is an actual praise song directed TO Joseph Smith, ‘Praise to the Man’...for more on this, see Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity]]
The DesNews article continues:
"...Now known not only to the millions of members of the LDS Church, but also by countless more around the world, Joseph Smith has taken a unique and respected place in American and religious history...An advance copy of the CD was presented to President Thomas S. Monson...He reminisced about serving as a mission president in Toronto, ‘the only area outside his own, where Joseph Smith taught.’ He also noted that he's always appreciated the fact that Joseph Smith was born in the season in which we celebrate the birth of Christ...And at this season, he's happy that our thoughts can be drawn to Joseph Smith. ‘He gave us everything.’"
So the current Mormon "prophet" – three days before Christmas and one day before Joseph Smith's birthday – pronounces that Joseph Smith "gave us everything?"
What does that look like to the average non-Mormon?
Yup, that's right: Merry Smithmas!
In the previous two years, Lds "apologist" Daniel C. Peterson has tried – in vain – to develop a "we don't celebrate 'Smithmas'" apologetic.
This was his blog effort in 2012: Merry Smithmas!
And two years ago today--Dec. 22, 2011-- Peterson jumpstarted a forum at Mormondialogue.com jon the same subject: "Celebration of Smithmas." In this forum, Peterson eventually declares that "Oh, Smithmas is definitely an invention of our apostate critics..." Another poster, a writer with the Deseret News (Scott Lloyd), stated on Jan. 3, 2012 on this same forum thread that: "It is clear from discussion in this thread that the 'Smithmas' notion is a fantasy invented from whole cloth by antagonists for political purposes."
Yet the ironic aspect is that Peterson himself – on Dec. 22, 2011 -- acknowledged how he personally celebrates "Smithmas" in the original forum post on "Smithmas":
"In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..."
Peterson didn't hold back in declaring the same thing on his Nov. 30, 2012 blog on the topic.
Well, at another Mormon forum – Mormondiscussions.com – Mormon poster "Aristotle Smith" couldn't but help note the extreme irony, quoting Peterson's blog twice [Note: "DCP" = Daniel C. Peterson]:
"...after denying vehemently that Mormons worship Joseph Smith and celebrate Smithmas, DCP then talks about what he and his family do every December 23rd: Quote: So far from the truth is it that my wife and I, ten or so years back, decided to host a small birthday party for Joseph Smith at our home every 23 December. We thought it sad that, amidst all the busyness and commercialism of Christmas, his signal contribution to our lives and faith usually went altogether unmentioned. We may have missed a year or two since then — though I’m not sure of that — and we’ll be out of state this year, but, for the most part, we’ve continued this newly-invented custom annually. Our birthday party typically involves a potluck dinner, something about Joseph Smith, and then . . . Christmas carols and Christmas hymns. (We include among those we’ve usually invited some good and exceptionally musical friends — e.g., a composer with a doctorate in musicology, a former professional opera singer, a music teacher and member of the Tabernacle Choir with a master’s degree in choral conducting, and several members of recorded choral groups — so it’s a real treat for us.) [Aristotle Smith then adds]: So the proof that Mormons don't celebrate Smithmas is...the fact that DCP is the biggest purveyor of Smithmas. My irony meter exploded when in the very next paragraph after the quoted paragraph above was this: Quote: If anybody out there can point to specific examples of “Smithmas” in his or her experience, I would appreciate hearing about them. [Aristotle Smith finishes his Dec. 2, 2012 post with]: "Um, yeah, try your own blog post."
In the 2011 discussion two years ago today, Mormon poster Cobalt -70 reacted to Peterson's announcement about his personal "Smithmas" parties:
"...I hope it doesn't catch on. If Smith were born some time other than two days before Christmas, then that would be great. But anything that celebrates both Joseph Smith with Jesus in the same context is not a good thing for Mormon PR."
In the same forum, Jan. 2, 2012, Mormon poster Sethbag noted: "...I think that IMHO an inordinate amount of attention is paid to Joseph Smith. He's been succeeded as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator what, fifteen times now? And yet Joseph Smith probably gets more airtime in LDS circles than all of his successors put together, probably by some large multiple. Whether Smithmas is real or not, the amount of attention paid to the founder of the religion sure is pretty freaking high." Sources of above two quotes: See: See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/
"Xmas" is an abbreviated version of "Christmas." What's LMOS? It's an acronym for Local Manifestations of Smithmas!
While most of "Smithmas" flows from Utah cities like Salt Lake City, Provo (BYU), and Logan (Lds' Religion Institute at Utah State), this chart below shows LMOS – Local Manifestations of Smithmas – do occur.
For example, what do the years 2012, 2007, 2001, 1990, 1979 – or even a year going all the way back to 1894 -- all have in common?
Answer: The so-called "Christmas" service in Mormondom fell upon Joseph Smith's Dec. 23 birthday!
You see, Mormonism doesn't offer "special" Christmas Eve or Christmas Day services to celebrate that incarnational event unless it happens to fall on a Sunday -- Sabbath day.
So, over the past 187 years of the existence of the Mormon Church, that Sabbath has an equal chance of falling on either Jesus' birthday -- or Joseph Smith's. And as to which Historic person gets more attention that year could depend upon whose birthday falls closest to that fourth Sunday in December!
Well, in 1894, Joseph Smith's nephew, Joseph F. Smith, also a "living prophet" of the Mormon church, advocated that Mormons should celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday: This, too, was recommended on a Sabbath -- Dec. 23, 1894 – a day which could be sourced as the festive "jumpstart" of "Smithmas!" [See MormonHeritage.com]
This very tension within Mormonism leads to some uncomfortable moments among Mormons come Dec. 23...Like the years 1979 and 2001.
Mormondialogue forum poster Rameumptom was reminiscing earlier this month about such a special "Smithmas" year, Dec. 23, 1979:
"I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) (MormonDialogue.org)
And when Smith's birthday rose up again on Sabbath Day, 2001, Mormon poster "Backpew" at NewOrderMormon.org relayed his/her experience earlier that day:
"I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen....It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, 'A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses....' 'the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it...' I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, 'I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today,' yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." (NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] Note: "GBH" = Gordon B. Hinckley
Indeed, many Mormons simply feel out of place in the Mormon Church.
| DATE | COMMENTARY | LINK/SOURCE | Additional Commentary | |
| 2013 | A Mormon thread overseer attempts to engage in Morpologetics, yet manages to stir up either wonderment that such a "Smithmas" recognition "out there" exists (at times, the discussion takes on a "Does Santa Claus exist?" flavor re: the existence of "Smithmas"). One Mormon poster recalls the 2005 BYU Joseph Smith nativity scene: "JKWilliams: As I recall, BYU had a sort of 'Joseph Smith Manger' scene set up that Christmas season, which to me was a bit unseemly" On page one of this forum, one poster discusses Lds Morpologist Daniel Peterson's 2012 attempt to dismiss the "Smithmas" trend: "Dan makes the obvious point that among the Latter-day Saints, there is scarcely ever a mention of the birth of Joseph Smith at this time of year, let alone an observance of it that overshadows Christmas." | MormonDialogue.org: Smithmas... | This despite the fact that Daniel C. Peterson himself has blogged that his family has friends-over for Joseph Smith birthday parties for the past 10-15 years! | |
| 2012 (Nov. 30) | Poster Aristotle Smith: "I just realized that Christmas falls on a Tuesday this year, so December 23 is on a Sunday. This of course provides a great opportunity for the LDS church to prove its Christian roots by using that day to talk about Joseph Smith, it is his birthday after all. So, will the average LDS ward celebrate Smithmas or Christmas on December 23 this year? I'm guessing my wife's ward will split the difference and dedicate part to Joseph Smith and part to Jesus. Aristotle Smith's "irony meter" also exploded in commenting upon Lds apologist's comments from a then-recently released blog about "Smithmas" | MormonDiscussions.com: Will Smithmas return this year? | Beyond the excerpt above, ya gotta read some of the humor of this thread...click on the above link | |
| 2011 (Dec. 22) | Lds morpologist jumpstarts thread in which he concedes his family personally celebrates Joseph Smith's birthday on an annual basis. It has all the "pine tree" scent of "Smithmas" – though Peterson doesn't like that name. Peterson writes: "In my house we actually do celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday on 23 December. We've done it roughly for ten years now, maybe fifteen. We'll do it tomorrow night. We invite friends over, have a potluck meal and a White Elephant party, maybe tell a story about Joseph Smith..." | See second "hit" on this google search for who posted in Mormondialogue.org: "Celebration Of Smithmas" See: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56547-celebration-of-smithmas/ | See comments in above article | |
| 2010 (March 4) | Pam, head moderator: "Who, then, is the 'root of Jesse'? It appears that the Prophet Joseph Smith is both the 'rod' and the 'root' that will come from Jesse…" | 2 Nephi 21 | For more on this, see: D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2009 (Dec. 24) | Mormon columnist Doug Gibson: "...every December around Christmastime, sacrament turns into a bummer, at least for me. Almost every year, Jesus Christ seems to be a bit player. I don’t know who is to blame. Maybe bishoprics are instructed to have “Christmas Sunday” appear as just another Sabbath in the ward house, with a couple of religious carols thrown in the mix as a nod to the holiday...Every year I convince myself we’re going to have a real Christmas Sunday with talks on the Lord’s birth and the congregation singing Christmas carols along with the ward choir, and, well… There are not-too-subtle conflicts...the prophet’s birthday is Dec. 23.Although Joseph Smith, for all his recognition, is not the same as Jesus Christ,there have been occasions where “Praise to the Man” is sung more often than “Away in the Manger” on Christmastime Sunday. But most of the time there’s just a maddeningly frustrating neutrality about Christmas, Joseph Smith and Jesus Christ. Take the most recent sacrament meeting. The opening song was “The First Vision,” and then the bishop reminded us that during this season we should remember the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. That seemed an appropriate nod to the man and I was encouraged that there were two Christmas carols and three talks left on the program. But the talks, which bookended a ward choir Christmas carol, were not about Christ’s birth, although they did capture His spirit. They were well-prepared, informative and spiritual talks that would have been appropriate for any sacrament meeting, but why can’t we have had talks about the birth of Christ? Is there some edict against it? ... Christ shouldn’t get the bump like a diet book author waiting his turn on a Letterman show that runs too long. | Doug Gibson, Utah Mormon columnist: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting; see also: The dreaded Christmastime ward sacrament meeting [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Mormons, isn't it time to have a "real Christmas Sunday?" Come worship in a church this season that truly honors the birth of the Lord Jesus. Christmas is for Jesus Christ. Honoring Him. Don't 'bump' him 'like a diet book author waiting his turn' on an over-extended Letterman show. | |
| 2008 (Dec. 1) | Blog: "The two hundredth anniversary of Joseph Smith’s birth is three years past, and the hand wringing of Smith-centric sacrament meetings in December (Christmas infringement!) is mostly abated. Still, it shouldn’t be a surprise that commemorating the birth and life of the Prophet of the Restoration is part of our liturgical calendar, ad hoc and informal though it may be." | Bycommonconsent.com: 'Joseph and Jesus' | Call it what you will: Smith-centricism; Christmas infringement; the eclipse of Christmas; or, just plain "Smithmas" | |
| 2007 (Dec. 21) | Don, BYU business management grad and former Lds missionary to Guatamala: "Regardless, the 'root of Jesse' is almost surely the Prophet Joseph Smith. He holds the keys of this kingdom in both time and eternity and is the president of the last and greatest of all dispensations, the dispensation of the fulness of times. (See D&C 27:12-13; 90:1-3;112:30-32; 128:18-21) He is the living ensign to which the present generation must gather. We cannot, in reality, come to Christ if we do not accept his servant, Joseph Smith. "The Lord's works are first spiritual and then temporal, or physical. (See D&C 29:31-32) All of the spiritual keys, powers, doctrines, and ordinances revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith must be honored and implemented before Zion, the second ensign, can be literally established in fullness and glory. (See D&C 64:41-43; 105:3-5) That day is not far off (Witness of Jesus Christ: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Old Testament, Richard D. Draper. See ch. 14 "The Two Davids"). So any hope I had of finding a definitive answer on who the rod and branch is or are, is lost in a sea of opinions. It could be Christ or Joseph Smith or a powerful Jewish leader named David." | Isaiah 11 & 12: The Rod, Stem of Jesse, the Branch and the Roots | "Oh come, Oh come, EmmanSMITHuel? See D&c 325 Test #2 [Merry 'SMITHMAS!' BYU class says Joseph Smith is both 'Rod' and 'Root' of Jesse] | |
| 2007 (Sept. 16) | This blog addresses some Mormons dismissals that they celebrate "Smithmas": "Of course, there are a few problems with that characterization, aren’t there? Chief among them — if Joseph Smith is really just like John the Baptist, then why don’t we treat the two similarly? And despite doctrinal protests, we really don’t. In the current hymnal, there are no hymns about Moses. None about John the Baptist (though Jesus’s baptism is referenced a few times). A few cursory mentions of Peter, in places like What Was Witnessed (#11), and implied mention in #105, Master the Tempest is Raging. There are some mentions of Adam — more than any other Biblical prophet, probably — as well as Enoch. In contrast, we get two very well-known, oft-sung hymns focusing directly on Joseph Smith: Praise to the Man, and Oh How Lovely was the Morning. Prior hymnals contained many more: The Seer; Blest was the Day when the Prophet and Seer; O Give me Back my Prophet; and so on...The same goes for church art. The average church building might have pictures of Joseph Smith alone; of the First Vision; of the priesthood restoration; of translation. The Gospel Art kit reflects this. It contains ten pictures of Joseph Smith. There are six pictures of Jesus’ apostles, four pictures of Moses, Lehi, and Nephi, and three each of Adam and Daniel..." | Timesandseasons.org: Praising the man; see also: Praising the man [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | Iconic adoration of Joseph Smith – and a previous hymnal edition that had even more praise songs to Joseph Smith | |
| 2005 (Dec. 19) | A grassroots Mormon makes mention of Joseph Smith-centrism, 'Praise to the Man,' and the Joseph Smith Nativity creche at BYU that month | ByCommonConsent.com: "Dealing with Smithmas"; see also: "Dealing with “Smithmas” [Mormon worship of Joseph Smith] | See: Joseph Smith Nativity [A Virtual 'Merry Smithmas' 'Greeting Card' circa 2005] | |
| 2005 (Feb. 10) | These are original quotes from Mormon leaders that insert Joseph Smith in place of Jesus Christ as the way to heaven | MormonCurtain.com: Reasons Joseph Smith is More Important Than Jesus; see also: Reasons Joseph Smith Is More Important Than Jesus [Mormon Merry Smithmas!] | See How would YOU score on this 26-question quiz about 'Smithmas?' [Vanity, Part A] and Chart entitled: "Mormon leader proclamations where the 'confession' is about Joseph Smith – and usually mentions/implies Smith as the 'Way' -- the 'consent'[er] or passport" in Mormon Tabernacle Choir conductor: 'Praise to the Man'...hymn praises Joseph Smith [Smithmas vanity] | |
| Previous Sample Years: 2001 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Poster "January" comments: "Thanks for the opportunity to vent. I went to church today, too, and yes, lots of very dull, ill-prepared music and minimal decoration. I went with a pretty bad attitude, but it is lame that one of the two most important holidays in all Christendom just is like any other Sunday at our church. It would help if our chapels at least looked like churches, the stained glass alone at other churches gets me in a worshipful mood. I am looking forward to going a Protestant Christmas eve ceremony tomorrow." Poster "backpew" then described his Dec. 23 experience: "I promised myself to not even look at this bb this weekend so I could find my own Christmas spirit. But, something happened at sac meeting that I just KNEW would happen, but was hoping WOULDN'T happen..... It actually started out very lovely. The narrator was one of my favorite men in the ward -- very soft spoken. His script read, "A good shepherd does not drive his sheep with dogs and horses...." "the sheep hear the good shepherd's voice, and they know it, and they follow it..." I felt all tingly because that felt like a very good start to a good Christmas program. Though our choir isn't the best I've ever heard, I was determined to soak it all in. We have some talented violinists, and some talented pianists, and the narration was so nice, and a girl in our ward sang with such an angelic voice. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, "I'll bet they can't get through this program without conking me on the head with the Restoration, Joseph Smith, GBH is our prophet on earth today," yadda yadda yadda. And guess what? It happened at the end when the Bishop spoke. ARRRRRRGGGGHHHH. I like our Bishop as a person, but... oh well. I guess I just don't belong. Merry Christmas to you all. May you find the peace that this time of year is supposed to bring." |
NewOrderMormon.org: First time at church today in 10 months--Whew! [Lds posters comment on "SmithEmphasisMas" @ Lds Church on Dec. 23] | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. | |
| Previous Sample Years: 1979 – a year in which the "Christmas" Sunday fell upon "Smithmas" – Joseph Smith's Dec. 23rd birthday | Rameumptom, 2013 about 1979: "I recall the one Christmas Sacrament meeting during my mission (1979), when a member of the stake presidency spoke and said he wasn't going to talk about Jesus, who he said was not born in December, but in April. So he talked about Joseph Smith. He [mis]quoted D&C 135 by saying "Joseph Smith has done more for the benefit of man than any other man in history". Our Sunday School Gospel Doctrine teacher, who was a school principal, had about a dozen teachers from his school he invited so they could see Mormons believe in Christ..."(p. 4) | MormonDialogue.org | Years like 2001 and 1979 intensify the tension between Mormons who want to focus on Joseph Smith vs. those who want to focus on Jesus Christ. Because no Christmas Day or Christmas Eve services are held in the Mormon Church unless those calendar days fall on a Sunday, then that fourth Sunday de facto becomes "the Christmas service." Tension then builds when that fourth Sunday of the month balls on Joseph Smith's birthday—Dec. 23. |
I see you retained YOUR copy of the memo!
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Office of First President & Living Prophet®: December 11st, 2011
URGENT!
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Like watching EVERYTHING on A&E except DD??
Hey! DD!!!
We don't LAY the eggs; merely color them!!!
Thanks rightly goes to the great MORMON religious organization that makes SO much of it's material available for ALL to see!
(We do the work others are too lazy to do; and just LOOK at the thanks WE get!)
Well; ya got ME!!
I thought it was a typo that I made!!
But... they are going to the WRONG church!!!
Yes, we know you’re proud of your brothers, but would you stop posting this picture of them?
“When they teach Christians to evangelize they teach us to speak the truth of the Bible, God and of course Jesus with love.”
Correcting error is by necessity a negative. The Apostles, God the Father and Jesus all did exactly that.
“Speaking with love softens hearts. Speak with anger or a heavy hand hardens hearts. Of course its not a simple exercise when faced with non-believers or people with lots of anger in their hearts.”
Speaking truth with love is the combination. Assuming there is no love just because error is identified and corrected is a false choice.
John the Baptist called both the Pharisees and Sadducees “a generation of Vipers” (snakes) (Matt. 3:7), he rebuked Herod the king. It was necessary to tell the truth - not just for their sake, but even more importantly to the others listening.
Paul continues this same instruction to warn believers about false teaching by writing: “”The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron...If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed” (1 Timothy 4:1-2,6)”
Paul corrected Peter to his face, calling him a hypocrite.
Paul wrote that if anyone presents a different Gospel, that he should be accursed.
The Apostle John wrote, “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting”
The Apostle Paul tells us what to do an why: “I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”
To end here, Jesus Christ, in fulfillment of prophecy by God the Father, made a whip and cleaned out those who turned the Temple into a marketplace.
There are a number of former mormons on FR who now know Christ because of these discussions.
How many mormons have you led to faith in Christ?
...because it looks like you MORMONs are going to NEED one!
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned;
and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given,
and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.
Brigham Young - JoD 3:266 (July 14, 1855)
Welcome to MORMONism 101
While we are waiting to start; enjoy the artwork on our walls.
If some of it seems shifty to you, just look at it real closely
and it will stop moving, but another location will then start to crawl on you.
Do NOT think our DOCTRINE is this way!
“Satan”? Really? I was thinking more along the lines of Thomas Jefferson, “But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
So says you; but the lurkers will HAVE to accept what's posted unless YOU (or another capable MORMON) corrects it.
Are you up to the task?
Do you CARE if accuracy is presented?
Is MORMONism's lies REALLY worth all that effort?
PD; is this YOU???
You were ALWAYS trotting out a bunch of MORMON writing and telling folks, "...the Answer is in there!"
I miss ol' PD!
HE was about useless when it came to defending his faith; but at LEAST he had a bunch of links that showed interested people where to find the MILK of MORMONism...
Here; in his memory; is The LIST:
Silly wabbit!
We prove NOTHING with the bat!
It's merely used to get their attention!!!
And then they don't have to THINK about it any more!!
Matthew 15:16
"Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
Matthew 231. Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
2. "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
4. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5. "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long;
6. they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
7. they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
8. "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
9. And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
10. Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
11. The greatest among you will be your servant.
12. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
14. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
16. "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
17. You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
18. You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
19. You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
20. Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
21. And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
22. And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
23. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
24. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
26. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
28. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
29. "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
30. And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
31. So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32. Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
33. "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
34. Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
35. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36. I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
37. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
38. Look, your house is left to you desolate.
39. For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
Mark 7:26-27
26. The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
27. "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
On reply #54 I finally saw it - thought that I had done it!
(Put a space before the slash next time so these old, tired eyes will catch it; maybe... ;^)
So you never answered, do you get paid by the post or word?
I should, since they are MUCH older now!
I was thinking more like Jesus:
Matthew 16:23 (niv)
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."
Oh; the WORD; of course!
Otherwise you only have little witty things from me to complain about!
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