Posted on 10/04/2021 10:08:00 AM PDT by Kevmo
This is a rare combination thread with another Asked & Answered thread on Vortex-L combined with some Vanity Level thoughts on LENR.
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Recently the sidebar moderator posted this about LENR:
Updated No Internal Trolling Rules for FR per Jim Robinson
If someone says stop, then stop. Do not enter onto a thread on a topic you don't like just to disrupt, rattle cages, poke sticks, insult the regulars, or engage in trolling activities, etc. ~Jim Robinson
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The issue isn't whether we allow skepticism, it is whether we allow hyperskeptics and skeptopaths to ruin the scientific dialog. Such FReepers as who persist in polluting these threads have been asked to leave, and we are asking that they open their own threads if they have comments.
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Sidebar Moderator Comments about LENR
Comment #13 Removed by Moderator
Comment #14 Removed by Moderator
Comment #16 Removed by Moderator
Comment #17 Removed by Moderator
Comment #18 Removed by Moderator
This topic has a following, people who wish to learn and discuss the materials presented.
Please refrain from posting anything that doesn’t legitimately address the issue.
Something is going on in this segment of science. There are a considerable number of research groups studying the matter.
19 posted on 7/19/2021, 6:45:09 PM by Sidebar Moderator
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We recently had a person come onto our LENR thread and turn it into a bunch of nonsense in order to hijack the thread.
There was a time when I realized that generating Asked & Answered topics as a result of our collective learnings from the controversial topic of Certifigate would have been far more effective in dealing with trolls. When the certifigate trolls would go over the same nonsense again and again, it would have been far more effective to point them to a thread that covered the "same bs, different day" approach so that lurkers could see the trolls were not in it for conservatism nor getting to the bottom of the issues nor constitutionalism, they were just trolls hiding behind the skirts of a loud crowd. Certifigate Postmortem
LENR/Cold Fusion is a controversial subject. We as a community need to dig down under the controversy to see where the science will take us rather than endlessly having to deal with attempts at threadjacking.
So I will implement those learnings and put up as many links for LENR as time allows.
Here is where the latest threadjacking attempt took place. The person tried to turn it into a thread about Andrea Rossi.
Since Rossi isn’t really a scientist submitting his findings for peer review but more of a tinkerer trying to become a trillionaire, that is a bit like learning magic from watching a magician.
https://www.lenr-forum.com/forum/thread/1199-ugo-abundo-parkhomov-replications/
21 posted on 9/30/2021, 12:26:42 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=21#21
To: bhl
Rossi did just that. He attracted an investor called Industrial Heat. After some very questionable maneuvers from both sides, Rossi won the lawsuit filed by Industrial Heat against him.
They wanted his Intellectual Property, which is quizzical because they claimed it was worthless. They did not get it. Rossi wanted his $80Mil for demo’ing the device. He did not get it.
IH alleged fraud against Rossi; they lost. No fraud charges were forwarded against Rossi to the District Attorney, which would have had lots of data to proceed from the civil trial. In that manner, it is proven that Rossi is NOT a fraud , whether criminal or civil [civil charges are easier to prove than criminal], when it comes to this technology.
Feel free to pick up the phone and call the Florida District Attorney to bring their attention to this supposed $89Million Fraud. No one has done so. In the meantime, Rossi still has No Mercato, so he’s got No Veritas. I really don’t give a flying fig about Rossi unless he starts selling his “Impossible Invention”.
29 posted on 9/30/2021, 1:04:02 PM by Kevmo
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=29#29
To: Kevmo
If you have a link to a documented and 3rd party witnessed experiment that involved heating water in a closed system (gasoline/propane generator as input) please let me know. Obviously, for the test to be a success, the water heated would have to be greater than could be done with known chemical means. It should also be witnessed by a competent and independent 3rd party.
The reason heating water is important is because the science can be understood by a high school physics student and demonstrates the definition of a calorie, a fundamental unit of energy.
He is a snake oil salesman and he has wasted countless hours of people’s time following his easily debunked and easily verified claims. If Rossi wants to sue me for defamation, he can go right ahead. I’d be happy to take a deposition.
Not being sued for fraud is not an indicator that his product does anything. Anyone can hire a lawyer to weasel out of having to deliver a working product. He isn’t selling anything because he doesn’t have a source of “excess heat”. And of course producing heat 2% over chemical heating would bring him the trillions..
Hate to be the one to break it to you.. but he never had a working system, knew it, and continued to lie and produce phony demonstrations. Because people wanted to believe the nice old man from Italy had found a solution to a desperate world need.
34 posted on 9/30/2021, 2:05:39 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=34#34
To: bhl
Pons and Fleischmann were renowned experts in calorimetry. Their experiment has been replicated at least 153 times.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3963819/posts
No other controversial experiment even comes close to that number of peer reviewed replications. Dolly the Sheep was replicated ONCE.
38 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:31:37 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: Kevmo
P&F were looking for milliwatts of “power” where it might take a team of researchers to determine if there is anything there in excess of the noise.
Rossi made repeated claims of excess megawatts. But never demonstrated anything. He is a liar and fraud. Sad.
39 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:51:56 PM by bhl
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3999491/posts?page=39#39
To: bhl
He is a snake oil salesman
***I don’t care about Rossi and I care even less what YOU think of him. People don’t sue snake oil salesmen and then try to get their IP.
and he has wasted countless hours of people’s time following his easily debunked
***Experts in [LITERALLY] Industrial Heat could not debunk him so you are WAY off.
and easily verified claims.
***Then easily verify them. Duhh. Gigantic duhh factor.
If Rossi wants to sue me for defamation, he can go right ahead. I’d be happy to take a deposition.
***It would depend upon how much you are worth. He threatened Wikipedia for defamation and they had to withdraw a bunch of their allegations from their website. I doubt you would fare as well.
Not being sued for fraud is not an indicator that his product does anything.
***Reading aint your strong suit. He WAS sued for fraud and it did NOT hold up. You should re-evaluate your entire position on LENR, which was here before Rossi and will be here after he leaves.
Anyone can hire a lawyer to weasel out of having to deliver a working product.
***I think you’re simply full of horse manure. $89Million worth of horse manure.
He isn’t selling anything because he doesn’t have a source of “excess heat”.
***That’s an argument from silence. Classical fallacy. He isn’t selling anything. Period. By his own measure of “in mercato veritas” he has nothing in mercato so I see no reason to extend veritas to him. However, he has survived a direct attempt at stealing his IP [more than once, it is claimed by those around him] so I’ll just sit back and let him do his thing. I’m neither a detractor nor a fan.
And of course producing heat 2% over chemical heating would bring him the trillions..
***Now you’re just saying a bunch of bullshiite. You don’t even know, in historical context, what you’re asserting. 153 peer reviewed papers’ worth of historical context.
Hate to be the one to break it to you..
***I’m obviously more up to speed on the guy than you are.
but he never had a working system, knew it, and continued to lie
***Arguments from silence. Classic fallacies.
and produce phony demonstrations.
***He fooled the Industrial Heat experts at Industrial Heat, he fooled the 7 Swedish scientists who independently verified his technology. I think you underestimate him — either he’s a genius at what you call ‘phony demonstrations’ in front of experts or he’s got sumthin, sumthin that IH WANTED.
Because people wanted to believe the nice old man from Italy had found a solution to a desperate world need.
***I don’t care what people want to believe any more than I care what you believe. But while you are at it, you should admonish the Google team that spent $10M and gave Rossi credit for revitalizing the field. I believe in avoiding classic fallacies, logical reasoning, peer review, scientific method, and rational argumentation... all of which you seem to just toss. This thread aint about Rossi, so take it somewhere else. Start your own thread and see if anyone shows up. I haven’t started a Rossi thread in about a decade, but jerks like you continue to harass me about it so shove off. I was posting LENR threads before you and before Rossi, I’ll be posting about LENR long after he leaves the scene.
40 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:52:21 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: bhl
Rossi demonstrated enough to attract experts in Industrial Heat to dump $89M in his scheme and then they had a falling out. You should start your own ridiculous Rossi thread because THIS thread aint about Rossi.
41 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:53:39 PM by Kevmo (I’m immune from Covid since I don’t watch TV.🤗)
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To: bhl
Polluting the thread with Rossi nonsense.
Asked & Answered
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
42 posted on 9/30/2021, 4:59:54 PM
What the heck are you talking about?
Could you translate please?
https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Pons & Fleischmann’s results were never replicated.
***WHAT? Not Replicated? Where do you get that ridiculous and ignorant
claim?
Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated hundreds of times by more than a
thousand scientists, even in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.
https://springerlink3.metapress.com/content/8k5n17605m135n22/resource-secured/?target=fulltext.pdf&sid=xwvgza45j4sqpe3wceul4dv2&sh=www.springerlink.com
.
Jing-tang He
• Nuclear fusion inside condense matters
• Frontiers of Physics in China
Volume 2, Number 1, 96-102, DOI: 10.1007/s11467-007-0005-8
This article describes in detail the nuclear fusion inside condense
matters—the Fleischmann-Pons effect, the reproducibility of cold fusions,
self-consistency of cold fusions and the possible applications
.
Note that Jing-tang He found there were 14,700 replications of the Pons
Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect.
http://www.boliven.com/publication/10.1007~s11467-007-0005-8?q=(%22David%20J.%20Nagel%22)
.
National Instruments is a multibillion dollar corporation that does not
need to stick its neck out for “bigfoot stories”. After noting more than
150 replications, they recently concluded that with so much evidence of
anomalous heat generation...
http://www.22passi.it/downloads/eu_brussels_june_20_2012_concezzi.pdf
Conclusion
• THERE IS AN UNKNOWN PHYSICAL EVENT and there is a need of better
measurements and control tools. NI is playing a role in accelerating
innovation and discovery.
The current state of the science of LENR is that the Pons Fleischmann
Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated and it is an established
scientific fact. But it is not an established ENGINEERING field because the
effect is difficult to generate and there is still some lingering stigma
associated with the field. The level of pathological resistance this field
receives is unconscionable for those of us who seek scientific answers and
engineering solutions.
And, in the bigger picture, does this same approach to discussion threads now apply across FR? If I start a thread and don't like the participants, I can boot them or as moderators to boot them? Wow.
Controversial subjects that attract internal trolls need to have their own Asked & Answered threads. We learned that from Certifigate.
I do recognize the screen name of the internet troll you were corresponding with.
Are you suggesting we cannot be skeptics, can’t question?
***NO. Did you READ what the sidebar moderator had to say?
” This topic has a following, people who wish to learn and discuss the materials presented.
Please refrain from posting anything that doesn’t legitimately address the issue.
“
for the cold fusion ping list
Are you suggesting we cannot be skeptics,
***Skeptics are welcome but skeptopaths are not. If your questions get shunted to a thread like this... you are very likely a skeptopath rather than an honest skeptic.
can’t question?
***You can question the science all you want. You just can’t engage the standard threadjacking tactics that trolls use.
Are we only allowed to comment on your discussion threads if we agree with you
***NO
or support the scam or magic?
***Feel free to post how [scientifically] you refute the claims. None of the skeptopaths do, they just loudly proclaim that LENR is some kind of scam. That doesn’t fly. The Pons Fleischmann Anomalous Heat Effect [PFAHE] has been replicated more than 153 times, so it’s time for the skeptopaths to put up or shut up.
And, in the bigger picture, does this same approach to discussion threads now apply across FR?
***Per JimRob’s posted rules... perhaps. It is HEAVILY enforced on Qtard threads, for instance. It was COMPLETELY unenforced on the biggest constitutional crisis in modern times, Certifigate. So it’s a bit inscrutable and cryptic but the mods and JimRob have spoken.
If I start a thread and don’t like the participants, I can boot them or as moderators to boot them? Wow.
***It took over a decade for it to take place on LENR threads, and it never happened on Certifigate threads. At a certain point it simply makes sense for the hyperskeptics or trolls or antiqtards or whomever... to open up their own thread and say what ya want. This kind of thing has been going on with religious threads for about 2 decades AFAICT.
Interesting thought that FR might have some threads now that are echo chambers only for like-thinking Kool-Aid drinkers.
And my comments here have nothing to do with the topic of LENR as I figure anything is possible; heck, I was a nuclear reactor operator in the Navy myself. But the inconsistent results of LENR seems to suggest people are missing something. Whether some people are scamming others is probably a fair topic on any matter.
Oh well, back to work I go...
I am confused.
Is the e-cat alive, or dead?
Will someone open the box already so we can find out
Thanks
See for yourself on Ecat World.
https://e-catworld.com/
Since he attracts so many trolls onto legitimate LENR threads, I never open threads about him. I haven’t for over a decade, and even when I DID, it was for only about 3 months. But I still catch shiite for it a decade later on FR. Enough is enough.
The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles
Keywords: ColdFusion; LENR; lanr; CMNS
chat—science
—
Vortex-L
http://tinyurl.com/pxtqx3y
Best book to get started on this subject:
EXCESS HEAT
Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed by Charles Beaudette
https://www.abebooks.com/9780967854809/Excess-Heat-Why-Cold-Fusion-0967854806/plp
Updated No Internal Trolling Rules for FR per Jim Robinson
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3928396/posts
If someone says stop, then stop. Do not enter onto a thread on a topic you don’t like just to disrupt, rattle cages, poke sticks, insult the regulars, or engage in trolling activities, etc. ~Jim Robinson
Please refrain from posting anything that doesn’t legitimately address the issue.
Something is going on in this segment of science. There are a considerable number of research groups studying the matter. -Sidebar Moderator
You’ve lost me there, I do not see LENR on my logged in or logged out sidebar.
***LENR threads are opened in Chat/General under the topic “Science”. Do you see the Sidebar Moderator’s Comment about LENR?
This may or may not be my first time commenting in a discussion that involves LENR or you, for that matter.
***Well, I logged on here since 2 months after JimRob, and I’ve been posting LENR threads since about 2008. Chances are, you discussed sumthin with me.
I generally post and participate in discussions that show up in the main list. I presume that yours apparently are posted somewhere private, so not an issue for the rest of us?
***The Qtard threads show up somewhere as well. Do you see THEM? If you start pushing back on their qanonsense, you get a timeout from FR. Very heavily enforced.
And I presume the no-opposing comments or skepticism is limited to your fragile topic only?
***You DO seem to have trouble seeing the difference between healthy skepticism and skeptopathy. Perhaps if you post what you THINK is the difference, we could proceed in bringing you up to speed.
Seems very un-FR, but that’s just my two sense.
***Perhaps if you read the sidebar moderator’s comments, and read JimRob’s comments, you’ll come to realize that this is NOT un-FR. And if ya don’t like it, perhaps you should take it up with them.
Interesting thought that FR might have some threads now that are echo chambers only for like-thinking Kool-Aid drinkers.
***Give it a try on the qtard threads to see how long you last. They posted a MAJOR TROLL thread on Inauguration Day when their “follow the plan” bullshiite was OBVIOUSLY repudiated, and I got a timeout for pointing that out. Let us know how you fare.
And my comments here have nothing to do with the topic of LENR
***Then open up your own thread on the topic you WANT to talk about, which seems to be about the moderation philosophy here on FR.
as I figure anything is possible; heck, I was a nuclear reactor operator in the Navy myself.
***Cool 😎
And my comments here have nothing to do with the topic of LENR
***Then open up your own thread on the topic you WANT to talk about, which seems to be about the moderation philosophy here on FR.
as I figure anything is possible; heck, I was a nuclear reactor operator in the Navy myself.
***Cool 😎
But the inconsistent results of LENR
***Well now, hold on a second here. You just said “And my comments here have nothing to do with the topic of LENR”. Very inconsistent.
seems to suggest people are missing something.
***Yes. The folks who use calorimetry and electrolysis in their careers very often have been pushed around and bullied by the folks who haven’t touched a calorimeter nor electrolysis device since their undergrad days. That “suggests” certain people are missing something.
Whether some people are scamming others is probably a fair topic on any matter.
***Asked & Answered https://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-
Oh well, back to work I go...
***Please try to learn the difference between healthy scientific skepticism over an effect which has been replicated in peer reviewed journals more than 150 times, and skeptopathism which is basically trying to denigrate legitimate scientific discussion.
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