US TV set for 'Jesus wife' storm

BBC ^ | 10/31/03

[Conservative til I die]

I love when people just come in and tear down 2000 years of history with the off the cuff "hey, like what's the big deal D00DZ?

Now that's scholarship!!!

[Conservative til I die]

The problem is your argument is from ommission. You're saying that Jesus was married or could have been married because the Bible says nothing about Him from 13-30. By that logic, he could have also sailed to America, flew to the moon, or fought in wars for the Roman Empire. More telling, is the fact that the Bible, talking about Jesus from the age of 30-33 says absolutely nothing about Christ having a wife, sexual relations, or offspring.

And the Canonical Gospels were written by those who were either apostles themselves, working from the teachings of these apostles, or followers of Christ. I'll take their testimony over that of say, someone liveing in the year 2003 saying "Well the Bible never said he didn't" or even the other false gospels that sprang up with no credibility (remember, people that lived with Christ were alive until 70-100 AD and their direct followers would still be alive into the 2nd century) in say, the year 125 or 200.

[Conservative til I die]

Yeah, that will win you debate points with Christians, arguing based on the Mormon belief system. Most of us consider the Mormons to either be cultic, or at best, pseudo- or quasi-Christian. Either way, we place little stock in their arguments about Christ or His nature.

[Conservative til I die]

B-b-b-b-butttt, th-th-th-th-that's n-n-n-n-not what the P-p-p-p-pope said!

BBbb-uu-tttt, th-th-that's nn-n-n-n-ot what the Catholic CHurch has taught, since the beginning of the Church, even though that verse has always been there! Wonder why.

[A.J.Armitage]

In case you hadn't noticed, the text continues past that point.

Verses 15 and 16:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

Now you'll say some scholar asserts that these were added later because the Logos obviously isn't human, and his personal opinion trumps the text.

[A.J.Armitage]

He didn't say that Jesus was married, merely speculated about his "train."

I love Mormon logic. He was just speculating about His train, so therefore pay no attention to the fact that the speculation consisted of saying the train was His wife and children. Nope, no claim that Jesus was married there.

Kinda like how Lorenzo Snow's most famous blasphemy was "just a couplet". Apparently no more than one fact can be true about a thing at once. So if it's true that it's in couplet form, it can't also be true that it asserts God was once as we are now.

Don't you find it odd that denominations that don't claim prophetic authority for their leaders spend so much less time calling their leaders' comments "just speculation" "just a couplet" "speaking as a man", ect?

[razorbak]

The Mormons shouldn't mind this. Mormon leaders have consistently taught that God the Father ("Adam-god") had sexual relations on earth with Mary (his own spirit daughter), to produce the physical body of Jesus. Early Mormon apostles also asserted that Christ was a polygamist, and that His wives included Mary and Martha (the sisters of Lazarus) and Mary Magdalene.

[Ciexyz]

Somebody gave me The DaVinci Code to read, was raving about it. After reading this thread, I'm going to give that book back unread.

[Eaker]

I'm going to give that book back unread.

Rather than read it and see what all the fuss is really about??? It is next on my list.

[maestro]

Yep,....."The 66".......are the Best!

(Romans 10:10

Maranatha!!

[Gargantua]

"I don't think luck plays any role..."

It truly doesn't. There is no luck involved in the personal acceptance of the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

Well, it looks like we've built the same library.

Very interesting. I've got a stack of other books on "alternative" history, including some really wacky books, as well as some that are more scholarly in their approach. I enjoy the story telling ability of Knight & Lomas. I also enjoy Robert Bauval & Graham Hancock and have several of their books. If you ever want to compare notes, just freepmail me.

[Jim Cane]

No one is kookier, yet more entertaining than Stitchen, 'cept maybe Velikovsky.

[Orbiting_Rosie's_Head]

No one is kookier, yet more entertaining than Stitchen, 'cept maybe Velikovsky

Funny you should mention Zecharia Sitchin. I was going to admit that he was the author of the "wacky" books in my library, but was kind of embarassed. I've actually read the entire "earth chronicles" series, and have an autographed copy of "The Cosmic Code". I saw one of his lectures in Baltimore in 1999, it was great fun. I've only perused Velikovsky's stuff at the library, but no kooky info library is quite complete without at least one work by Erich von Daniken.

[Mortimer Snavely]

"Anyway, isn't it kind of a stretch to describe Christ as a word?.... you are losing the entire Neo-Platonic context the word was used in. "

Actually, you are the one ignoring the intellectual environment of the Hellenistic world of that time.

A serious intellectual question of the day was the nature of the "seminal word," the "uncaused cause" of Aristotelian thought.

John descrtibed it as Christ, whereby "the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us..."

Prior to this verse, there was nothing in the the Gospel of John with which Aristotelian thinkers could disagree, the writer was merely describing the universally agreed upon nature of the seminal logos: "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made."

This was a noncontroversial repetition of the nature of the Word. Anyone hearing it back then would have agreed with it. It was basic to Aristotelianism.

The next bit, though, was the corker. It was an idea never conceived of before:

"And the word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" "And the word was made (became) flesh, and dwelt among us."

THAT was how Christianity introduced itself into the Helllenistic world.

[Capt. Canuck]

Man, some of you guys are way to uptight. I don't know if he did or didn't (and taking EITHER side is not supported by the Bible as far as see), but if he did I hope she rocked his world and didn't nag him about hanging out the guys so much.

Now if you don't mind, my wife is dressed as a french maid and says she needs my help with something in the master bedroom...

[SunkenCiv]