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Greg Maddux won’t be a unanimous Hall of Famer for an incredibly stupid reason
Sports Illustrated ^ | January 7, 2014 | Cliff Corcoran

Posted on 01/07/2014 12:59:17 PM PST by EveningStar

No player has ever been elected unanimously to the Hall of Fame and four-time Cy Young winner Greg Maddux, the most obvious of the many deserving candidates on this year’s ballot, won’t be the first. We now know that for sure thanks to MLB.com’s commendable tradition of posting its writers’ ballots the day before the results are announced. There are 17 MLB.com writers who have been members of the Baseball Writers Association of America for 10 or more years and thus are eligible to vote for the Hall of Fame. Sixteen of them voted for Maddux. Dodgers beat reporter Ken Gurnick did not.

Why not? Gurnick wrote that he won’t vote for any player who “played during the period of PED use.” Not one. So who was on his ballot? Just Jack Morris.

(Excerpt) Read more at mlb.si.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: baseball; baseballhalloffame; gregmaddux; hof; jackmorris; kengurnick; maddux; mlb
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How MLB.com writers voted in Hall of Fame balloting
1 posted on 01/07/2014 12:59:17 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar
Gurnick wrote that he won’t vote for any player who “played during the period of PED use."

He's an ass. So they're all guilty by association?

Ok, two can play at that game. Gurnick is a sports writer. Sports writers are part of the media. The media is nothing more than a bunch of liberal bedwetting socialists, worthy of nothing but scorn.

There.

2 posted on 01/07/2014 1:01:47 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: EveningStar

It appears that this Gurnick guy won’t be voting ever again.


3 posted on 01/07/2014 1:03:33 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: EveningStar

PEDs destroyed any credibility of baseball stats. Therefore the HOF should have a huge asterisk next to it.

Barry Bonds 70 HRs in a season? You don’t need to look much farther than that to make the point.


4 posted on 01/07/2014 1:04:22 PM PST by Bullish (America should yank Obama like a rotten tooth before he poisons the entire body)
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To: EveningStar

OOps I meant to say Mark Maguire 70 HRS


5 posted on 01/07/2014 1:06:23 PM PST by Bullish (America should yank Obama like a rotten tooth before he poisons the entire body)
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To: Bullish
PEDs destroyed any credibility of baseball stats.

The credibility of baseball stats was destroyed by interleague play before that.
6 posted on 01/07/2014 1:07:14 PM PST by Dr. Sivana (Five years, my brain hurts a lot.)
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To: EveningStar
If anything, facing a bunch of 'roided up batters makes Maddux's stats all the more impressive.
7 posted on 01/07/2014 1:08:14 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Everyone get online for Obamacare on 10/1. Overload the system and crash it hard!)
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To: Bullish

Fine. That’s Barry Bonds. He doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.

But there is no evidence, and I have seen no claims by anyone, that Greg Maddux ever used PEDs.


8 posted on 01/07/2014 1:08:48 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Bullish

Okay.

Fine. That’s Mark McGuire. He doesn’t belong in the Hall of Fame.

But there is no evidence, and I have seen no claims by anyone, that Greg Maddux ever used PEDs


9 posted on 01/07/2014 1:09:45 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: KarlInOhio

Good point.


10 posted on 01/07/2014 1:10:08 PM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Bullish

Bonds hit 73 homers in a season. He also holds the career mark for most homers with 762.


11 posted on 01/07/2014 1:10:43 PM PST by nonamer
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To: EveningStar

8 writers didn’t vote for Cal Ripken when he came up (same reason).


12 posted on 01/07/2014 1:10:55 PM PST by RabidBartender
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To: KarlInOhio

The guy will never see it this way.


13 posted on 01/07/2014 1:13:52 PM PST by Sir Napsalot (Pravda + Useful Idiots = CCCP; JournOList + Useful Idiots = DopeyChangey!)
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To: KarlInOhio
If anything, facing a bunch of 'roided up batters makes Maddux's stats all the more impressive.

I am not making any accusation against Maddox, but plenty of pitchers in that era were heavily roided up themselves. Roger Clemens being the Barry Bonds equivalent on the pitching mound.

14 posted on 01/07/2014 1:15:00 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: EveningStar

One look at Maddux’ body and you can tell he never used ‘roids.


15 posted on 01/07/2014 1:16:00 PM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: Bullish

Are you daft? You think Bonds is more legit. McGwire hit 33 HRs in the first half season, way before steroids.


16 posted on 01/07/2014 1:17:01 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: usconservative

...and most of the sports media are also whiny arse liberal socialists...

This idiot voter selected Jack Morris...who also pitched in the Steroid era...


17 posted on 01/07/2014 1:17:36 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Amnesty And Not Ending ObamaCare Will Kill GOP In 2014)
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To: usconservative
Ok, two can play at that game. Gurnick is a sports writer. Sports writers are part of the media. The media is nothing more than a bunch of liberal bedwetting socialists, worthy of nothing but scorn. There.

Your analogy fails because Gurnick really IS a liberal bed wetting socialist.

18 posted on 01/07/2014 1:18:01 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: dead

Doubted Maddux used roids. Maddux was a great change up pitcher, not a fastballer. His pitches never got 90 mph. He was the best at working the edges of the plate


19 posted on 01/07/2014 1:20:49 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (Amnesty And Not Ending ObamaCare Will Kill GOP In 2014)
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To: Talisker

Fails? I think I hit the nail on the head! ;-)


20 posted on 01/07/2014 1:21:21 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: EveningStar

So Maddux is sacrificed in order to make a point?

That’s worth one lifted eyebrow and a bemused facial expression.


21 posted on 01/07/2014 1:24:13 PM PST by lurk
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To: SeminoleCounty

Yes, I agree about Maddox. I was just pointing out a fact about the era - the hitters weren’t the only ones juicing. Many power pitchers were involved too.


22 posted on 01/07/2014 1:24:49 PM PST by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: Dr. Sivana
The credibility of baseball stats was destroyed by interleague play before that.

What really destroyed MLB stats even before IL play was the DH rule.... Which I hate.

23 posted on 01/07/2014 1:25:09 PM PST by Bullish (America should yank Obama like a rotten tooth before he poisons the entire body)
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To: lurk

I wouldn’t say he’s sacrificed, he’s still going to the HOF, just not unanimously, which never happens anyway.


24 posted on 01/07/2014 1:28:46 PM PST by discostu (I don't meme well.)
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To: EveningStar

Maddox was kidded about looking like the Pillsbury doughboy during his career, so PEDs are highly doubtful. I remember a rare triple he hit, he was huffing and puffing coming around second base and his teammates in the dugout were dying laughing at him because he looked like he wasn’t going to make it to third.


25 posted on 01/07/2014 1:29:37 PM PST by Stevenc131
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To: Bullish

baseball whats baseball I left watching or caring before 2003


26 posted on 01/07/2014 1:30:54 PM PST by Baseballguy (pharaphase (If someone does not believe in heaven or hell - they should not care where they go))
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To: usconservative

Gurnick’s assertion is farther off the mark than your’s.


27 posted on 01/07/2014 1:33:29 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("Gun horror is not a productive emotion, it's learned helplessness disguised as moral superiority.")
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To: EveningStar; All
its sports illustrated so take it with a grain of salt until the real story comes out...they lie to push stories and make up their agenda- witness the story on the oklahoma state football program this fall which was suppose to be devastating except for the fact the source giving them the info was not even attending the school when the so-called infractions occurred...
28 posted on 01/07/2014 1:35:13 PM PST by God luvs America (63.5 million pay no income tax and vote for DemoKrats...)
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To: EveningStar

If Sandy Koufax wasn’t unanimous, then no pitcher should be.


29 posted on 01/07/2014 1:36:31 PM PST by montag813
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To: usconservative

Sports reporters tend to be frustrated jocks who have a chip on their shoulder.

Think of the guy at the bar who was never in the service talking like he has been to the ‘Nam. That is a sports writer.


30 posted on 01/07/2014 1:42:36 PM PST by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: montag813
Eleven sportswriters declined to vote for Babe Ruth when his name first came up. That's just absurd.
31 posted on 01/07/2014 1:45:30 PM PST by Deo volente (God willing, America shall survive this Obamanation.)
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To: KarlInOhio
If anything, facing a bunch of 'roided up batters makes Maddux's stats all the more impressive.

I'm not accusing Maddux of using but many, many pitchers have (and still do). Steroids have a legitimate use as an anti-inflammatory. Pitchers who use steroids recover much more quickly from the stress of throwing hard in an unnatural motion.

Nothing against Greg Maddux but I don't want anybody voted into HOF unanimously. If the true legends of the game like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb can't get voted in unanimously, then I don't want some lesser light to get that honor. I hate it when awards get cheapened. Maddux is a great but 80 years from now, he'll be remembered by only hardcore baseball fans while Babe Ruth will probably still be remembered by the typical person 160 years after his playing days.

Maddux is a great one but he's not the best pitcher of this generation, Mariano Rivera is. It is debatable if Maddux is even the best starting pitcher of this generation when Clemens and Johnson get tossed into the discussion. However, Greg Maddux is absolutely worthy of a first-ballot HOF induction without question. (BTW, first-ballot induction is another distinction which has been cheapened over the past few decades - used to be quite an honor - reserved for only the greatest of the greats.)

32 posted on 01/07/2014 1:47:06 PM PST by CommerceComet (No more GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
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To: montag813
If Sandy Koufax Steve Carlton wasn’t unanimous, then no pitcher should be.

Fixed it :-)

33 posted on 01/07/2014 1:47:07 PM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: usconservative

Cal Ripken jr wasn’t unanimous for the same reason.

Let’s face it, Greg, like Cal, will be a first ballot selection, and a few years down the road it’s only idiots like us talking about the balloting.


34 posted on 01/07/2014 2:06:07 PM PST by dmz
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To: Baseballguy
baseball whats baseball I left watching or caring before 2003

You're missing some of the best baseball ever played. And I'm not talking about the overpaid Yankees, Dodgers, and such, but the scrappy teams built around teams of players who are young, strong, and love the game--exemplified by the Tampa Bay Rays, but also by the Jays, Orioles, Rangers, Pirates, and A's. When the rest of MLB catches on...

35 posted on 01/07/2014 2:07:03 PM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
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To: Baseballguy

baseball whats baseball I left watching or caring before 2003

<><><>

And yet, here you are in 2014 commenting on a baseball story. I won’t think less of you for still caring.


36 posted on 01/07/2014 2:08:06 PM PST by dmz
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To: dmz
.....and a few years down the road it’s only idiots like us talking about the balloting.

Not me, I'm just not that big of a baseball geek. I'm lucky enough to remember who Greg Maddux is only because he used to play for the Chicago Cubs. The Cubs were FOOLS to let him go to Atlanta where he had a great career.

Hat's off to Maddux on his upcoming induction to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Well deserved IMO.

37 posted on 01/07/2014 2:12:32 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: God luvs America; All
its sports illustrated so take it with a grain of salt until the real story comes out...they lie to push stories and make up their agenda- witness the story on the oklahoma state football program this fall which was suppose to be devastating except for the fact the source giving them the info was not even attending the school when the so-called infractions occurred...
  1. Other media sources are commenting on this.
  2. I included a link to MLB.com votes in the comment section of my initial post.

38 posted on 01/07/2014 2:14:59 PM PST by EveningStar
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To: EveningStar

If anything, the PED era makes Maddux’s accomplishments more impressive. It made it tougher to pitch against guys who were roided up.

I don’t think Maddux used PED’s and he deserves to be elected to the HOF. Regarding the unanimous part, I don’t believe any player has been elected unanimously, so I don’t think its that big of deal as long as Maddox is voted into HOF. Just my two cents worth.


39 posted on 01/07/2014 2:18:53 PM PST by Ticonderoga34
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To: EveningStar
Maddux’s old pitching coach is on the radio in Atlanta and he talks about all the great Braves pitchers frequently. Maddux would give up a hit on a specific pitch in June to set the batter up for the playoffs in October. He was a savant with an 82 MPH fastball. Even Barry Bonds joked about swinging at pitches two feet outside and in the dirt because Maddux would baffle you.
40 posted on 01/07/2014 2:22:36 PM PST by Pan_Yan (Who told you that you were naked? Genesis 3:11)
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To: EveningStar

PED’s and player’s greed has made the Hall of Fame irrelevant.
I guess I grew up loving baseball at the wrong time. I remember when players had to have an off season job to survive and played for the love of the game.


41 posted on 01/07/2014 2:35:00 PM PST by golf lover (goingf)
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To: EveningStar

Jack Morris played into the mid-90’s...isn’t that part of the “steroid era”?


42 posted on 01/07/2014 2:41:05 PM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: EveningStar

ok so Greg Maddux will still very deservedly be in the hall.


43 posted on 01/07/2014 2:43:18 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: usconservative
So they're all guilty by association?

Perhaps he figures that even if the clean players weren't using roids, they at least knew about it....and by not saying anything, the use of roids perpetuated.

44 posted on 01/07/2014 2:46:08 PM PST by hecticskeptic
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To: EveningStar

I’m mixed....

I do love DiMaggio


45 posted on 01/07/2014 2:47:58 PM PST by wardaddy (wifey instructed me today to grow chapter president beard back again....i wonder why?)
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To: EveningStar

One thing I like about baseball is that their Hall of fame is more prestigious than the other Sports.


46 posted on 01/07/2014 2:56:42 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Obama is very angry and will get to the bottom of it.)
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To: EveningStar

One more reason why the Baseball Hall of Fame should now include television and radio broadcasters who have broadcast baseball games for 15 years or more. Broadcasters—who have actually seen the players in the field of play—are better judges of who belongs in the Hall of Fame than a large fraction of the BBWAA, in my humble opinion!


47 posted on 01/07/2014 2:56:50 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: golf lover

I’m asking this question in all seriousness: When did they actually play for the love of the game? I’ve been following baseball since the 1960’s and they were all “greedy b-st-rds who didn’t play for the love of the game like in the old days” or at least that’s what people were saying back then.


48 posted on 01/07/2014 4:38:01 PM PST by perez24 (Dirty deeds, done dirt cheap.)
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To: EveningStar

I think the guy is being a jerk, but I don’t think the players can complain about it. They could have made a stink about body morphing PEDS back then, they chose not to do so. They sacrificed the guy that never got called up but might have if it wasn’t for someone else using PEDS in the bigs. In return, they got generally higher salaries as the abusers got big contracts and drove the average salary across the board up. If it really mattered about a supposed non-user all time great like Maddux not getting 100% then they should have done something different. They should have done something different if they didn’t want this logjam with a good chance of deserving players not making it at all as everyone starts splitting their votes between suspected/known user greats and non-top tier HFers.

It’s still the only Hall of Fame that matters pretty much, and no it is far from perfect.

Freegards


49 posted on 01/07/2014 5:26:28 PM PST by Ransomed
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To: RayChuang88

That’s a great point, folks who actually watch games. Some of the statistical analysis guys should probably get votes as well.

Freegards


50 posted on 01/07/2014 5:27:56 PM PST by Ransomed
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