What global warming?
I guess we'll all go back to cutting ice on the lake in winter
and storing it under hay in a barn for the summer.
Gonna be a little short on ice in New Mexico I reckon.
Posted on 09/23/2021 12:48:03 PM PDT by CedarDave
No doubt. The propaganda rolls on.
HFO1234yf will probably come down with R-134a going up and slotted to be obsolete by 2025. It’s noteworthy, that for the consumer, R-12 originally came in 14 oz. cans then went 12 oz. cans. When it was replaced by R-134a in all 1994 model year vehicles, 12 oz. cans were still the norm. With this new crap
that’s been foisted upon US, 8 oz. cans are now the norm. Spit.
Slated for 2025.
1993 was the last year for R-12. I’m EPA certified for auto air and can still but and use it. Have to use a recovery machine though. I have two of them, one for R-12 and one for R-134a and also a tank for each. Can’t mix them.
The only two A/C system differences is that the old condensers don’t work well for R-134a and the R-12 seals will deteriorate with R-134a. Newer seal material for 134a will work fine with R-12.
There are R-12 equivalent refrigerants out there like FR-12 that Penzoil came up with.
Back to the Stone Age we go!
I guess we’ll have to catch and eat our insects on the fly.
That’s the 609 and some in cases the 608 certification. The old condensers will work fine if sealed on all sides with foam strips as R-134a runs at slightly higher pressures than R-12. The only incapability issues are the Viton seals used in some of the older R-12 systems. It’s the PAG oils that are causing the seal and o-ring deterioration in these A/C systems.
Patents must be expiring. And patent holding companies want to prohibit cheap generics. I’m Sure they have something “new” and “better”, and of course more expensive.
“Patents must be expiring.”
Nope.... it’s the nutball global warming control freaks in Europe and parts in between that are driving this BS.
Somebody’s making a lot of money off of this scam.
Of course they are. Homework for the day: Name the country or countries that manufacture HFO1234yf refrigerant. Bonus points for naming the CEO(s).
1,1,1,2-Tetrafluoroethane was introduced in the early 1990s as a replacement for dichlorodifluoromethane (R-12), which has massive ozone depleting properties.[13] Even though it has insignificant ozone depletion potential (ozone layer) and negligible acidification potential (acid rain), it has a 100-year global warming potential (GWP) of 1430 and an approximate atmospheric lifetime of 14 years.[2] Its concentration in the atmosphere and contribution to radiative forcing have been growing since its introduction. Thus it was included in the IPCC list of greenhouse gases.[14] HFC-134a atmospheric concentration since year 1995.
R-134a was consequently banned from use in the European Union, starting with cars in 2011, by a directive of 2006 banning gases in air conditioning systems with a GWP above 100. [15]
1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane is subject to use restrictions in the US and other countries as well. The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) has proposed that it be best replaced by a new fluorochemical refrigerant HFO-1234yf (CF3CF=CH2) in automobile air-conditioning systems.[16] By model year 2021, newly manufactured light-duty vehicles in the United States will no longer use R-134a.[4]
California may also prohibit the sale of canned R-134a to individuals to avoid non-professional recharge of air conditioners.[17] A ban had been in place in Wisconsin since October 1994 under ATCP 136 prohibiting sales of container sizes holding less than 15 lbs of 1,1,1,2-tetrafluoroethane, but this restriction applied only when the chemical was intended to be a refrigerant. However, the ban was lifted in Wisconsin in 2012.[18] During the time that it was active, this Wisconsin-specific ban contained loopholes. For example, it was legal for a person to purchase gas duster containers with any amount of the chemical because in that instance the chemical is neither intended to be a refrigerant [18] nor is HFC-134a included in the § 7671a listing of class I and class II substances.[19]
""" California may also prohibit the sale of canned R-134a to individuals to avoid non-professional recharge of air conditioners """
Glad I'm EPA certified still have all my AC stuff. I was doing mobile auto repair in Florida and being able to do AC is a must down there. Back then there were still some cars with R-12 systems but you needed the EPA cert to buy it.
HFO-1234yf had the lowest switching cost for automakers among the proposed alternatives.[14][15] The product can be handled in repair shops in the same way as R-134a, although it requires some different, specialized equipment to perform the service. One of the reasons for that is the mild flammability of HFO-1234yf.[16] Another issue affecting the compatibility between HFO-1234yf and R-134a-based systems is the choice of lubricating oil.
HFO-1234yf is compatible with PAG oil which I think is the most widely used. New equipment and new procedures due to it being slightly flammable. It's already been in use in a few models of new cars for a few years. https://www.underhoodservice.com/r-1234yf-refrigerant-service-equipment-safety/
I think I'm going to start stocking up on 134a.
What global warming?
I guess we'll all go back to cutting ice on the lake in winter
and storing it under hay in a barn for the summer.
Gonna be a little short on ice in New Mexico I reckon.
609 MVAC cert is what I have. Been 20 years since I’ve done any AC work though aside from topping off with a small can of 134a.
Ukraine?
Bought a new fridge ... refrigerant is flammable cyclopentane. EPA puts a bomb in our homes.
Yep, I think I am going to buy a drum of 134a. I’m still running r-12 in most of my old stuff from a drum I bought many years ago.
Might have to see is any of the small junkyards will let me evacuate the systems in the junk cars. Supposed to do it before scrapping them anyway but I think most people just let it out into the air. I've got a filter to remove any leak sealant that might be in a system. That will muck up my recovery unit(s).
Yep.... IMACA was doing them early on then MACS took over. Absolutely despise the new refrigerants as R-12 is the king. There are not many R-134a systems that I can consistently get into the low 40’s.
Funny thing, long ago the EPA classified as illegal any refrigerant that is considered flammable so why the HFO1234yf?
Go figure.
“I’ve got a filter to remove any leak sealant that might be in a system. That will muck up my recovery unit(s).”
The downside to those tanks is they have to be hydro statically tested (re-certified) every 5 years. You must be running a Recycle-Guard or similar to protect your equipment. Not many folks are aware of the damage stop leaks can do on their equipment.
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