Posted on 11/02/2014 2:24:16 PM PST by Morgana
Sarah Palin not worth mentioning on FR?
St. Catherine of Sienna, who among other things persuaded the Pope to return to Rome from exile in Avignon, was the 24th of 25 children.
The “Quiver Full” movement has the right idea, and other Christian sects need to adopt a similar outlook on life.
This almost has to be done in Christian communities, because the culture at large uses any number of means to discourage more than a minimum number of children.
Every expectation and demand puts pressure on potential parents to limit their number of children. Often this amounts to materialistic demands, that children must have this and that and the other, or they are being “deprived.”
Only in a mutually supporting community, where the focus is away from materialism, is the pressure lifted.
Frankly, this is a non-argument.
How about the 11th kid that was never born to a 10 child family? The one that would have found the cure for all forms of Cancer?
Or the 12th, who would have discovered Warp Drive?
There are an infinite number of children with an infinite number of possible lives for all married couples.
Or suffice it to say, I have never understood this particular argument for fecundity.
I guess you are correct.
After all, where were the mass murderes and serial killers, et al, in the order?
Not just materialistic, but individualistically proud. We shouldn’t turn this into a kind of reverse moralism where we robotically shame those with few or no children, or even go celibate (we can’t always know why). But humans were put here for God’s loving glory and if the love capacity is there for many children, it is only right by God to follow suit.
>>After all, where were the mass murderes and serial killers, et al, in the order?<<
Child 10 of 10? Should have stopped sooner?
Of course, we all know about 7 of 9... NOT a mass murderess.. ;)
>>ut humans were put here for God’s loving glory and if the love capacity is there for many children, it is only right by God to follow suit.<<
That is an example of a good argument for fecundity. There are others, including propagating values, maintaining national identity and strength (witness Japan which may soon collapse), and others not so much rooted in “if it wasn’t for...”
Another factor: expectations and standards for children working have changed in modern years, and not all to the absolute good. In their sympathy over dangerous sweathouses that paid nearly nothing, liberals have well nigh legally abolished the last bastion of big-family collaboration, the family farm.
I have lots of problems with woman having kids which they then expect me to pay for with my tax dollars.
Over-rigidity can kill what would otherwise be a good love-based exhortation.
The displacement of old fashioned charity by faceless entitlements has erected this moral hazard (or maybe we should say, dug it).
In a sense the kids do have jobs, although warped: each is a money sponge for the family.
>>Over-rigidity can kill what would otherwise be a good love-based exhortation.<<
Being child-free can be from a lot of situations, such as getting married late in life
Strangely, my younger brothers and sisters do not agree. ;-)
Or other misfortune that has introduced delays in being reasonably marriageable (as opposed to a baby daddy or a welfare queen). Nobody is saying to be stupid here. But if love can not drive the whole thing, might as well hand the keys over to the devil and tell him he’s won, all hail hate. (However, yes it can. But it needs people willing to believe it even in the face of difficulties.)
>> Nobody is saying to be stupid here. But if love can not drive the whole thing, might as well hand the keys over to the devil and tell him he’s won, all hail hate. (However, yes it can. But it needs people willing to believe it even in the face of difficulties.)<<
A little strong there, but there are good arguments for Christians to have little ones, when it makes sense.
Sadly, not the thesis of the OP...
Of course, Ben Franklin, and presumably his siblings and contemporaries,left home at an early age.
The world would have missed out on me (third of three).
We could paraphrase and say that yes, it is worth the trouble to persevere in difficult family situations. That’s a principle which applied to Ludwig Van Beethoven. To be born in a family that is poverty stricken, his mother diseased, earlier siblings died young or stillborn, many modernists would advise abortion.
And to be fair even Ludwig did not escape misfortune — this great musician went so completely deaf he could not hear his own concerts. But you don’t see him pondering suicide either.
I don’t suggest answers that take the love out of the situation.
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