Now I get it.
Posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:31 PM PST by Kevmo
It’s Official US Startup Admits to Purchasing Rossi’s E-cat LENR Technology Published January 25, 2014 | By jennifer
A North Carolina based company called Industrial Heat LLC has come out and admitted that it now owns Andrea Rossi’s ecat low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) technology. Industrial Heat has put out a press release in which it confirmed rumors that it had spent $11 million to purchase Rossi’s device.
The New Home of the Ecat an aerial view of North Carolina's Research Triangle
The press release also confirmed speculation that Tom Darden of Cherokee Investment Partners a North Carolina equity fund is a principal investor in Industrial heat. It stated that one of Darden’s associates J.T. Vaughn is the manager of Industrial Heat LLC. Industrial Heat LLC is based in the Research Triangle region around Raleigh, North Carolina where many technology companies have operations. Cherokee’s website describes Vaughn as a Senior Analyst at the firm.
Tom Darden of Cherokee Investment Partners LLC, courtesy Bizjournals
Vaughn said that his company had acquired the intellectual property rights to the Ecat in the press release. Vaughn and Darden were convinced of the Ecat’s authenticity by a report prepared by physics professors Guiseppe Levi, Hanno Essen, Ronald Petterson, Torbojorn Hartman, Bo Hoistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegner. The scientists tested the ecat in December 2012 and March 2013 and observed its operations. Vaughn and Darden also had an unidentified independent expert exam the ecat before investing their money in it.
The press release stated that Industrial Heat has prepared numerous patent applications to protect ecat technology but wouldn’t’ elaborate. The release didn’t say if any of these applications have been filed or not.
“The world needs a new, clean and efficient energy source,” Vaugh said of his reasons for acquiring Ecat in the press release. “Such a technology would raise the standard of living in developing countries and reduce the environmental impact of producing energy.”
JT Vaugn Courtesy Pure Energy Systems and Sterling Allen
The press release stated that Industrial Heat wants to enter into partnerships with other companies, universities and nongovernment organizations (NGOs) to develop LENR technology. It didn’t identify any of these partners or mention any specific uses for Ecat technology.
Predictably and sadly the cold fusion skeptics have already started attacking Industrial Heat. The Gizmodo blog is claiming that Darden and Vaughn were bamboozled and bought a reactor that might not actually work. Typically the skeptics provide absolutely no proof for their accusations they just make them and hope nobody questions their statements. Those who criticize Rossi for not verifying claims turn around and do exactly the same thing.
Tom Darden
Vaughn and Darden seem like hardhead and sensible businessmen who have done their homework. They actually looked into Ecat and got the facts before investing. Gizmodo mentions Rossi’s criminal conviction but doesn’t mention the involvement of distinguished professors such as Guiseppe Levi in the ecat project.
Industrial Heat’s confirmation is very good news, despite the skeptics. It’s the biggest investment so far in cold fusion and it proves there are far sighted businessmen interested in commercializing this important technology. Hopefully Industrial Heat will be able to commercialize the Ecat and looking into other LENR devices such as those at Brillouin.
Blah, blah, blah. I see you're back in full seagull mode.
"Not one demo that Rossi did was out of his control and manipulation. The demo with the hot-cat is equally suspicious, I'm not an expert on nuclear reactions but I damn well am an expert at electronics and yes that too is an appeal to authority.
And I am damn well an expert at many different forms of measurement, not just electrical.
"Why did he use two phases of a three phase system to heat his hot-cat?
I have no idea, and mostly don't care.
"There's no reason to, to calculate A/C power you need to break out some trig and you have to understand the entire system including the impedance of the power supply. Use D/C and simple algebra will suffice and it will be accurate. So why did he use A/C and on top of that, it was modulated by triacs, do you know how much noise triacs create? That also increases complexity and makes actual power usage harder to calculate and what instruments did they use to determine power, clamp on meters (hint, the triacs screw up the readings), this is real science to you? No, that's all wrong. Rossi says (there's that phrase again) that the resisters(heaters) are needed to kick off the reaction and modulate it with the implied possibility of a run away reaction if the resisters aren't on. I'll leave the fact that it has been said he needs the resisters ON to stop a runaway reaction to a later time. What would have been easier and accurate would be to use D/C, run it through a transistor, a small current from the emitter to the base would modulate the transistor from off to full conduction to control the resister. Then you use an inline ammeter or one across a 1ohm resister to determine current. Use a DMM to measure voltage, voltage times current equals wattage, it doesn't get any simpler.
My guess is that it is how Rossi knew to do it. My take is that Rossi is not the best designer of control mechanisms. There is some evidence from other researchers that an oscillating field assists the LENR process.
"So, why did he use two phases of a three phase power system, it isn't easier to setup, it sure isn't easier to determine the power in so what are we left with, I say deception."
Speculation, pure and simple.
"And how did they determine how much heat the hot-cat was putting out, an infrared thermometer.
What is supposed to be wrong with using an IR thermometer??
"Weren't you the one who said he needed to do proper calorimetry but suddenly an infrared thermometer is good enough?
No, I wasn't "the one who said" that. Another case of you remembering incorrectly.
"Don't you have to assume some things when you do a black body calculation such as emissivity and didn't they use the number that gave them the best results?
Uh, they stuck a tag of known emissivity on the side of the hot-cat. Problem was that it didn't "stick" through the whole run, but certainly sufficiently long to calibrate the IR. And as I recall, the assumptions they used were WORST CASE, not best.
"In the past, Rossi used some suspiciously placed thermocouples so we know he knows they exist, why wasn't there one on the hot cat?
There was. It served as a second calibration for the IR unit, but could only give a single point reading. The IR unit gave the full thermal profile.
"Never mind the fact that it was running when the team got there, there being Rossi's 'lab' including Rossi's buddy Levy.
And this matters why? There is no evidence that Levi was "bought" by Rossi. Again, pure speculation.
"Yeah, as you huffed, it was all kosher according to you.
According to best evidence, yes.
The observers had full access to all parts of the equipment, including the inside of the power box.
Your whole case is speculation and assumptions.
Time. I've given my science credentials....let's hear yours.
"I realize you must go through some serious cognitive dissonance to say that Rossi is on the up and up and it is affecting your postings. Now you're taking everything personal when you started out you were basically talking about the science.
You're the one who brought up the social connections and insisted that that is all that matters, and that all else is to be ignored.
"It must be a struggle to be a Rossi apologist knowing what you know. The first time you sell your soul it is hard but in time, it gets easier and easier and your posts get angrier and angrier not to mention snippier.
I am not, and never have been, a "Rossi apologist". I make my decisions based on the totality of the data available. You apparently make yours only on the latest crime report.
I am certainly not going to deny the existence of hard data when it "is" available. And a great deal of data "is" available.
You talked about "handwaving". The "handwaving" that has been done in an attempt to discredit the hard physical test data generates a breeze strong than Hurricane Katrina.
Now I get it.
Flyin High again...
And I am damn well an expert at many different forms of measurement, not just electrical.
Ooh, a one upmanship, you gonna unzip and tell us how big your brain is next?
Not for nothing but it might help to say what other forms of measurement you are an expert in unless you want us to assume that it includes whatever area this discussion goes to. Now you wouldn't use such a lame tactic, sound off like you got a pair.
I have no idea, and mostly don't care.
I'm a scientist and I follow the data, except when I don't. Nice Dodge, it got a hemi?
My guess is that it is how Rossi knew to do it. My take is that Rossi is not the best designer of control mechanisms. There is some evidence from other researchers that an oscillating field assists the LENR process.
When I started in electronics, I started off in D/C, you have to crawl before you can walk so he skips the method that allows simple math and goes deep requiring vector math to get near the correct number, sorry, no sale.
My guess is that it is how Rossi knew to do it. My take is that Rossi is not the best designer of control mechanisms. There is some evidence from other researchers that an oscillating field assists the LENR process.
As I said previously, he took a leap over the easy method, doesn't make sense. You might be on to something about oscillating fields seeing how his secret sauce is no longer mentioned.
Speculation, pure and simple.
Guilty as charged, but I have laid out a logical reason for my speculation,yes?
No, I wasn't "the one who said" that. Another case of you remembering incorrectly.
I don't really want to search through three years of posts but I'm pretty sure it was you who said the ideal method would be water bath calorimetry. But I'll take you at your word that it wasn't you . This might be a good time to say what other areas of measurement you're an expert in.
Uh, they stuck a tag of known emissivity on the side of the hot-cat. Problem was that it didn't "stick" through the whole run, but certainly sufficiently long to calibrate the IR. And as I recall, the assumptions they used were WORST CASE, not best.
To the net...
While Science Blog may not have the same cachet as http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/ snicker. Mining the article I found this nugget:
During the coil ON states, the instantaneous power absorbed by the E-Cat HT2 and the control box together was visible on the PCE-830 LCD display. This value, with some fluctuations in time, remained in any case within a range of 910-930 W. By checking the video image relevant to the PCE-830 LCD display, we were also able to estimate the length of the ON/OFF intervals: with reference to the entire duration of the test, the resistor coils were on for about 35% of the time, and off for the remaining 65%.
Wait, I thought they calculated 360 watts of power in, ah A/C math, so easy to misinterpret.
Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive, Walter Scott.
And this matters why? There is no evidence that Levi was "bought" by Rossi. Again, pure speculation.
Don't be coy, you know exactly what I'm saying here. Levi is a friend of Rossi. I'm also an expert on human nature and no way was Levy, Rossi's friend going to sandbag Rossi's demo and I would go farther and speculate he's part of it. While it may not be impropriety, it sure smells like it.
I think it's wrong and not how science is done, you know like you used to do before selling part of your soul, I hope you got a good price, wait, you gave it away for free and you didn't even know it, awesome. You realize the more you rationalize this, the remaining pieces of your soul dies. Luckily for me, mine died a long time ago.
The observers had full access to all parts of the equipment, including the inside of the power box. Your whole case is speculation and assumptions.
The unit was running when they arrived. Take a gander at the link I posted.
Let's see, Rossi sets up the test and has it running when the 'independent' wink wink testers showed up.
From the link above:
“… the E-Cat HT was already running when the test began…” “…it was not possible to inspect the inside of the control box…”
Um, you were saying? Were you perhaps speculating? Everything you say is speculation and assumptions but it's ok when you do it, you're a professional.
Speaking of which, I assume you have a heavy duty degree that you spent a lot of money and time on and am rightly proud of it. So, what do you think of Rossi getting a PhD by mailing a check to a diploma mill? That feeling, it's cognitive dissonance, it's your brain trying to tell you you're on a fool's errand and I don't take you for a fool.
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified?
You're the one who brought up the social connections and insisted that that is all that matters, and that all else is to be ignored.
I see words and evidence of sentence structure but it's all sound and fury signifying nothing, are you replying to the correct person?
I am not, and never have been, a "Rossi apologist". I make my decisions based on the totality of the data available. You apparently make yours only on the latest crime report.
I am certainly not going to deny the existence of hard data when it "is" available. And a great deal of data "is" available.
You talked about "handwaving". The "handwaving" that has been done in an attempt to discredit the hard physical test data generates a breeze strong than Hurricane Katrina.
You know, when I first started reading your posts I respected you. Then you got personal and attacked people who didn't buy into you blurry version of reality and now you're spiraling down the rabbit hole.
I think the best thing would be for you to abstain from these threads and read a good book, because I care. I'm a people person I can't help being so generous with my time and advice.
“Financial fraud, not technical.”
Yep. I will definitely give my money to a dude that was in jail for four years for FINANCIAL fraud ...
“Nope. I’ve read the government issued report on his thermal converter experiment. I see no evidence of fraud.”
‘Nope. I’ve read the government issued report on his thermal converter experiment. I see no evidence of it.’
Fixed.
“Your whole case is speculation and assumptions. “
Your whole case is speculation and assumptions.
I design measurement instrumentation for a living. My PhD is in analytical chemistry. My background includes pretty much every chemical measurement available from atomic spectroscopy, many areas of molecular spectroscopy, mass spectroscopy, gas chromatography, many types of thermal analysis (including calorimetry), laser fluorescence, sensor design and development (got a R&D100 for that). I have also used most types of nuclear instrumentation (GM tubes, proportional counters, Na(Tl)I scintillation, Si-Li solid state devices, liquid scintillation. Spent a summer doing carbon age dating. Currently, I am part owner of my own company which does chemical analysis by microfluidics. Our biggest project was to design the microfluidics "engine" used in a soon-to-be deployed biowarfare instrument (got another R&D 100 for that one). That one got me into biochemical analysis (polymerase chain reaction) and others. We are currently at work on miniaturized autonomous instruments for deployment in oceanographic work for deployment on ship-board and later on buoys and "robotic divers.
That wide diversity of knowledge is why I went into analytical chemistry in the first place...there are lots of areas of technology that working in it let you dig deeply into.
I'm a scientist and I follow the data, except when I don't. Nice Dodge, it got a hemi?
Rossi set the system up the way he chose to. Why he made certain choices may have been a simple as the three phase circuit was the highest power one where he was working. I don't know, and short of emailing him no way to find out.
But at least one of the demos had an oscilloscope on the output of his control box monitoring the power feed to his reactor. This was one of the first two trials in Bologna. Said oscilloscope is not mentioned in the reports from those, but it was there and working, so the witnesses had access to the wave-form feeding the reactor.
"When I started in electronics, I started off in D/C, you have to crawl before you can walk so he skips the method that allows simple math and goes deep requiring vector math to get near the correct number, sorry, no sale.
Again, his choice. If you want to know....ask him.
"As I said previously, he took a leap over the easy method, doesn't make sense.
Again, his choice. It obviously made sense to him.
"Guilty as charged, but I have laid out a logical reason for my speculation,yes?
No.
"I don't really want to search through three years of posts but I'm pretty sure it was you who said the ideal method would be water bath calorimetry. But I'll take you at your word that it wasn't you . This might be a good time to say what other areas of measurement you're an expert in.
It wasn't me. I'm familiar with all the forms of calorimetry used, any of them can deliver the goods.
"During the coil ON states, the instantaneous power absorbed by the E-Cat HT2 and the control box together was visible on the PCE-830 LCD display. This value, with some fluctuations in time, remained in any case within a range of 910-930 W. By checking the video image relevant to the PCE-830 LCD display, we were also able to estimate the length of the ON/OFF intervals: with reference to the entire duration of the test, the resistor coils were on for about 35% of the time, and off for the remaining 65%.
What, exactly does this have to do with the calibration of the IR camera and how it was calibrated.
"Don't be coy, you know exactly what I'm saying here. Levi is a friend of Rossi.
No, Levi was a friend of FOCARDI. There is zip evidence that Rossi even knew Levi before the demonstration(s). They may well have become friends since.
"I'm also an expert on human nature and no way was Levy, Rossi's friend going to sandbag Rossi's demo and I would go farther and speculate he's part of it. While it may not be impropriety, it sure smells like it.
Oh, please. A key part of being a scientist is exactly to rise above your "human nature" and maintain a dispassionate and impartial scrutiny of the data. The only thing you "smell" is your upper lip.
"I think it's wrong and not how science is done, you know like you used to do before selling part of your soul, I hope you got a good price, wait, you gave it away for free and you didn't even know it, awesome. You realize the more you rationalize this, the remaining pieces of your soul dies. Luckily for me, mine died a long time ago.
Stupidity.
"“… the E-Cat HT was already running when the test began…” “…it was not possible to inspect the inside of the control box…”
For that single test. You conveniently forget that there were several demos, for which the observers "did" have full access to the control system.
"Um, you were saying? Were you perhaps speculating?
Uh, no. See above point. Unless you think Rossi re-designed his control system differently for every test.
"So, what do you think of Rossi getting a PhD by mailing a check to a diploma mill?"
Another social argument. I have no idea why he did. But it is basically irrelevant to analyzing the data from the different tests.
"That feeling, it's cognitive dissonance, it's your brain trying to tell you you're on a fool's errand and I don't take you for a fool."
Want to see a fool?? Look in your mirror.
That is actually pretty impressive. So, why did you chuck all that away and begin praying at the alter of Rossi?
Rossi set the system up the way he chose to. Why he made certain choices may have been a simple as the three phase circuit was the highest power one where he was working. I don't know, and short of emailing him no way to find out.
Not curious at all, it all makes perfect sense, yes? You are bsing me, you don't find that curious at all, you would accept that excuse from a coworker and maybe we should ask Rossi himself why he made such a hash of a simple experiment? He only answers fawning letters so you are in a unique place in this regard, hop to it.
But at least one of the demos had an oscilloscope on the output of his control box monitoring the power feed to his reactor. This was one of the first two trials in Bologna. Said oscilloscope is not mentioned in the reports from those, but it was there and working, so the witnesses had access to the wave-form feeding the reactor.
An oscilloscope is a tool, not a panacea. Was it set correctly? Correct time base, trigger set on the correct waveform. I've got a Tek 7904a and every 7000 series module that comes with it and guess what, it's a 500mhz scope but select the one time base and one vertical amp for the slower 7000 series that I have and you only see the low frequency waveform. A scope isn't a magic box, it has to be read. Again, this sounds like a cynical attempt to appear legit.
Again, his choice. If you want to know....ask him.
Lets look at this. I ask him, and he's not going to say, hey, you caught me, I am scamming, really lame and should be beneath you but I guess there's no limit to the depths of human depravity when your reality is slipping away.
Again, his choice. It obviously made sense to him.
Too bad it doesn't make sense to anyone else except for his cheer leading squad.
Me"Guilty as charged, but I have laid out a logical reason for my speculation,yes?
You: No. It's pretty obvious you will go to any lengths to support Rossi. Allow me a little analysis. You've always been smarter than most people and you obviously have an education but you also have an arrogance about you that us unwashed masses cannot know what you and Rossi seem to know and understand. Pretty typical if not pedantic and pathetic. Rule#1, there's always someone bigger, smarter or badder.
What, exactly does this have to do with the calibration of the IR camera and how it was calibrated.
That's laid out in the article, I just thought it was too funny how 900 watts becomes 360 watts. It's not who votes who counts but who counts the votes.
Stupidity.
And here I thought we understood each other, I shall forever be shamed by your one word put down, oh my.
No, Levi was a friend of FOCARDI. There is zip evidence that Rossi even knew Levi before the demonstration(s). They may well have become friends since.
You were saying?
Oh, please. A key part of being a scientist is exactly to rise above your "human nature" and maintain a dispassionate and impartial scrutiny of the data. The only thing you "smell" is your upper lip.
You know, for $5.95 and my ten page pamphlet, you too can use the tools of derision successfully.
For that single test. You conveniently forget that there were several demos, for which the observers "did" have full access to the control system.
Link please, can we get an amen on the number of tests conducted during May of 2013??? Seems rather nebulous to me, let's get the number of tests stipulated to so you don't have an out by way of the other test where everything went well.
Uh, no. See above point. Unless you think Rossi re-designed his control system differently for every test.
I actually do think that but not for the reason you think. Rossi isn't an idiot, just amoral so he listens to his critics and games the next test to quiet the critics of the last test. Scam is such a loaded word, how about fraud?
Another social argument. I have no idea why he did. But it is basically irrelevant to analyzing the data from the different tests.
Bollocks, I so love that word. You, who did put in the time for a real PhD have no problem with what Rossi did, you know, I think you're lying to yourself.
Want to see a fool?? Look in your mirror.
I would but I was in a horrible accident and can no longer face looking at myself, thank you for bringing up that painful memory.
It would have helped greatly to
***In other words, he gave crappy demos like I said.
After a while all the skeptics would have ran out of arguments.
***Rossi never cared about skeptics. He said that the proof would be in the pudding, when he sells units.
Well, hot fusion has one big excuse - nobody doubts that it works :-
***Then they should have been further along than these cold fusioneers. They have NO excuse.
Yes, it’s hard to control, but the foundation is solid,
***Then they have no excuse. They’ve been perpetuating a huge fraud.
and it is entirely described by existing physics.
***LENR has theories like that as well, such as the Widom-Larson theory.
I am not all that excited about waiting so long for my flying car, but at least it has potential.
***Yup, after those frauds burn through another $500B.
Will hot fusion reactor ever be done? I don’t know. Given enough time, yes. The Sun is pretty much under control; it’s just we don’t need a reactor that big :-
***So anyone pushing for a containment solution has been selling snake oil. They’re frauds.
Since I’m focused on practical assessment of a working device, it is not relevant to me what Rossi was convicted for. Rossi is not a product; his machine is. That’s why I want to see the working machine, not the credentials of its inventors.
***That’s the proper attitude of a true skeptic.
Basically, the $11M gets them in the game. They own Computerland, not Apple Computer. Apple didn’t give up any rights to their IP when they helped get Computerland going. If Computerland failed, they had plenty of other options (and Computerland did fail).
I doubt very highly that they own all of Rossi’s IP. They probably own a certain percentage of it and are going to be giving him royalties for every unit sold.
It’s a little bit like when Bill Gates sold BASIC to MITS. He retained the rights and MITS was obligated to put their best efforts into selling it. That was the lawsuit that Gates won against MITS, because they were not putting their best efforts into it and he was free to sell it to whomever he wanted.
Rossi’s buddy Levi
***Levi didn’t start out as his buddy. He was very skeptical at first.
http://coldfusion3.com/blog/giuseppe-levi-goes-on-record-to-discuss-e-cat
• He has worked with Focardi on other projects and respects him.
• Levi has been following Rossi and Focardi’s work for three years but only examined the e-cat itself on December 16, 2010. He did extensive testing of the e-cat and apparently believes Rossi’s claims.
• Levi is a member of the US group the Skeptic’s Society and he applied their “baloney detector kit.” (A set of parameters for the detection of fraud developed by the late Carl Sagan) to the e-cat and found it was not baloney.
• Levi said he investigated the e-cat because it is his duty as a scientist. He also wanted to protect the University of Bologna’s reputation from a possible fraud.
• Levi did admit that the e-cat was developed in what he called an “industrial” and not a research environment.
• The January e-cat news conference and demonstration by Rossi and Focardi was done in order to show the scientific community the validity of the e-cat and protect Focardi’s reputation.
• Levi seems to be concerned about Focardi’s reputation and is trying to protect it.
• Levi said other scientists including chemists have examined the e-cat and verified some of the results.
Levi also gave some interesting quotes in response to Krivit’s questions.
When asked why he investigated the e-cat, Levi said: “You must go and look by yourself. It is one of my duties I am a researcher I am paid by public money. Something very important was going on with the name of the University of Bologna. It was my duty to know if it was something real. If it is something real we must make research on it.”
When asked if the e-cat represents a new physics or not, Levi said: “There is not a new quantum mechanics but some new phenomenon.”
Persons who want to make up their mind should definitely take a look at all five parts of Levi’s interview. Skeptics and those interested in the science will find it a real eye opener (source Rossifocardifusion.com).
People have continuously said Rossi can’t be a scammer because he wasn’t looking for money, well, that theory is out the window.
***I would agree that this pushes it to the next level, where you examine the credentials of those who are supposedly being scammed. Vaughn’s credentials are strong.
The point is, he wasn’t born yesterday. He saw the demo, had it tested by his expert, and then reached for his checkbook.
In other words, it was a crappy demo, just like I’ve been saying.
How high up does this go, Obama, it’s Obama right or aliens.
***On the converse side, we have conspiracy theories that reach across decades of 14,700 faked replications, 7 independent scientists conspiring with Rossi, Defkalion conspiring with Rossi, Rossi being such an amazing demo scam artist that he can fool people even when he isn’t in the room and can rearrange the demo in anticipation of what & how things would be tested, and even FReepers claiming that I signed up 15 years ago just so I could front this supposed scam.
ridiculous demos he did?
***In other words, crappy demos. He gave crappy demos. The fraud angle requires that he would be so masterful a magician (while not even being in the room) that he pulls the wool over 7 PhD scientists and others.
It’s far easier to believe what you just said: He gave ridiculous demos.
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