Posted on 04/05/2014 7:41:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Some of you may remember a year or two ago I posted a question about an umpire's call that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Now I'd like to again ask my fellow FReepers to explain to me something I've seen in a baseball game that makes no sense.
Last night in the St. Louis/Pittsburgh game, bottom of the first inning: the lead-off batter, Marte, walks. Man on first. The next batter hits a broken bat liner to the shortstop who catches it and steps on second. It is called an unassisted double play.
Now, as I understand it, the moment the ball was caught the force play at second should have been killed. Marte would have had to have been tagged or the ball thrown to first base. Yet from what I saw, the shortstop merely caught the ball and then stepped on second, and the play was definitely unassisted (so he didn't throw to first). How does this get Marte out? Is there some arcane rule that says in certain situations the fly out doesn't kill the force?
Every time I think I know this game . . . !
Yes! That's it exactly! It should not have been an unassisted double play, and yet it was! The shortstop catches the ball (batter out) and then steps on second, somehow forcing out the base runner who had been at first! There was no one running from second; these were the two first batters in the Pirate line-up!
I'm beginning to sense an International Baseball Conspiracy, aimed at me personally! It's the game's revenge on me for not being a fan as a kid.
That's not really true. The runner can run all he wants. But he has to either be tagged, or the base where he was when the ball was hit has to be tagged, or he has to leave the field of play to be out.
For example, on a fly ball that is likely to be caught, it is common for a runner to advance half way to the next base (in case the ball is not caught), then if the ball is indeed caught, he returns back to the original base. He is not out.
Pittsburgh - Bottom of 1st
Shelby Miller pitching for St. Louis
S Marte walked.
T Snider lined out to shortstop, S Marte tagged out at second.
A McCutchen popped out to second.
there is no way... there had to be a runner on second...
It works if the baserunne4r was moving with the pitch qned the second batter lined out to the second baseman. Line out, tag out. DP 4U.
The Infield Fly Rule only applies with runners on 1st and 2nd or bases loaded with less than 2 outs. In that case a fly ball that can be caught by an infielder with normal effort results in the batter-runner being declared out and the runners may advance at their own risk. The scenario the OP described was not an infield fly rule situation. With a runner on first and a line drive caught by an infielder the runner on first does not have to advance and certainly would not be declared out by the infielder stepping on second base. If that call was made they would still be arguing. The OP must have missed something. There is no way the call would have been made the way it was described.
It could not have happened this way. No offense... but I think you missed something. The only way this could have happened is if there were a runner also on second base and he did not return to second before the fielder got there.
I'm not claiming to be an expert... but I have coached baseball for several years. There are obscure rules and I still see situations I have never seen before where they apply. But I don't see any other way this could have happened.
Good research. basic rule.
So he was tagged——problem solved.
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No read the book. It has to do with what is considered proper advancement of the base runner. The runner may NOT start running before the ball is caught and the penalty is in fact that the runner is out.
The runner at first had taken a lead off the bag. The liner to Short would have required the runner to tag-up to advance. Since the Short stop tagged the advance bag before the runner got back to first to tag up the base runner is out.
I subscribe to mlb.tv premium, and as part of that subscription I can go back and watch any game.
I just went back and cued up to the play you describe.
Martes, the player on first, WAS running to second base...looked like an attempt at the Hit and Run strategy...but the shortstop did indeed catch the ball and tag the runner, like hole_n_one said.
Couldn’t happen in that situation anyway. Infield fly rule only applies when there is a fly in the infield and a force at third (at minimum.)
You really believe that to be true or are you trolling?
It works if the baserunne4r was moving with the pitch qned the second batter lined out to the second baseman. Line out, tag out. DP 4U
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I agree, BUT the ‘picture’ he painted was SS caught liner, stepped on Second and ‘VOLLA’ Double play....
Without runner on 2B can’t happen - by ONLY tagging 2B.
no way... runners lead off all the time... if the ball is caught, they run back to the base before they are thrown out...
I did the same. I posted a picture of the play above.
Only if an appeal is made to the base that the runner left early from.
To suggest that the defense is not required to make a play on a runner that left a base without tagging up is incorrect.
The defense can double up the base runner by throwing to the base he left early from, tagging the runner out, or making an official appeal before the next pitch.
The runner is not "automatically" out simply because he did not tag up properly.
No the play is at the bag the runner left. You can tag the base ahead of the runner because there is no force play there.
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