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Good v homosexuality ... last stand of the Bible quoters
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | October 15, 2003 | John Shelby Spong

Posted on 10/14/2003 9:44:56 AM PDT by dead

The evidence that being gay is not a choice undermines the arguments of homophobes, writes John Shelby Spong.

It was Professor Sarah Coakley, an Anglican theologian at Harvard University, who described the church as being something like a swimming pool. "Most of the noise," she said, "comes from the shallow end."

That is exactly my sense when I listen to the debate over the issue of homosexuality taking place today in the Christian Church in general and within my Anglican communion in particular. The noise, and it is very loud, comes from those who define this issue as a moral battle between God and the devil.

To maintain this attitude they must elevate a pre-modern definition that sees homosexuality as a sinful and evil practice, engaged in by people who are either morally depraved or mentally sick.

Against this distorted practice they assume that God has called them to do battle lest all morality disappear from the Christian world. They cite the sacred scriptures which they seem to believe God dictated - despite the fact that in some passages God is portrayed as less than moral - to demonstrate that the God they serve has affirmed their judgement.

They either fail to recall or conveniently forget that it was this appeal to scripture that has been used again and again to undergird causes that the Western world has today abandoned. The divine right of kings was supported by appeals to scripture to mount opposition to the Magna Carta and the birth of democracy in the 13th century. The divine right of kings and the Bible lost that battle.

The Bible was quoted in the 17th century to prove that the earth was the centre of the universe around which the sun rotated and that therefore Galileo was wrong. But again the Bible lost and Galileo won. Even the Vatican admitted that in 1991.

The Bible was quoted, and still is, in the less enlightened parts of the world, to prove that women are not fit to be priests and bishops. In most parts of the Anglican communion that battle is simply over and is not likely to be fought again with those who cannot adjust to reality.

The battle over homosexuality is thus a kind of final battle and last stand for the Bible quoters. Perhaps that is why they fight so furiously and so constantly trying to make a virtue out of a close-minded and uninformed prejudice.

It is quite simply not a battle between light and darkness, as homophobic church people try to pretend. It is a battle over consciousness, over new definitions based on new scientific and medical data that are invading and winning the minds of educated people.

Quoting a sacred text like the Bible, which came into written form between 1000BC and AD135, is strangely inappropriate to this new consciousness. No one would go to a doctor who sought authority for his or her medical practice in a medical textbook written in that period of history.

Jesus is actively pictured in the Gospels as believing that epilepsy is caused by demon possession and that sickness is the result of God's punishment. No one in His day knew about germs, viruses or leukaemia.

The new consciousness on homosexuality has emerged from a consensus of modern medical and scientific data that asserts that sexual orientation is no more a matter of choice than is left-handedness. It is a matter of awakening to one's own being and identity.

It is just the way some people are. Homosexuals also now seem to make up a consistent percentage of the population in all times and places. Homosexuality has even been documented in the animal kingdom. One can hardly call that "unnatural".

This new definition also asserts that no one can cause another person to become homosexual. Efforts therefore on the part of zealous but uninformed people to turn homosexual people heterosexual must be regarded as nothing less than fraudulent. That is, indeed, the way these efforts are increasingly regarded in medical circles.

One psychiatric association in the US has referred to efforts to change a person's sexual orientation as an act of "pastoral violence". As these realities seep down from the scientists into the common minds of the average citizen the old definitions become inoperative and a new consciousness is born.

That is really where the battle is in our churches between the definitions of yesterday and the emerging new consciousness of today. One can no more hold back new truths than one can stand on the shore and try to hold back the incoming tide. Quoting the Bible will not save this losing effort. Indeed, in time it will render the Bible quoters quaint, irrelevant, ignorant and even laughable.

Does this mean that those people who accept the new consciousness must condone all homosexual behaviour? Of course not. Some homosexual behaviour is depraved. Perhaps people haven't noticed that some heterosexual behaviour is also depraved.

Prostitution, pimping and child molesting are overwhelmingly the proclivities of heterosexuals, not homosexuals. Multiple partners, divorce and unfaithfulness are not unknown in the heterosexual world.

The day will surely come and it must come when any sexual behaviour that violates the sacred personhood or the solemn vows of any human being will be called evil and will be opposed by the church. But sexual activity that is faithful, that enhances life, increases love and calls each partner into a new humanity will ultimately be called holy.

Then we can take our marching orders again from the Bible, rather than the literal words. Jesus is quoted as having said: "I have come that you might have life and have it abundantly."

John Shelby Spong, a retired US Anglican bishop, is the author of A New Christianity for a New World.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: anglican; apostacy; apostate; deviancy; deviants; episcopal; episcopalian; homo; homosexualagenda; johnshelbyspong; pederasty; perversion; perverts; religiousleft; reprobate; sex; sexualdeviancy; sexuality; spong
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1 posted on 10/14/2003 9:44:56 AM PDT by dead
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To: dead
Where's the Barf-Up-An-Internal-Organ Alert?!

God, pull over the bus and let's figure out where we're going, please? How could this be any more wrong-headed? Is Rev. Spong gay?
2 posted on 10/14/2003 9:57:02 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: dead
The evidence that being gay is not a choice undermines the arguments of homophobes

The lack of evidence makes homosexuality a lie. What evidence? There isn't any except "We said so, so there!"
These mutants and their propaganda are something from an alternate universe or something.

3 posted on 10/14/2003 9:58:33 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Have you donated to the Salvation Army this week? How have you helped a lost soul today?)
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To: dead
What a distrubed ex-bishop we have here.
4 posted on 10/14/2003 10:05:13 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: concerned about politics
"The new consciousness on homosexuality has emerged from a consensus of modern medical and scientific data that asserts that sexual orientation is no more a matter of choice than is left-handedness."

I would have to question the veracity of this statement. "Consensus" seems like a very strong word. I doubt that.
5 posted on 10/14/2003 10:08:31 AM PDT by vharlow
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To: dead
To maintain this attitude they must elevate a pre-modern definition that sees homosexuality as a sinful and evil practice, engaged in by people who are either morally depraved or mentally sick.

Even non-Christians know that.
That's why those who engage in vile behavior have to use facist litigation and the thought control police to get their laws passed. They'd never make it past the will of the people at the voting booths.

6 posted on 10/14/2003 10:10:32 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Have you donated to the Salvation Army this week? How have you helped a lost soul today?)
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To: dead
Jesus is actively pictured in the Gospels as believing that epilepsy is caused by demon possession and that sickness is the result of God's punishment.
Spong is delusional.
7 posted on 10/14/2003 10:11:42 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: Frank_Discussion
I don't know but he is definitely a 'mo apologist. You may want to check out this website so you can truly savor the stench and depth of the hog lagoon his mind inhabits.
8 posted on 10/14/2003 10:14:39 AM PDT by Adder (.)
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To: eastsider
Spong is a CINO (Christian in name only).
9 posted on 10/14/2003 10:15:35 AM PDT by JusPasenThru (We're through being cool (you can say that again, Dad))
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To: dead
"That is exactly my sense when I listen to the debate over the issue of homosexuality taking place today in the Christian Church in general and within my Anglican communion in particular. The noise, and it is very loud, comes from those who define this issue as a moral battle between God and the devil."

To quote Abaraham -

"Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"

10 posted on 10/14/2003 10:18:16 AM PDT by freedom9
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To: Adder
"You may want to check out this website..."

No THANK You! I don't own this workstation, and it would take a few weeks to requisition a clean keyboard.
11 posted on 10/14/2003 10:18:24 AM PDT by Frank_Discussion (May the wings of Liberty never lose a feather!)
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To: concerned about politics
The lack of evidence makes homosexuality a lie. What evidence? There isn't any except "We said so, so there!"

Serious lack of evidence. The gay lobby preaches gayness is all hard-wired genetics, but there is not one shred of scientific evidence that has not been thoroughly dispoven that suggests this. The gay lobby makes stupid claims that hetrosexual males commit the majority of child abuse, but that is only because 98% of males are hetrosexual. Gays still commit these crimes at a much much higher rate. You can make a strong case against homosexuality without even quoting the Bible, which I never do in making arguements anyways. You just need to look at promiscuity, AIDS, other STDs to make the point it is not a healthy lifestyle. Even in the gay community they make fun of the 'mythical' gay couple, because it so rarely exists for very long.

12 posted on 10/14/2003 10:18:35 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: dead
It was Professor Sarah Coakley, an Anglican theologian at Harvard University, who described the church as being something like a swimming pool. "Most of the noise," she said, "comes from the shallow end."

Well, Prof. Sarak Coakley how about this little adage:

"Death comes to those who go off the deep end and get in over their head with nothing to stand on."

13 posted on 10/14/2003 10:18:42 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Be a glow worm, a glow worm's never glum, cuz how can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum)
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To: Frank_Discussion
http://www.dioceseofnewark.org/jsspong/
14 posted on 10/14/2003 10:22:50 AM PDT by Adder (.)
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To: Frank_Discussion
It is my firm belief that soon God will call the faithful home.
15 posted on 10/14/2003 10:25:10 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: dead
No matter what people say, homosexuality is a sin before a Living God! If one chooses to believe what is written clearly in scripture, then those who practice such things are deceived. Sodom and Gomorrah are clear indications of how God feels about this hideous sin. The reason they were finally destroyed is because that sin had pervaded an entire society from the older men to the young boys. When perversion makes its way through a culture and threatens the innocence of young children, then God will come to put an end to it. The other thing, God took quick authority over that area of the world because even the angels that came to destroy these two cities had become targets of sin.
Just like the church is today. The church of Jesus is under attack by people who believe a lie--homosexuality in the church will lead to sure judgement.
16 posted on 10/14/2003 10:28:19 AM PDT by truthingod
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To: dead
Spong's initial premise is incorrect. If someone has a natural tendency to do something, that does not mean that the specific behavior is good or moral. The behavior has to be judged as to whether is is moral or not. Just because someone has an "innate" desire to do something that does not make it okay.

From what I have read, no scientist knows why people are homosexuals. It has been raised to the level of a "fact" by some that people are born gay, but this is not substantiated by scientific evidence. When one twin is born gay, the other twin is gay only thirty-two percent of the time.

The doctor who asked that homosexuality be removed as a disorder now feels that some people can with therapy be go from the homosexual life style to being heterosexual.

Most of all, Spong tries the I'm more informed, hip, or whatever argument. If you are smart, you'll agree with me. This kind of arrogance is beyond irritating.
17 posted on 10/14/2003 10:30:28 AM PDT by Essie
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To: dead
It might also be considered that in the old testament there is a discussion about sin visiting itself upon the third and fourth generations. If this is true, then isn't it possible that homosexuality does have a generation aspect more than a genetic aspect? Although, it must be noted, that children of alcoholics have a lower threshold for becoming alcoholics themselves. Thus, it is possible for someone to be more quickly deceived about this perversion.
18 posted on 10/14/2003 10:33:15 AM PDT by truthingod
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To: dead
Looking at this from a different persepective, I recall that a large fraction of criminals in lockup tend to have an extra Y chromosome. If that is true, and if it gives criminals a predisposition to crime, would that mean that crime should be legalized?
19 posted on 10/14/2003 10:33:56 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: dead
Jesus is actively pictured in the Gospels as believing that epilepsy is caused by demon possession and that sickness is the result of God's punishment. No one in His day knew about germs, viruses or leukaemia.

Today, they claim certain cancers are caused by stress, and holostic medicine (the whole patient, i.e., physical/mental/spiritual) is proving itself correct.
Jesus must have been right, because he healed them immediately. Even todays medicine can't pull that stuff off.

20 posted on 10/14/2003 10:35:20 AM PDT by concerned about politics (Have you donated to the Salvation Army this week? How have you helped a lost soul today?)
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