Doctors defend life for Schiavo

St. Petersburg Times ^ | October 25, 2003 | WILLIAM R. LEVESQUE

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

["Once the governor thinks it is the proper role of the Legislature and he set aside the judgment of the courts, that requires us to get the courts to declare that is just unconstitutional," said Howard Simon, executive director of the ACLU of Florida.]

The unmitigated hubris of these people! They take offense with the Legislature enacting legislation and the Executive signing it into law -- leaving the Gods in black robes on the sidelines! Feh.

[sweetliberty]

Terri's army ping! Apologies if you have already been pinged to this thread. I know some of you are on several lists.

If anyone wants on or off the "Terri's Army" ping list, please let me know.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

The Left would just as soon dispense with the Congress and govern by Monarchy. In the meantime, they settle for governance by the Judiciary.

[MarMema]

The National Right to Life site has "wills for life" for every state. You can google them and find the wills easily I am sure.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

In Terri Schiavo's case, her personality is gone. All that is left is an empty automaton. It hardly seems a dignified way to live.

That is from YOUR perspective based upon how YOU would chose to live given YOUR circumstances and conditioning. You have NO perspective of what is going on in her mind and spirit. She could be experiencing pure JOY, perhaps closer to God that anyone else could ever be. You simply have no way of knowing that. So you would have no doubt about killing her?

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Neither can Steven Hawking. (severe muscular dystrophy). This man cannot care for himself at all, yet won a Nobel Prize

AND he posseses one of the most brilliant minds of all time. But given the opportunity, the ACLU would have been pleased to see him mercifully euthanized years before he wrote his first book, A Brief History of Time, an absolutely awesome body of work. Excellent example, Julie!

[KosmicKitty]

The NYTimes has pulled the article. Do you have the full text in cache?

I just checked and got to the article on the Times web site. Am making a personal copy right now, but you should be able to reach it at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/28/magazine/28VEGETAT.html?ex=1067227200&en=865c6ff5943a49e2&ei=5070

[sweetliberty]

"Once the governor thinks it is the proper role of the Legislature and he set aside the judgment of the courts, that requires us to get the courts to declare that is just unconstitutional,"

Hey *ssh*le! The courts are not God! Why don't you take up a collection and buy yourself a freakin' clue! Terri's most fundamental Constitutional right is the right to LIFE! The rest of it is built on that SIMPLE premise, one that simple-minded pod people such as yourself can't seem to wrap your little pea brains around. If Michael Schiavo were to go into Terri's room and smother her with a pillow, would he be guilty of murder, or simply of "helping her die?" And yet, that would be more humane than what he is trying to get the court to allow him to do to her.

The government actually worked just exactly the way it is supposed to work for once when the people rose up and moved the hands of the legislative and the executive branches to overturn an UNCONSTITUTIONAL decision by an out of control judiciary. Don't you just hate when that happens? Did they ever teach your dumb@$$ in public school that we are a government OF the people, BY the people and FOR the people? The people can tell the difference between allowing someone to die who is being forced to live and allowing someone to live that is being forced to die! < /unladylike rant >

[Deo volente]

"Three doctors who have examined Mrs. Schiavo for the family said they are convinced that she retains some level of consciousness.
Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Clearwater neurologist, said Mrs. Schiavo's eyes fixate on her family and she tries to follow simple commands, such as when doctors ask her to pull against their arm.
"This is a case about a judicial system making an error," Hammesfahr said."



Terri is NOT COMATOSE.

She is "MINIMALLY CONSCIOUS".


http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0161.html?printable=1


A. Diagnostic criteria distinguishing VS (vegetative state) from MCS (minimally conscious state)

Several diagnostic criteria have been proposed (Giacino et al, 1997; Aspen Neurobehavioral Conference Workgroup, submitted). At least one criterion should be present and occur on a reproducible or sustained basis to diagnose MCS:

1. follows simple commands,
2. gestural or verbal "yes/no" responses (regardless of accuracy),
3. intelligible verbalization
4. movements or affective behaviors that occur in contingent relation to relevant environmental stimulus and are not attributable to reflexive activity.

Any of the following behavioral examples provide sufficient evidence for criterion 4 (MCS), although this list is not meant to be exhaustive:



The MORE FAVORABLE PROGNOSIS of MCS over VS and the ABSENCE OF ESTABLISHED GUIDLINES FOR PERMANENCE of MCS would AFFECT DECISIONS with respect to duration of rehabilitative efforts and withdrawal of treatment, INCLUDING FLUID AND NUTRITION. The potential for communication supports greater emphasis on strategies to promote arousal and developing alternative or augmentative systems of communication. The potential for pain and suffering in patients in MCS, in contrast to patients in VS, supports a greater emphasis on comfort measures and on administering or withholding treatment that might cause or avoid discomfort. (MY CAPITALS)

[TaxRelief]

This worked! Thanks. Fascinating article. Have you checked to make sure that there are no changes or insertions in the article? Just a thought.

[FR_addict]

We need to email your info on this doctor and any info on the other two doctors in the first post of this thread to FoxNews. Perhaps they will put the other side on, if we make it easy for them.

I was surprised and happy that Greta had a medical forensic expert on. He looked over the medical records at the time of her "supposed heart attack" and indicated foul play could not be ruled out.

Greta may be the only one on television to cover the medical evidence of foul play. Has anyone else on television covered Terri's bone scan and medical records?

Here's her contact info:
On the Record with Greta
Ontherecord@foxnews.com

Here's FoxNews contact list for all the shows
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77538,00.html

[sweetliberty]

"I wouldn't care if she had a stalk growing out of her head and roots growing out of her bottom."

ROTFL! Your point is well- taken, and I happen to agree, but that mental image is hysterical.

[sweetliberty]

"I would like to have a living will that says "Anyone who unplugs me will be hunted like vermin, and will die in a manner that makes a persistent vegitative state a very attractive alternative."

LOL! You people are funny today. That's okay, with the intensity of this fight, I can use the laugh break.

[sweetliberty]

"I imagine that Michael started this court battle either because of greed or guilt, never imagining that at the end of the battle he would not profit financially or at least be absolved of having anything to do with her present condition."

I'll guarantee you one thing he never anticipated....he never considered the kind of public scrutiny he is being subjeced to right now. He thought he was going to pull off his dirty little plan and no one would be any the wiser...no one that he and Felos couldn't intimidate that is.

[TaxRelief]

From Florida Statutes Title VI, Chapter 61, Part 1:

61.052 Dissolution of marriage.

(1) No judgment of dissolution of marriage shall be granted unless one of the following facts appears, which shall be pleaded generally:

(a) The marriage is irretrievably broken.

(b) Mental incapacity of one of the parties. However, no dissolution shall be allowed unless the party alleged to be incapacitated shall have been adjudged incapacitated according to the provisions of s. 744.331 for a preceding period of at least 3 years. Notice of the proceeding for dissolution shall be served upon one of the nearest blood relatives or guardian of the incapacitated person, and the relative or guardian shall be entitled to appear and to be heard upon the issues. If the incapacitated party has a general guardian other than the party bringing the proceeding, the petition and summons shall be served upon the incapacitated party and the guardian; and the guardian shall defend and protect the interests of the incapacitated party. If the incapacitated party has no guardian other than the party bringing the proceeding, the court shall appoint a guardian ad litem to defend and protect the interests of the incapacitated party. However, in all dissolutions of marriage granted on the basis of incapacity, the court may require the petitioner to pay alimony pursuant to the provisions of s. 61.08.

[sweetliberty]

"Berlin, 1 Sept. 1939

Reich Leader Bouhler and Dr. Med. Brandt are charged with the responsibility of enlarging the competence of certain physicians, designated by name, so that patients who, on the basis of human judgment, are considered incurable, can be granted mercy death after a discerning diagnosis."

A. Hitler

Good find Julie, and highly (and frighteningly) relevant.

[Graymatter]

I'm sure Greta has gotten her first warning from Felos by now.

[eno_]

I just want to be able to express my final wishes. I can envision some docs being unclear on the concept until my son explains how this clause gets enforced.

[eno_]

I believe life is a powerful force that is difficult to extinguish. I am also not so arrogant as to think that my intellect is "me." That is why I would avoid being unplugged, even if my guardians must enforce my wishes by means that are not strictly authorized. I would do the same for my loved ones. Anyone who wants to unplug them forfeits their own life.

[sweetliberty]

Well, I sent the ACLJ info to Terri's family and supporters after Budge talked to them yesterday, and someone, I forget who now, called Pat Anderson's office and spoke to them about it, so they are aware of the possiblility of involving ACLJ. I believe that may be on the thread about the ACLU getting involved.