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HOW WE ARE LOSING WORLD WAR II
Life Magazine ^
| John Dos Passos
Posted on 10/18/2003 3:25:55 AM PDT by Dallas59
We are in a cabin deep down below decks on a Navy ship jam-packed with troops thats pitching and creaking its way across the Atlantic in a winter gale. There is a man in every bunk. Theres a man wedged into every corner. Theres a man in every chair. The air is dense with cigarette smoke and with the staleness of packed troops and sour wool.
Dont think Im sticking up for the Germans, puts in the lanky young captain in the upper berth, but
To hell with the Germans, says the broad-shouldered dark lieutenant. Its what our boys have been doing that worries me.
The lieutenant has been talking about the traffic in Army property, the leaking of gasoline into the black market in France and Belgium even while the fighting was going on, the way the Army kicks the civilians around, the looting.
Lust, liquor and loot are the soldiers pay, interrupts a red-faced major.
The lieutenant comes out with his conclusion: Two wrongs dont make a right. You hear these two phrases again and again in about every bull session on the shop. Two wrongs dont make a right and Dont think Im sticking up for the Germans, but
The troops returning home are worried. Weve lost the peace, men tell you. We cant make it stick.
A tour of the beaten-up cities of Europe six months after victory is a mighty sobering experience for anyone. Europeans. Friend and foe alike, look you accusingly in the face and tell you how bitterly they are disappointed in you as an American. They cite the evolution of the word liberation. Before the Normandy landings it meant to be freed from the tyranny of the Nazis. Now it stands in the minds of the civilians for one thing, looting.
You try to explain to these Europeans that they expected too much. They answer that they had a right to, that after the last was America was the hope of the world. They talk about the Hoover relief, the work of the Quakers, the speeches of Woodrow Wilson. They dont blame us for the fading of that hope. But they blame us now.
Never has American prestige in Europe been lower. People never tire of telling you of the ignorance and rowdy-ism of American troops, of out misunderstanding of European conditions. They say that the theft and sale of Army supplies by our troops is the basis of their black market. They blame us for the corruption and disorganization of UNRRA. They blame us for the fumbling timidity of our negotiations with the Soviet Union. They tell us that our mechanical de-nazification policy in Germany is producing results opposite to those we planned. Have you no statesmen in America? they ask.
The skeptical French press Yet whenever we show a trace of positive leadership I found Europeans quite willing to follow our lead. The evening before Robert Jacksons opening of the case for the prosecution in the Nurnberg trial, I talked to some correspondents from the French newspapers. They were polite but skeptical. They were willing enough to take part in a highly publicized act of vengeance against the enemy, but when you talked about the usefulness of writing a prohibition of aggressive war into the law of nations they laughed in your face. The night after Jacksons nobly delivered and nobly worded speech I saw then all again. They were very much impressed. Their manner had even changed toward me personally as an American. Their sudden enthusiasm seemed to me typical of the almost neurotic craving for leadership of the European people struggling wearily for existence in the wintry ruins of their world.
The ruin this war has left in Europe can hardly be exaggerated. I can remember the years after the last war. Then, as soon as you got away from the military, all the little strands and pulleys that form the fabric of a society were still knitted together. Farmers took their crops to market. Money was a valid medium of exchange. Now the entire fabric of a million little routines has broken down. No on can think beyond food for today. Money is worthless. Cigarettes are used as a kind of lunatic travesty on a currency. If a man goes out to work he shops around to find the business that serves the best hot meal. The final pay-off is the situation reported from the Ruhr where the miners are fed at the pits so that they will not be able to take the food home to their families.
Well, the Germans are to blame. Let them pay for it. Its their fault, you say. The trouble is that starving the Germans and throwing them out of their homes is only producing more areas of famine and collapse.
One section of the population of Europe looked to us for salvation and another looked to the Soviet Union. Wherever the people have endured either the American armies or the Russian armies both hopes have been bitterly disappointed. The British have won a slightly better reputation. The state of mind in Vienna is interesting because there the part of the population that was not actively Nazi was about equally divided. The wealthier classes looked to America, the workers to the Soviet Union.
The Russians came first. The Viennese tell you of the savagery of the Russian armies. They came like the ancient Mongol hordes out of the steppes, with the flimsiest supply. The people in the working-class districts had felt that when the Russians came that they at least would be spared. But not at all. In the working-class districts the tropes were allowed to rape and murder and loot at will. When victims complained, the Russians answered, You are too well off to be workers. You are bourgeoisie.
When Americans looted they took cameras and valuables but when the Russians looted they took everything. And they raped and killed. From the eastern frontiers a tide of refugees is seeping across Europe bringing a nightmare tale of helpless populations trampled underfoot. When the British and American came the Viennese felt that at last they were in the hands of civilized people. But instead of coming in with a bold plan of relief and reconstruction we came in full of evasions and apologies.
U.S. administration a poor third We know now the tragic results of the ineptitudes of the Peace of Versailles. The European system it set up was Utopia compared to the present tangle of snarling misery. The Russians at least are carrying out a logical plan for extending their system of control at whatever cost. The British show signs of recovering their good sense and their innate human decency. All we have brought to Europe so far is confusion backed up by a drumhead regime of military courts. We have swept away Hitlerism, but a great many Europeans feel that the cure has been worse than the disease. [Emphasis mine]
The taste of victory had gone sour in the mouth of every thoughtful American I met. Thoughtful men cant help remembering that this is a period in history when every political crime and every frivolous mistake in statesmanship has been paid for by the death of innocent people. The Germans built the Stalags; the Nazis are behind barbed wire now, but who will be next? Whenever you sit eating a good meal in the midst of a starving city in a handsome house requisitioned from some German, you find yourself wondering how it would feel to have a conqueror drinking out of your glasses. When you hear the tales of the brutalizing of women from the eastern frontier you think with a shudder of of those you love and cherish at home.
That we are one world is unfortunately a brutal truth. Punishing the German people indiscriminately for the sins of their leader may be justice, but it is not helping to restore the rule of civilization. The terrible lesson of the events of this year of victory is that what is happening to the bulk of Europe today can happen to American tomorrow.
In America we are still rich, we are still free to move from place to place and to talk to our friends without fear of the secret police. The time has come, for our own future security, to give the best we have to the world instead of the worst. So far as Europe is concerned, American leadership up to now has been obsessed with a fear of our own virtues. Winston Churchill expressed this state of mind brilliantly in a speech to his own people which applies even more accurately to the people of the U.S. You must be prepared, he warned them, for further efforts of mind and body and further sacrifices to great causes, if you are not to fall back into the rut if inertia, the confusion of aim and the craven fear of being great.
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: agitprop; antiamericanism; bias; dospassos; flashback; iraq; ironic; leftist; liberalmedia; life; lifeschadenfreude; media; mediabias; mediafraud; medialies; schadenfreude; wwii
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posted on 10/18/2003 3:25:55 AM PDT
Holy cow! Bump.
To: viligantcitizen; .45MAN; dansangel; mhking
Check this out.
posted on 10/18/2003 3:31:54 AM PDT
The reportorial forebearers of today's media.
This article is absolutely priceless. I have been conducting a long drawn out debate with a friend from the UK who is hung up on how we have Lost the Peace in Iraq. He is way too young to know much about WW2 other than what the leftist EU media has told him and this article nails the atmosphere of doom and hopelessness right after that war.
posted on 10/18/2003 3:34:22 AM PDT
Thanks for posting this.
posted on 10/18/2003 3:41:18 AM PDT
(Old enough to remember the real America, young enough to fight to bring it back.)
Very Interesting; BUMP
posted on 10/18/2003 3:47:17 AM PDT
(Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
Heh...things haven't changed...Half Full or Half Empty..
posted on 10/18/2003 3:51:41 AM PDT
I'll be damned....
posted on 10/18/2003 3:53:01 AM PDT
(Qui docet discit!)
Some of the wording has changed, the reporter used Conquerors referring to Americans while today we are the Occupation forces. This article should be required reading for every American. I would love to see W go on Prime time TV, and read this word for word. That would be a presidential briefing to remember.
posted on 10/18/2003 4:11:15 AM PDT
The reportorial forebearers of today's media.
Dos Passos went from being a near-communist in the 1930's to being a true prominent conservative in the 1950's. You can see in this article that by 1946 he had discarded all idea of the Red Army being the savior of the world. While he probably makes too much of US troops looting, the truth is that the greatest generation did have its share of thieves. By historical standards, the discipline of US (and British) troops in Iraq is an extraordinary achievement of which this country should be proud.
Up until Krystalnacht (when Hitler turned his thugs loose on Jewish owned businesses and homes), the western press was full of fawning on the man with impeccable taste in dress, manners, politeness to women, the health-conscious non-smoker, the man who wrought the German economic miracle and restored their national pride. Time even named him man of the year in 1938. The western lamestream media has always had a fondness for leftist dictators. And make no mistake, Hitler was a leftist!
posted on 10/18/2003 4:37:40 AM PDT
It's deja vu all over again.
posted on 10/18/2003 4:39:45 AM PDT
posted on 10/18/2003 4:41:03 AM PDT
I'll bet CNN is pissed that they didn't exist at the time to make this their top story.
Bump for later absorption.
posted on 10/18/2003 5:29:09 AM PDT
How many times does this have to be posted in 24 hours????
posted on 10/18/2003 5:30:38 AM PDT
LOL! Should have done a search...
Thar's GOLD in them thar hills!
posted on 10/18/2003 5:42:48 AM PDT
This should be forwarded to Neal Boortz, Michael Savage, Rush's show, Drudge and anyone else you can think of.
First time I've seen it.
Who cares how many times it has been posted. Have you nothing better to do?
I would love to see W go on Prime time TV, and read this word for word.
I just sent a link to the original source to a local talk raido guy. It sure gives a nice historical perspective.
posted on 10/18/2003 6:48:38 AM PDT
( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
To: GOPJ; Pharmboy; reformed_democrat; RatherBiased.com; nopardons; Tamsey; Miss Marple; SwatTeam; ...
Same as it ever was.
This is the Mainstream Media Shenanigans ping list. Please freepmail me to be added or dropped.
Please note this is a medium- to high-volume list.
Please feel free to ping me if you come across a thread you would think worthy of this ping list. I can't catch them all!
posted on 10/18/2003 9:59:49 AM PDT
Somethings never change, particuliarly with those who hate America in America and out of America.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:01:57 AM PDT
by Grampa Dave
(Get a free FR coffee mug! Donate $10 monthly to Free Republic or 34 cents/day!)
To: martin_fierro; reformed_democrat; Loyalist; =Intervention=; PianoMan; GOPJ; Miss Marple; Tamsey; ...
Apologies to those getting a duplicate ping...
This is the
New York Times Life Magazine Schadenfreude Ping List. Freepmail me to be added or dropped.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:06:12 AM PDT
Comment #27 Removed by Moderator
To: Dallas59; mhking
"Just damn!" bump!
Forward this to SNOPES. When I first saw this, I was of the mind that it was a well aimed target at critics of the war in Iraq (written from the modern perspective looking back at the close of WWII).
I guess that we'll need to send this around in emails to each other so that it can THEN go to SNOPES' "inboxer rebellion".
posted on 10/18/2003 10:39:10 AM PDT
To: Dallas59; CheneyChick; vikingchick; Victoria Delsoul; WIMom; kmiller1k; mhking; rdb3; ...
Great post from the Time Machine.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:44:19 AM PDT
(No Drivers' Licences for Illegal Aliens. Petition SB60. http://www.saveourlicense.com/n_home.htm)
Great find. Thanks for posting it.
Ah yes, the European Quagmire.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:51:12 AM PDT
(Poverty begins at home.)
This is an EXCELLENT article that cannot get TOO MUCH attention.
posted on 10/18/2003 11:13:10 AM PDT
John Dos Passos
John Dos Passos, the illegitimate son of a prominent American attorney, was born in Chicago in 1896. Brought up by his mother in Virginia, and for a time lived in France. Dos Passos returned to the United States to attend Harvard University.
Dos Passos left university to join the Allied war effort in Europe. He served as an ambulance driver in France and Italy during the First World War and afterwards drew upon these experiences in his novels, One Man's Initiation (1920) and Three Soldiers (1921).
In 1922 Dos Passos published a collection of essays, Rosinante to the Road Again, and a volume of poems, A Pushcart at the Curb. However, his literary reputation was established with his well-received novel Manhattan Transfer (1925).
As well as writing plays such as The Garbage Man (1926), Airways (1928) and Fortune Heights (1934), Dos Passos contributed articles for left-wing journals such as the New Masses.
In 1927 he joined with other artists such as Upton Sinclair, Dorothy Parker, Edna St. Vincent Millay, Ben Shahn, Floyd Dell in the campaign against the proposed execution of Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti. This included the writing of Facing the Chair: Sacco and Vanzetti (1927).
The 1930s saw the publication of his USA trilogy: The 42nd Parallel (1930), 1919 (1932) and The Big Money (1936). Dos Passos developed the experimental literary device where the narratives intersect and continue from one novel to the next. The USA trilogy also included what became known as newsreels (impressionistic collections of slogans, popular song lyrics, newspaper headlines and extracts from political speeches).
Dos Passos was active in the campaign against the growth of fascism in Europe. He joined other literary figures such as Dashiell Hammett, Clifford Odets, Lillian Hellman and Ernest Hemingway in supporting the Republicans during the Spanish Civil War. However Dos Passos gradually became disillusioned with left-wing politics and this is reflected in his novels, The Adventures of a Young Man (1939) and Number One (1943).
Other books by Dos Passos include the novels, The Grand Design (1949), Chosen Country (1951) and Midcentury (1961), a biography, The Head and Heart of Thomas Jefferson (1954) and an autobiography, The Best of Times: An Informal Memoir (1966). John Dos Passos died in 1970.
(1) John Dos Passos, Facing the Chair: Sacco and Vanzetti (1927)
On June 3rd 1919 a bomb exploded outside the Washington house of Attorney General A. Mitchell Palmer. In the previous months various people had received bombs through the mail, one of them blowing off the two hands of the unfortunate housemaid who undid the package. No one, and least of all the federal detectives ever seems to have discovered who committed these outrages or why they were committed. But their result was to put a scare into every public official in the country, and particularly into Attorney General Palmer.
No one knew where the lightning would strike next. The signing of peace had left the carefully stirred up hatred of the war years unsatisfied. It was easy for people who knew what they were doing to turn the terrors of government officials and the unanalyzed feeling of distrust of foreigners of the average man into a great crusade of hate against reds, radicals, dissenters of all sorts. The Department of Justice, backed by the press, frenziedly acclaimed by the man on the street, invented an immanent revolution.
(2) John Dos Passos, Facing the Chair: Sacco and Vanzetti (1927)
Why were these men held as murderers and highwaymen and not as anarchists and advocates of the working people? Among a people that does not recognize or rather does not admit the force and danger of ideas it is impossible to prosecute the holder of unpopular ideas directly. Also there is a smoldering tradition of freedom that makes those who do it feel guilty. After all everyone learnt the Declaration of Independence and "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" in school, and however perfunctory the words have become they have left a faint infantile impression on the minds of most of us. Hence the characteristic American weapon of the frameup. If two Italians are spreading anarchist propaganda, you hold them for murder.
(3) John Dos Passos, speech (1938)
I have come to think, especially since my trip to Spain, that civil liberties must be protected at every stage. In Spain I am sure that the introduction of GPU methods by the Communists did as much harm as their tank men, pilots and experienced military men did good. The trouble with an all powerful secret police in the hands of fanatics, or of anybody, is that once it gets started there's no stopping it until it has corrupted the whole body politic. I am afraid that's what's happening in Russia.
(4) Marion Merriman, the wife of Robert Merriman, met Ernest Hemingway and John Dos Passos in Madrid in 1937. She later wrote about the meeting in her book American Commander in Spain: Robert Hale Merriman and the Abraham Lincoln Brigade (1986)
As we drove into Madrid, the first thing we saw was the big bullring - the Moorish architecture, arch upon arch, dusky brown with beautiful coloring in the tiles, the columns. It was magnificent, I thought. Entering Madrid was like entering any big city's industrial section. We drove through a ring of factories, then into the nicer part of the city.
'Even under bombardment, Madrid is marvelous!' I said to Bob. The wide tree-lined boulevards and modern buildings had an air of dignity that even blocks of bombed-out ruins could not dispel.
But the scene changed, quickly. As we walked down a broad boulevard, we heard the crack of rifle fire. Then the tempo picked up. 'That's machine gun fire,' Bob said. The machine-guns rattled in the distance, perhaps a few blocks away, I couldn't be sure. Then we heard the boom of artillery and the reality of Madrid at war returned deeply to me. The artillery shell landed some distance away, collapsing part of a building, which fell into a rubble of dust. We dashed down the street, staying close to the buildings. The horror of war was driven home to me. I was terrified.
I was shaking badly when we entered the Hotel Florida and went directly up the stairs to Hemingway's room. Bob steadied me, then knocked on the door.
'Hello, I'm Merriman,' Bob said as Hemingway, looking intense but friendly, opened the door.
'I know,' Hemingway said. Bob introduced me, and the writer greeted me warmly.
Then Hemingway and Bob fell into conversation about the war and the broadcast they planned. They were joined by John Dos Passos, Josephine Herbst, and a scattering of American volunteers and correspondents who sipped Hemingway's scotch and compared notes and stories. I slipped into an old chair, still quite shaken by the action outside.
I studied Bob and Hemingway. They got along. Each talked for a moment, then listened to the other. How different they were, I thought, Bob at twenty-eight, Hemingway at least a good ten years older. Hemingway seemed complex. He was big and bluff and macho. He didn't appear to be a braggart but he got across the message, through an air of self-assurance, that he could handle what he took on.
Bob was taller than Hemingway by several inches. They looked at each other through the same kind of round glasses, Bob's frames of tortoise shell, Hemingway's of steel.
Hemingway was animated, gesturing as he asked questions, scratching his scalp through thick dark hair, perplexed, then scowling, then, something setting him off, laughing from deep down. He wore a sweater, buttoned high on his chest, and a dark tie, loosened at the neck.
Bob was clean shaven. Hemingway needed a shave. He didn't appear to be growing a beard, he just seemed to need a shave, the scrubble roughing his cheeks and chin. He looked like he had had a hard night. He had a knot on his forehead, probably suffered in some roustabout skirmish.
Hemingway sipped a scotch, as did Bob. Someone offered me a drink, and I thought I'd never been as happy in my life to get a drink of whiskey. Even in the relatively safe room I remained frightened. The sheer madness of the war would not leave my mind.
As Bob and Hemingway talked, the contrast between them struck me time and again. Bob was an intellectual, and he looked like one. Hemingway was an intellectual, but he looked more like an adventurer. Bob looked like an observer. Hemingway looked like a man of action.
I was fascinated by Dos Passes, whom I had always thought was a better writer than Hemingway. John Dos Passes was, without question, a seasoned writer of the prose of war. But as a man, he didn't impress me. I thought he was wishy-washy. I couldn't make out everything he was saying, but his message was clear - for whatever reasons, he
wanted out of there, out of Hemingway's room, out of bomb-shaken Madrid.
I was scared too, with good reason. But somehow Dos Passes acted more than scared. I guessed it was his uncertainty, his facial expressions, his general attitude that this was a lost cause, given the superior strength of the Franco forces. Dos Passes criticized the Spanish Republic, for which Americans were fighting and dying.
Hemingway, on the other hand, let you know by his presence and through his writing exactly where he stood. Hemingway had told the world of the murder in Madrid, including the murder of children by fascist bombing. He had told about 'the noises kids make when they are hit. There is a sort of foretaste of that when the child sees the planes coming and yells "Aviacion!" Then, too, some kids are very quiet when they are hit - until you move them.'
Available from Amazon Books (order below)
|1896 - 1970
One of Chicago's most famous novelists, John Dos Passos was born here in 1896. He attended Harvard University, graduating in 1916. Like several other well-known writers of his generation, he volunteered in World War I before the US entered the war. The next time the United States went to war, Dos Passos served as a war correspondent for Life Magazine in the Pacific and South America. The observation and writing skills he learned as a reporter came through in his fictional works; in fact, critics have sometimes even faulted him for being too objective.
Critics count Dos Passos among America's greatest writers, but many note a decline in the artistic quality of his work over time. While Sinclair Lewis hailed "Manhattan Transfer" as one of the most important novels ever written, works from later in Dos Passos's life have been greeted with less enthusiasm. His most contentious work is the trilogy "USA," a novel of protest with a distinct tone that is difficult to pin down.
Dos Passos was somewhat radical in his youth - among other political activities, he founded the publication "New Masses" in 1926. But he became more conservative as he grew older. Some critics have said that his political transformation was less a shift in ideology than a changing manifestation of his lifelong belief in rugged American individualism. He wrote several books about one of his personal heroes, Thomas Jefferson.
One Man's Initiation, 1917 Three Soldiers, 1921 A Pushcart at the Curb, 1922 Rosinante to the Road Again, 1922 Streets of Night, 1923 Manhattan Transfer, 1925 Orient Express, 1927 Facing the Chair, 1927 Manual Maples Arce Metropolis, 1929 42nd Parallel, 1930 Panama, 1931 Nineteen Nineteen, 1932 In All Countries, 1934 Three Plays, 1934 The Big Money, 1936 Journeys Between Wars, 1938 Adventures of a Young Man, 1939 The Ground We Stand On, 1941 Number One, 1943 State of the Nation, 1944 First Encounter, 1945 Tour of Duty, 1946 The Grand Design, 1949 USA, 1950 Chosen Country, 1951 District of Columbia, 1952 Most Likely to Succeed, 1954 The Head and Heart of Thomas Jefferson, 1954 Men Who Made the Nation, 1957 Great Days, 1958 Midcentury, 1961 Mr. Wilson's War, 1962 Brazil on the Move, 1963 Occasions and Protests, 1964 Thomas Jefferson: The Making of a President, 1964 The Portugal Story: Three Centuries of Exploration and Discovery, 1964 The Shackles of Power: Three Jeffersonian Decades, 1966 The Best Times: An Informal Memoir, 1966 The Theme is Freedom, 1970 Afterglow and Other Undergraduate Writings, 1990
posted on 10/18/2003 12:05:54 PM PDT
(G_d is at war with Amalek for all generations)
To: Austin Willard Wright; arete
Hmmmm...this all sounds VERY familiar...
posted on 10/18/2003 12:32:22 PM PDT
by Mr. Silverback
(Pray for Terry Schiavo, being murdered by a judge in Florida.)
Invaluable. A great post. Thanks.
posted on 10/18/2003 12:37:09 PM PDT
To: Steve Eisenberg
Dos Passos went from being a near-communist in the 1930's to being a true prominent
conservative in the 1950's.
Sounds a bit similar to the path trod by George Orwell...
posted on 10/18/2003 12:49:08 PM PDT
Time even named him man of the year in 1938. The western lamestream media has
always had a fondness for leftist dictators. And make no mistake, Hitler was a leftist!
And it's not always just the left-leaning part of the media that falls for
Although I've never seen it in print, when I was young, older relatives
told me that the Gaylord who was running The Daily Oklahoman empire
in the 1930s and 40s praised Mussolini before the Oklahoma state legislature.
I suspect that in this case, it was an American conservative looking at
another journalist (Mussolini's early occupation) and being awed by how Benito got
to run a country and to some degree actually make the trains run on time...even in Italy.
posted on 10/18/2003 12:57:00 PM PDT
To: Sabertooth; Timesink
That we are one world is unfortunately a brutal truth. Punishing the
German Iraqi people indiscriminately for the sins of their leader may be justice, but it is not helping to restore the rule of civilization.
I think I've heard Wolf Blitzer saying this, hehehe.
posted on 10/18/2003 12:58:26 PM PDT
by Victoria Delsoul
(The CA recall's biggest losers are the three musketeers: the RATS, the LAT, and the National Inquire)
posted on 10/18/2003 1:42:21 PM PDT
(DEFUND NPR & PBS - THE AMERICAN PRAVDA)
To: Dallas59; Sabertooth
Thanks for the post and the ping, guys!
Oh, the chaos of peace!
posted on 10/18/2003 3:49:27 PM PDT
We have swept away Hitlerism, but a great many Europeans feel that the cure has been worse than the disease.
Great post from the Time Machine.
Agreed. The atrocities committed by the Soviets was, and is, under reported.
After the intial conquest and brutalities, the ethnic cleansing of Germans from Pommerainia, Selisia, Prussia, and Sudetenland was anything but gentle.
posted on 10/18/2003 4:42:09 PM PDT
(right of Rush, and Buchanan too.)
And then there was the Marshall Plan, one of the most spledidly successful government endeavors even attempted and achieved. Patience is a virtue.
posted on 10/18/2003 9:49:40 PM PDT
And then there was the Marshall Plan, one of the most spledidly successful government endeavors even attempted and achieved. Patience is a virtue
Yeah, we'll be in Iraq at least a decade. It'll take a disaster (or a Democrat) to get us out early, and a bigger disaster will follow if we leave early.
A point about the Marshall Plan: I think the model is overused. One of the keys to its success is that Europe was trashed. WWII was dirty, long, and bloody enough to kill enough of the bad guys and bludgeon the spirit of war from the survivors. Those circumstances made it a lot easier to plant the seeds for our way of doing things.
I'm interested in seeing whether a three week war with a more foreign culture tills the ground in quite the same way.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:29:33 PM PDT
(No Drivers' Licences for Illegal Aliens. Petition SB60. http://www.saveourlicense.com/n_home.htm)
Yes, it is overused. Europe had a skilled and disciplined workforce, that just needed someplace to work productively. But if the model will work anywhere in the Arab world, it will work in Iraq. We shall see.
posted on 10/18/2003 10:34:05 PM PDT
Tony Snow used this on FOX News Sunday, today. It was superb.
posted on 10/19/2003 8:47:02 AM PDT
(One by one, in groups or whole armies.....we don't care how we getcha, but we will)
Thanks for the heads up!
To: BOBTHENAILER; ItisaReligionofPeace
It ran again last night on FNC, I believe on Brit Hume's show. Extensive coverage, they spent some time on it, even had a Liberal professor comment, to be "fair and balanced". He made some "similarities are superficial" natterings. I can verify which show, if anyone really needs to know, I'm pretty sure it's still on the TiVo.
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