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Catholics 'divided on issues such as divorce and birth control'
The Telegraph ^ | February 9,2014 | Tom Kington Rome

Posted on 02/18/2014 7:09:02 AM PST by metmom

Catholics are divided on issues such as divorce and birth control amid widespread resentment at Church teachings among believers, two separate surveys have revealed.

In a rare bid for openness, the Vatican sent out a survey to parishes around the world in November, ahead of a synod due to discuss the family this October.

Results from several countries have now been released, showing that, in Switzerland, 90 per cent of respondents demanded the Church lifts its refusal to give communion to divorcees who remarry.

Results are also in from Germany, where bishops said the survey showed that Catholics view the communion ban for divorcees as "unjustified discrimination and ... merciless". German respondents also rejected Church bans on premarital and gay sex and birth control.

Church-backed news service SIR reported that Swiss respondents were in "dramatic disagreement" with the Church's ban on contraception, while the Catholic Church in Luxembourg warned results from the survey were "alarming" and showed the importance given to church teaching was in "free fall".

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


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1 posted on 02/18/2014 7:09:02 AM PST by metmom
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To: metmom

Those that are divided are dividing themselves from GOD.


2 posted on 02/18/2014 7:12:44 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: LibLieSlayer

Seems there are Kennedy-Pelosi-Kerry Catholics all around the world. CINOs.


3 posted on 02/18/2014 7:14:04 AM PST by NewCenturions
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To: metmom

It’s becoming rather interesting to watch the RCC attempts to conform to society.


4 posted on 02/18/2014 7:21:41 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: CynicalBear
If this is true of the RCC, there is only 1/2 the population they claim.

You're either on the bus or off the bus and the Church bus is anti-abortion and anti-divorce ... period.

I'm no Catholic, but I know THAT about them.

My advice is to claim a smaller congregation and stand strong with what you've got ...

If God be for you, who can be against you ?

If God is not for you, you can claim 100% of the worlds population ... and you'd still lose.

5 posted on 02/18/2014 7:26:03 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: LibLieSlayer
"Those that are divided are dividing themselves from GOD."

II. Division – One of Jesus’ final prayers for us was that we would be one (cf John 17:22). He prayed this, at the Last Supper just before he went out to suffer and die for us. As such, he highlights that a chief aspect of his work on the Cross is to overcome the divisions intensified by Satan. Some argue that the Greek root of the word “diabolical” (diabolein) means to cut, tear, or divide. Jesus prays and works to reunify what the devil divides. - Msgr. Charles Pope

http://blog.adw.org/2013/07/four-common-tactics-of-the-devil/

6 posted on 02/18/2014 7:26:59 AM PST by BlatherNaut
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To: metmom

The MSM believes that the Catholic Church operates like a soulless politician. The MSM believes that the poll should be used to change church policy.

The MSM believes that absolute morals have been replaced by the morals of group-think. Of course the MSM likes group-think because the MSM is able to influence group-think.

The MSM couldn’t be more wrong about the Catholic Church.

The Church conducted the poll to assess what areas need teaching, where the Church has failed to properly express the reasons for its laws.


7 posted on 02/18/2014 7:27:44 AM PST by kidd
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To: CynicalBear

It’s interesting to watch the Church admit what we’ve been seeing all along.


8 posted on 02/18/2014 7:30:08 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom
CINOs are divided. Catholics are not.
9 posted on 02/18/2014 7:33:10 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: kidd

I honestly don’t give a rip about what the MSM has to say and what it wants.

It can go pound sand.

This poll was conducted by the Roman Catholic church itself and it DOES show that the Church has failed, despite what some others claim to the contrary.


10 posted on 02/18/2014 7:33:13 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: LibLieSlayer

As someone who is the was the forced into divorce by an intransigent spouse who did not want to seek counseling, started the divorce proceedings and just did not want to be in the marriage what is the Catholic answers to that scenario? What if I was Catholic I would not be able to receive communion? Would Christ himself have not given communion to someone in my predicament? Anyone with common sense would have to agree of course he would.

This is what happens when religions and self appointed oracles of Christian thought and doctrine fall back in Satan’s trap of self righteousness, false piety and strict adherence to law before Christ fulfillment of that very same law. Divorce is another one the Catholics don’t get, they put the blinders on and plug their ears. Its always easier to live in a black and white world, easier than critical thought, using the same intellect God gave us. God does not like divorce that is clear, and like most of God’s mandates there are very valid reasons and commons sense to them. God always knew a happy, healthy integrated family was best for rearing God fearing children. But he also knew and this is clear through his word, in the case of the 3 A’s(Abuse, Addiction and Adultery) or being unequally yoked he allows dispensation for divorce. Popes married until they could not marry, Popes give annulments for marriages(Even though no scriptural support for this), Popes have given communion to divorced peoples in the past...so to say the winds in Rome never change is wrong. I think the Pope should focus on the murder of unborn and excommunicating the unrepentant who support this ghastly crime. Has the Pope excommunicated Nancy Pelosi yet...hmmmmmmmmmmm. No because lecturing the dolts on divorce and gossiping and is much easier than taking a stronger stand against murder..just like Pious in the 30’s and 40’s....


11 posted on 02/18/2014 7:33:45 AM PST by pburgh01
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To: metmom

Hasn’t this been debunked multiple times? There is no such survey.


12 posted on 02/18/2014 7:34:35 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: knarf

>> the Church bus is anti-abortion and anti-divorce ... period.<<

It seems times are a changing!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3124089/posts


13 posted on 02/18/2014 7:35:09 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: metmom

You watch. They will do whatever is necessary to maintain numbers. Incorporating pagan beliefs got them to the numbers they have. It’s not difficult to see that they will do whatever it takes.


14 posted on 02/18/2014 7:37:05 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Sources?


15 posted on 02/18/2014 7:37:36 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

This is hugh! Boy is this Sirius!

Just kidding. And according to the media, the Church is about to allow gay marriage, women priests, totalitarianism as the recommended form of government and the Republicans (especially conservatives) are about to fall off the face of the earth and BOTH GROUPS are better off to just abandon their principles.

I wonder how many marriages there would be left if one condition of staying married is that you have to agree with your spouse 100%.


16 posted on 02/18/2014 7:40:04 AM PST by ChinaGotTheGoodsOnClinton (Go Egypt on 0bama)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
CINOs are divided. Catholics are not.

And the fallout when a non-Catholic says the same thing shows the hypocrisy of that statement.

When born again believers state that someone who claims to be born again and evidences no change in their life is not saved in the first place, Catholics as a whole, demand that we own them.

They are unwilling to accept from others what they excuse in themselves.

Fine. I can accept and agree with the thinking that someone who claims to be Catholic and doesn't live as the Catholic church is a CINO.

However, when non-Catholics say that someone who professes Christ and continues to live a sinful lifestyle isn't really saved, is a *Christian in name only*, Catholics ought not to use that as evidence that Protestantism is flawed because not every one who claims to be Christian acts like it.

It happens every where in every church. No church is exempt from people being in it who are not saved and are just using religion as fire insurance.

17 posted on 02/18/2014 7:45:04 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom
It must be awfully tiring carrying that straw man around with you wherever you go.
18 posted on 02/18/2014 7:47:08 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
I can't believe you just said that.

You're a frikkin' DEMOCRAT !

19 posted on 02/18/2014 7:52:55 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

No. I’m not the one carrying it. I’ve gotten used to knocking it down though every time Catholics hypocritically condemn others for what they do themselves.


20 posted on 02/18/2014 7:58:51 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: knarf
I was responding to this statement:

When born again believers state that someone who claims to be born again and evidences no change in their life is not saved in the first place, Catholics as a whole, demand that we own them.

I take it you hate Catholics too?

21 posted on 02/18/2014 7:59:21 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: metmom

You’re the one who brought it up. I didn’t disparage your religion. You seem to have no problem gratuitously disparaging mine, though.


22 posted on 02/18/2014 8:00:40 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Nope ... but arrogant, lieing democrats that do nothing but use words to stir up strife and start or maintain division ... THEY can take a flying leap, as far as I’m concerned.


23 posted on 02/18/2014 8:06:29 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum; knarf

Why are Catholics so reluctant to courtesy ping someone they’re talking about or quoting?

It’s endemic amongst Catholics.

And how is pointing out facts about Catholic behavior *hating*?

You sound just like a liberal over the gay marriage issue.

Oh, you’re such a *hater*..... (whine)


24 posted on 02/18/2014 8:10:58 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I don’t have a religion. I have a relationship.

Religion doesn’t save anyone. Being reconciled to God and becoming His daughter is what does.


25 posted on 02/18/2014 8:12:27 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

Good for you. I didn’t criticize you. Interesting that you felt compelled to criticize me.


26 posted on 02/18/2014 8:20:45 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: NewCenturions

Always been this way. This isn’t news; its a rehash the Atheist socialists love to pull out at least once or twice a year.


27 posted on 02/18/2014 8:20:58 AM PST by Rich21IE
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To: metmom
What "fact" are you referring to?

Bigoted generalizations are not "facts."

28 posted on 02/18/2014 8:21:32 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: CynicalBear
You watch. They will do whatever is necessary to maintain numbers. Incorporating pagan beliefs got them to the numbers they have. It’s not difficult to see that they will do whatever it takes.

Exactly...They will cave on marriage and a few other issues to keep the boat afloat...There's far, far too many billions of dollars involved to sink the ship...

They will lean a little more liberal and a little more izlamic so that all (most) will be of one mind, as they falsely claim Jesus instructed them...

What could seal the deal is a couple of ex-cathedra ramblings by the holy father...

29 posted on 02/18/2014 8:40:02 AM PST by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: metmom
Catholics 'divided on issues such as divorce and birth control'

Duh...

30 posted on 02/18/2014 8:50:57 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
CINOs are divided. Catholics are not.

Sounds like the old Baptist refrain: "they wuz never saved to begin with."

31 posted on 02/18/2014 8:52:22 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Do you?


32 posted on 02/18/2014 8:54:52 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: metmom

I stand corrected.

After REPEATEDLY being told by reliable sources within the Church that this survey was an urban legend, it appears they ARE actually doing it.

One can only hope it is to establish a baseline of how far the flock has strayed and not a moist finger in the wind for setting future policy.

The fact that they were so evasive about it gives me pause.


33 posted on 02/18/2014 10:49:15 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Buckeye McFrog

It seems that your reliable sources are not so reliable.

It begins to appear that there is a reason that the flock is so off course.

Time will tell with what is done with this survey.

It looks like y’all have some interesting times ahead of you and maybe some decisions to make. What do you do if they don’t come back to the their teachings, but try to change them?


34 posted on 02/18/2014 10:54:49 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

What I think that it actually shows is that people want their religion to be what they want it to be, that’s why we have so many denominations.

When Jesus talked about Himself being the bread of life many of his followers were scandalized and walked away.

“Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. “

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

They were looking for their Savior and looking right at Him and they walked away because God’s omnipotence was beyond their understanding.

Some of the theology of the Catholic church is hard to understand but we follow the Apostles who remained with Jesus and who knew and replied, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”

There are “hard teachings”, but like Peter before us we stay because we recognize our Savior.

For those ACTIVE Catholics who have beliefs contrary to Catholic theology-well, they are in the right place, they are in the place where Truth is taught and God willing the Holy Spirit will touch their hearts and give them understanding. I will continue to trust Jesus for their salvation as well as my own.


35 posted on 02/18/2014 11:19:30 AM PST by tiki
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To: metmom

If these people don’t agree with Catholic (or Christian for that matter) teachings, why don’t they just leave?


36 posted on 02/18/2014 11:28:26 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: LibLieSlayer; metmom
Those that are divided are dividing themselves from GOD.

Without siding with them, what is your basis for determining Truth, and assurance of it?

37 posted on 02/18/2014 11:48:46 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Hasn’t this been debunked multiple times? There is no such survey.

Typical RC reaction, or else it was biased.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/11/vatican-releases-full-text-of-document-and-survey-questions-for-2014-synod-of-bishops-on-the-family/

38 posted on 02/18/2014 11:58:30 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: GeronL

Fire insurance.....


39 posted on 02/18/2014 11:58:48 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: daniel1212; Buckeye McFrog

See post 33.


40 posted on 02/18/2014 11:59:28 AM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: kidd
The MSM couldn’t be more wrong about the Catholic Church.

But it is correct in reporting the condition of Catholics, which RCs regularly deny here, or attempt to exclude the liberals whom Rome treats as her own.

41 posted on 02/18/2014 11:59:41 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: metmom
It’s interesting to watch the Church admit what we’ve been seeing all along.

For years when i posted them .

42 posted on 02/18/2014 12:00:45 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
CINOs are divided. Catholics are not.

But you are not the magisterium, and Rome treats them as members in life and death, even public examples as Teddy K.

They are yours and you must own them, as you preach a church, and cannot formally seperate as Evangelicals have, without being in schism. But the church began in dissent from those, who like Rome, presumed of themselves above that which is written.

43 posted on 02/18/2014 12:03:55 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: metmom; LibLieSlayer; Buckeye McFrog; E. Pluribus Unum; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; ..
Related: Caucus thread (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3123469/posts) states based on the Vatican’s own survey (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/11/vatican-releases-full-text-of-document-and-survey-questions-for-2014-synod-of-bishops-on-the-family/

Before the Vatican ACTUALLY did its OWN poll, they would blow off every poll and survey that came down the pike.

They had to – really. To even acknowledge or lend any credence whatsoever to the results of past surveys would be to admit that there has been a never before in the life of the Church anything like it collapse of the faith.

That would immediately necessitate a conversation of how this happened, which would lead directly back to the bishops...Every excuse in the books – anything to deny, lie or refuse to comply with the truth.

Well, they can’t do that ANY MORE. These are the Vatican’s OWN OFFICIAL numbers – and they show – heck in some cases – results EVEN WORSE than originally thought...

So consider the whole picture. On the one hand, we have an official Church survey PROVING what we have long known – global apostasy as John Paul termed it.

And then we have prominent Church leaders who couldn’t care less and who come out and say it publicly. They are more concerned with the press ASKING about IT then they are with the actual IT.

Nothing new here. This is what RCs keep denying when i provide the evidence: /RC-Stats_vs._Evang

44 posted on 02/18/2014 12:06:57 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: tiki
For those ACTIVE Catholics who have beliefs contrary to Catholic theology-well, they are in the right place, they are in the place where Truth is taught and God willing the Holy Spirit will touch their hearts and give them understanding. I will continue to trust Jesus for their salvation as well as my own.

Where Truth is taught- with much error , even extending to Bible scholarship , and which works to make truth void.

45 posted on 02/18/2014 12:09:50 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: daniel1212
Any "Catholic" who doesn't believe Church doctrine is not actually Catholic.

There is nothing controversial about that statement, except in the minds of superior-types who know it all.

46 posted on 02/18/2014 12:40:09 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Any "Catholic" who doesn't believe Church doctrine is not actually Catholic.

Any "Christian" who doesn't believe what the Bible says is not actually Christian.

(Well; they COULD be; but merely DECEIVED in some area or another.)

47 posted on 02/18/2014 1:43:38 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212; metmom; LibLieSlayer; Buckeye McFrog; E. Pluribus Unum; boatbums; caww; ...
The good news in all this is that some of these people leaving the RCC are going to become Born Again Christians and will be involved in and members of an Evangelical, or Reformed church.

The bad news is a larger number will just turn their backs on Christianity.

48 posted on 02/18/2014 1:54:15 PM PST by wmfights
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To: CynicalBear

Yes, conforming for sure. Read article the other day where they are allowing ‘special prayers’ for homosexuals after their ceremonies. Believe that’s in Europe somewhere...the Priests will perform these special prayers, but they insist these are NOT a blessing.

‘Skirting the edges’ without actually sanctifying the unions of homosexuals....who do they think they’re kidding!


49 posted on 02/18/2014 1:56:24 PM PST by caww
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To: Elsie

You really love those straw men, don’t you?


50 posted on 02/18/2014 1:56:38 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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