Posted on 09/07/2002 12:54:11 PM PDT by Overtaxed
Title: The Lord of the Rings Course Type: Online Instructor-led Course Estimated Completion Time: 24 hour(s) Session Length: 4 week(s)
Take this course for FREE
Upcoming Sessions September 11, 2002 - OPEN
Prerequisites Have read or have a desire to read The Hobbit and the trilogy, The Lord of the Rings
Description This course provides an overview of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien. We'll look first at Tolkien's biography, his writing life, the origins of the stories, and their publication history. We'll continue with lessons on each book, concentrating on Tolkien's construction of a mythological world and its peoples and languages, his characters and their development, and his thematic concerns. Finally, we'll look at Tolkien's lasting influence on 20th-century fantasy literature, as well as on cultural movements such as neo-paganism and environmentalism.
Objectives Read J. R. R. Tolkien's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings trilogy and follow the adventures of Bilbo, Frodo, and their friends in a war against evil See how Tolkien's background as a professor of languages at Oxford influenced his construction of a complete mythology of Middle Earth Explore Tolkien's influence, not only on 20th-century fantasy literature, but also on the development of neo-pagan religions and environmental activism.
Course Materials The Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings Boxed Set
Course Creator(s) Leslie Ellen Jones Leslie Ellen Jones earned a Ph.D. in Folklore and Mythology Studies at UCLA, and has taught at UCLA and Harvard. She is the author of Druid Shaman Priest: Metaphors of Celtic Paganism, and currently works in academic publishing.
Hey, Gretchen, what's your name on the B&N site? I am "Lin". But, I haven't posted too much. I am a bit nutty reading all the Comments that attribute LotR to JRRT's having been in the war. I believe that I'd read he had begun constructing Middleearth long before he served in the war-- and languages, they jumped on his distaste for French; and thought perhaps he thought of that as a language of Black Speach, but never saw that Elven might just be his acknowledgement of a 'heavenly' language; and that like any spirit-filled Christian would have the ability to speak in 'other' tongues - -
Eh! too early
Off Topic Did any of you see Dateline last night? Do you know that our Special Forces in Afghanistan had grown beards and whatnot so they could 'blend' in- some of the men there working for 'relief' groups got upset (they too have facial hair) because Afghans couldn't distinguish between them (relief workers) and the special forces. So, the military has ordered the Special Forces to shave their facial hair. Now I ask you, is that crazy?! The SFs NEED to blend in- what in the world has happeded to commonsense? not to mention, how difficult is it for guys out in the desert to shave! I just can't believe that the military brass would cave to relief workers like that. They want to wear facial hair so they don't get shot, but they want the military to shave so they won't be mistaken for military - of course this leaves our guys sticking out like sore thumbs.
Sorry, I just can't get over how ridiculous things have gotten.
Georgia
It seems to me that by creating a world in which religion is unnecessary because the spirituality of the people is a natural part of life (as seen in the Elves), Tolkien was making a very powerful point. All of the races have a definitive way of living and of keeping their culture alive. You can see in the relationship of Frodo and Sam, for example, that Hobbits have friendships built on spiritual foundations and not social ones, as socially Sam is not compatible with Frodo.
Shirley
I would agree with that Amy. Don't think he wrote for the purposes of evangalizing anyone. At the same time, I do believe that the Christian themes found in his works are there as natural expressions of his world view.
Agate
The "Ainulindale" and "Valaquenta" are short stories that can be found at the beginning of the Silmarillion. The first is Arda's (the world that includes Middle Earth) creation myth and the second is basically a roster of its gods and goddesses, collectively called the Valar. But you're right in that Tolkien never develops any particular moral or ritual framework to which the people's of Middle Earth adhere. As an atheist, I personally don't find it to be problematic.
In fact, I consider the lack of overt religiosity to be one of LotR's strengths.
One can of course argue that there are several Christian themes underlying the books, and that is true to some extent, but I also think some people try a bit too hard to find connections.
Cathy
Hi Norman, I agree with you that the "lack of overt religiosity [is]one of LotR's strengths." I can't read CS Lewis anymore, though I read Narnia to my kids. But Lewis uses symbolism with a sledgehammer. Tolkien is much more open to spirituality without defining exactly what the "correct" form of it is (as I think Lewis does).
Cindy
Religion takes many forms.
My background is in the metaphysical, an universal force surrounding all things. This force has many names, including the word "love". The love between Frodo and Sam, is a very spiritual kind of love, representing "The Golden Rule". "Love one another as I had loved you."
It is interesting that evil "appears" to have overcome good, until it looks like all is lost. Only then, does the characters of the "fellowship" look within themselves, and find the courage that was there all the time to overturn the evil. The "good" within each of us prevails.
This is another concept of spiritual law. The ability of each of us to look within to find our "good". As Jesus stated, "You shall do these things and greater if you have the faith of a mustard seed." I believe Jesus was telling us to look within to find our courage, as was Tolkien.
My Response
I think you are very wrong- here's excerpts from his own letters, and by his authorized biographer.
"The Lord of the Rings," he wrote in a letter to a friend, "is of course a fundamentally religious and Christian work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." Humphrey Carpenter, author of Tolkien's authorized biography, takes this claim seriously. Tolkien's writings, he says, are "the work of a profoundly religious man." According to Carpenter, God is essential to everything that happens in The Lord of the Rings. Without Him, Middle-earth couldn't exist. But be forewarned: Evidences of God's presence are not as obvious in Tolkien's work as in Lewis' more allegorical style of writing. They are there, however - firmly embedded in the tales he insisted on calling "inventions about Truth." In fact, if you know what to look for, you may find them popping up everywhere.
As a spirit-filled Christian, I see Tolkien's spirituality everywhere Not the ritualized 'go-to-church' form, but the born in the spirit- touching the supernatural and having a communion and fellowship with God- type of faith.
In his work, you have the work of the Holy Spirit (Gandalf) ; of guardian, messenger, consoling angels (elves) ; death/redemption, the struggle and challenges of holding to that which is true; you have the evidences of that "hearing (internal) ear", healing and deliverance, words of knowledge and faith. Infact, all the gifts of the spirit.
You also have the other side of the supernatural spectrum- the fallen wizards - just as Lucifer fell, and fallen angels- the corrupted elves known as Orcs (goblins, wargs,etc) all fallen from their first estate. You also have the demon-oppressed and demon-possessed such as Gollum, the nine kings.
You have all of the characters challenges to overcome temptations, and discovering their inner conditions; these struggles are common to all, and have varying degrees of success.
You also see clearly that "To whom much is given much is required."
I can't imagine that anyone well versed in scripture could help but see the "shadows (inventions) of truth"
It seems to me that the faith-life in Tolkien was very strong, and the existence of an Almighty, supernatural God was a given. What he depicted was the struggle of Good vs Evil, the personal challenge to resist the Devil, and His ability to work all things for good in the lives of those that love Him.
Well, what do ya'll make of that?
The atheist certainly has no clue:
but I also think some people try a bit too hard to find connections.
If you know anything about Scripture or Christianity those "connections" hit you over the head and don't need to be found by trying too hard.
I know, I found myself tearing up in lots of places, and having Hallelujah breakdowns in others- that was the first run-through-
Now, since the Green Dragon I, II, & III, and re-reading with some idea where its going - well, it just blows your mind!
I'm just too old to go fishing for superficial stuff, ...
Hey, here's a cute saying that I say today.
Life must be a test- -
otherwise it would have come with better instructions.
Did you find any good comments this morning? I posted the best of what I read---and that didn't do much for me. Lin
You are certainly right about that! and it just proves that JRRT was a remarkable writer. Kinda like the Bible in that there are layer upon layers of meaning, the individual puts the brakes on at any depth they choose.
____But, as I said to OT, I'm just too old to waste much time with the trivial.
I'll read some more threads, but if it is just going to be a lot of folks trying to make his war experiences and his lack of parents the main focus, well, there's just too much good stuff to glean without getting the eyestrain.
How about putting out a Post to the list to see who is still interested?
I was really enjoying some of them, like Tuor, and Scott from the left coast, and haven't seen JenB for a long time, and remember Sam Cree. Those guys used to do some really great work, and there was an ecurbh(sic) haven't seen his posts forever! Though he did send in that Timeline. Lin
Not really...of course I didn't spend too much time there. The fonts hurt my eyes and I've got stuff to do. The comments were pretty obvious stuff and like you say, I'm too old to waste time on superficial stuff! :)
I like the discussion (and company, and pints, and wings) at The Green Dragon better.
Hehehe....not unless you want to include some of Tolkien's private or academic life. Anyone up to discussing the translation of Old English texts? That's as far as I've gotten in the course readings. I think we're way ahead or way deeper into the Middle Earth thing than most of the participants in this course. If I read another comment on how Elvish was based on Finnish, I'm going to scream!
Hair, you were doing a really great job, and (I suspect) that you have DSL?, and the ability to drop those pics in. I could probably do it, but it would take a veeerrry long time.
The only problem I saw, was the Posters dropped off, and even if you would wait several days for someone to "Forward" the conversation, that last post would just sit there; and to go Forward >> you'd have to Reply to yourself.
The only thing I can think of, is when the thread gets too slow, to add another junk of thought where the last few threads dropped off, and hope to generate more comments.
But I hate that we just left chapters with so much good stuff untouched. I don't know if it's still a really busy time for folks or not, but that next movie is coming up pretty soon.
We lost power here at 3p and just got it back, been reading The Hobbit by kerosene lamp. hehehe, it seems so apropo. Had a really windy storm, and got some RAIN! and about time too, we're 14" short for the year, and about 50" short for the last 4 years- and Hair, that means NO pasture, so I'm really hoping that in the next day or two things will green-up, and the girls will be happy again.
OT I'm going over to B&N and see if my comments got 'flamed', I hope that would at least open up some dialog, but I'm suspecting that a faith life is not something on the top of most of their lists. I have to close this browser down, and go to another one for that cr*ppy window to open.
Oh, Hair, did you see the post on TORN that described the 'added scenes' for FotR?
Thanks for the "feel goods" on the way I was doing it, and yes, there were times that I did a mid-week bumper post that brought in something that I thought had been missed.
- Anyone can do that, so perhaps I should publish the ping list so that if others like you come up with a conversation-starter of your own you could ping everyone to it.
I think for the most part everyone is just busy. But I lost my mood too after an incident with that one critic (remember?) - He took a lot of fun out of it for me for a while there... not sure why, I have dealt with other critics before. I think it was the magnitude. Wore me out.
The movie is coming! We need to get back on the ball, and perhaps cover a few chapters per week to finish in time! - Part of my trouble in participating is that I run out of stuff to say about a single chapter after a day or two... unless a controversy develops over something. So covering a few chapters does help me not blow my whole wad in the first post!
I liked the Green Dragon format. Perhaps if you want to start it again, give everyone, say, a week's warning to get caught up, and then start talking... since it's fall now and TTT is coming soon we might get some more interest. I'll give it a try if you will!
With all things like this, just being busy and only having so much time during any day or week to keep up with things is hard. And often I'll go a long time between checking on the thread to see what's happening. Often, I'll go a couple of weeks between times I look at the thread, just because I don't have time to spend on the computer.
But that's OK. To me, it's alright if no one is posting for a long time because there are other things going on out there that people are paying attention to. Doesn't mean the thread is bad, or that the format is bad -- it's just that other things get in the way.
Right now, everyone's probably checking out the news on FR -- because of the Iraq war and other really big issues out there. So we spend less time viewing discussion topics like this. I'd like to see this continue, because there are going to be times when we will have intense discussions (probably around movie time!) like we did about Aragorn's decision to follow the trail of Merry and Pippin.
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