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The Net Neutrality Lobby Is Like a Frog
WSJ On-Line ^ | 1/17/2014 | Holman W. Jenkins, Jr.

Posted on 01/18/2014 11:22:05 PM PST by Pontiac

What the net-neut obsessives refuse to recognize is that anticompetitive intent isn't worth worrying about if an anticompetitive result isn't possible.

If AT&T were "double-dipping," or charging sender and recipient for the same data, as some allege, its rivals would quickly copy its innovation and compete away any excess revenues.

If AT&T were to degrade websites that don't pay up, its rivals would pounce and steal AT&T's dissatisfied customers.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Computers/Internet; TV/Movies
KEYWORDS: att; broadband; cellphones; comcast; dataplan; dataplans; dsl; fiberoptics; google; internet; lte; metropcs; mobilephones; netflix; netneutrality; sprint; tmobile; verizon; youtube
ISPs are just like anything else; competition drives product improvement and lower prices.
1 posted on 01/18/2014 11:22:05 PM PST by Pontiac
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To: catnipman; Slambat; Celtic Conservative; JerseyHighlander; cynwoody; AnotherUnixGeek; MrShoop; ...

Net-neut Ping


2 posted on 01/18/2014 11:28:32 PM PST by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

It’s a trap. Net neutrality is just another way for the government to get its finger into the pie while pretending to protect joe citizen from evil corporations.


3 posted on 01/18/2014 11:34:39 PM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Pontiac
If CEO pay is completely unrelated to corporate performance, then the market will see to it that CEO pay is reduced (as there is no correlation between CEO pay and corporate performance) or redistributed to higher performing CEOs.

Oh wait, that isn't happening...

I wonder why?

4 posted on 01/18/2014 11:35:45 PM PST by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Pontiac

Most people have 2 choices, and if they are lucky 3. Even if you have 4, that is definitionally an oligopoly. You don’t get good competitive results in those situations.. I have two choices, Comcast, and AT&T DSL. If I want more than ~7mbps, my only choice is Comcast. They can do almost anything, including block Netflix or Youtube, and I’d probably stick with them instead of downgrading to AT&T. That gives them tremendous power to extort Netflix and YouTube, and any up and coming entrepreneur.


5 posted on 01/18/2014 11:36:58 PM PST by MrShoop
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To: MrShoop

I live in rural Oregon and I have over a half dozen choices. We just dumped CenturyLink for a smaller hungrier locally owned provider.


6 posted on 01/18/2014 11:48:52 PM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

“I live in rural Oregon and I have over a half dozen choices. We just dumped CenturyLink for a smaller hungrier locally owned provider.”

If 5 decide to not carry Free Republic how many choices do you have?


7 posted on 01/18/2014 11:53:15 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: ifinnegan

Do you really think ISP’s plan to filter for content and why? Why would they bother and how will they monetize it.

Filter will require effort, as in somebody designing and programming the filters and equipment to run it on. It will cost them money... now tell me how they will make money off of that.

Because I can assure you, that somebody will immediately go into business offering unfettered access.

Once you let the gov’t get their regulatory hooks into it, they will find a never ending stream of “issues” to micromanage. All of them will involve fees and licenses the ISP’s will then pass on to us.


8 posted on 01/19/2014 12:04:25 AM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1
> I live in rural Oregon and I have over a half dozen choices.

Must be nice.

I live in rural upstate NY and have exactly ONE choice, Frontier DSL, at 3Mb down, 0.3Mb up.

Yeah, in theory there's satellite but in practice the huge latency makes most of the work I do over the net utterly impossible (live conferencing, among other things).

Net neutrality is my only hope of not getting totally screwed, if Frontier or its upstream decide to cut my content.

It's easy to talk about competition when there is some. It's harder when it's non-existent.

9 posted on 01/19/2014 2:40:28 AM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is...sounding pretty good about now.)
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To: Pontiac

And even as they struggle to control the internet, the antinet, the othernet and the undernet are thriving. The cybernetic underground is picking up steam and innovating at a rapid pace because of their intrusive, heavy-handed tactics. And it’s so below their conventional radar that they can’t even detect it.


10 posted on 01/19/2014 3:29:09 AM PST by jespasinthru (Proud member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

“Oh wait, that isn’t happening...”

Because CEO jobs can frequently be compared with crony capitalism. Let’s say you and I and a half dozen of our buddies are on the board of six companies. Being on the board is anywhere from $50,000 to, say $200,000 a year for our services. We then make each other CEO’s of these companies and take home anywhere from $1 million to many millions. It’s not about profits or protecting the little shareholders. It’s about the six of us buddies getting rich. That’s why you see such awesome golden parachutes and go-away packages.


11 posted on 01/19/2014 3:38:41 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Pontiac
" ISPs are just like anything else; competition drives product improvement and lower prices."

Yeah, we have all of one or two around here(depending on your location - none), unless you like dialup....

12 posted on 01/19/2014 5:06:19 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: jespasinthru

Can you explain in greater detail, please?


13 posted on 01/19/2014 5:14:19 AM PST by EEGator
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To: Valpal1
I live in rural Oregon and I have over a half dozen choices

These are broadband suppliers not dial-up? You're very lucky.

14 posted on 01/19/2014 5:24:03 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: jespasinthru

I remember IRC text chat back in the day.
Fast, easy to use and widespread.
Would like to investigate current uses a bit more.

Emoji’s and other new text pictograph variants are adding new life to an old friend.

Ain’t modern technology grand?


15 posted on 01/19/2014 6:53:50 AM PST by Macoozie (1) Win the Senate 2) Repeal Obamacare 3) Impeach Roberts)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Buh-bye NN.

Thanks Pontiac.


16 posted on 01/19/2014 6:57:17 AM PST by SunkenCiv (;http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Pontiac

Well put.

T-Mobile recently started a new practice of buying out people’s remaining contracts with other vendors, basically analogous to those “slamming” wars between long distance providers twenty or so years ago, back when long distance service was debundled by the courts and profitable. Now long distance service is nearly meaningless, almost like complimentary continental breakfast.

Toll-free numbers went through a massive boom over ten years ago, to the point where 888, and then 866, area codes had to be added in. Now, mobile phone plans treat long distance numbers with, uh, neutrality, which will put pressure on toll-free vendors, i.e., land line companies, at a time when they really don’t need any more pressure. :’)


17 posted on 01/19/2014 7:13:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv (;http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Straight Vermonter; dayglored

Yes, broadband. If you have a phone line and tv cable to your home you already have two choices right there and I’m betting there are multiple providers for either type, plus wireless and satellite. That’s four types and multiple sellers for all of them.

We just dropped our landline and dsl for wireless dsl that is $112 quarterly or $400 if you pay annually. Their transmitter is on top of the local grain elevator so coverage is excellent and it’s as fast as the high speed dsl was. Best part of wireless is being able to rearrange the furniture any time I want and not having to have the desktop PC forced to be where ever the cable is.

With the new BPL (Broadband over Power Lines) technology, there will be even more competition in the future.

I suggest you do a google search for ISP’s for your zipcode and see if there are providers you are just not aware of.


18 posted on 01/19/2014 9:50:39 AM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

We have monopoly cable and phone here, no competition. DSL can only be generously called broadband, wireless (cell) and satellite are available but are cost prohibitive. So from a practical standpoint there is one choice.

I have little doubt that the price I am paying now (as a heavy streamer) is going to increase as a result of this ruling. I don’t care if businesses charge whatever the market will bear but when the state gives them a monopoly then it’s not a market any longer.


19 posted on 01/19/2014 10:17:49 AM PST by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Federal regulation is not going to overcome your problem of state cronyism and regulatory capture that creates high bars to potential competitors entering into the market.

Letting the Feebs get their dirty fingers into the pie will just add a whole new category of compliance costs, payola and cronyism.


20 posted on 01/19/2014 10:29:35 AM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1
I am not as concerened about the marketing aspects, I fear the selective editing as a means to control information

My biggest fear out of this ruling is that the internet will become like TV, with a network providing programming.

With the new ruling the ISP will be able to decide they do not want to run Freerepublic.com,and Drudgereport.com, access denied, but they will run democratunderground.com and dailyKoss.com.(for example)

you can try to say then Freerepublic will just find another ISP, not likely when the statist monopoly owns the infrastructure.

#1 socialist goal is absolute control of information, then #2 the absolute control of production and distribution of wealth, #3 the absolute control of life and death (obamacare)

21 posted on 01/19/2014 2:16:35 PM PST by KTM rider
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To: Valpal1
I have a copper phone line, hence the DSL. It runs underground, 2000 feet up my hill along/under my driveway.

No cable, doesn't come close enough to allow me to fund the extra last-mile run required to get it to my residence.

No power lines, I'm off-grid.

No wireless, I'm out among the hills, no line of sight for beam antennae and 20 miles from the nearest wireless towers.

Satellite has huge and unpredictable latency (delay), making real-time voice (god forbid video) impossible. That's a considerable part of my internet usage, for work.

No, there's no hidden ISP that I'm not aware of.

Yes, there are cell towers, and I have a data plan with Verizon for my iPad, 1GB/month for $20, but the iPad doesn't do what a computer does for my work. I have the data plan for emergency email/skype for when the DSL goes down.

Now, you might argue that I've made my choices, by choosing to live in a rural area, away from urban services. But there may well come a time with the high number of connectivity options available in the cities doesn't look so good, when the cities collapse, and take the suburbs with them. Not saying it will happen, only that the landscape might change.

I live out here by choice, and chose it long before "preppers" and "SHTF" were common memes. I moved here because this is God's Country, and I'd rather be closer to Him and Nature, and have only one ISP, than have a bunch of ISPs but find it harder to hear God's voice among the city traffic.

22 posted on 01/19/2014 3:12:16 PM PST by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is...sounding pretty good about now.)
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