1-shot killer

Army Times ^ | November 24, 2003 | John G. Roos

[archy]

Ben Thomas and three colleagues were driving north out of Baghdad in an SUV on a clear mid-September morning, headed down a dirt road into a rural village, when gunmen in several surrounding buildings opened fire on them.

In a brief but intense firefight, Thomas hit one of the attackers with a single shot from his M4 carbine at a distance he estimates was 100 to 110 yards.

[archy]

Blame Squantos!

A good rule of thumb in any event.

-archy-/-

[Squantos]

LMAO !!............:o)

Stay Safe !

[in the Arena]

Clay Block on Left: Shot with a 230 gr. Hydroshok 45 ACP. Clay Block on the Right: Shot with RBCD Performance Plus 90 gr. TFSP 45 ACP.

Don't you think the velocity difference alone would make the 90 gr more 'lethal' ? RBCD list the 90 gr at 2036 fps/ 828 ftlbs...I don't have the specs handy for the 230 gr Hydroshok but I can't believe it's above 900fps...

[in the Arena]

By keeping the nose of the bullet hollow, they kept the weight down

Hey Shooter,

I believe that the reason the SMK has the 'hollow' tip is because of the swaging during the manufacturing process. The copper cylinder is formed around the lead core from the bottom up leaving the opening.

I've shot both the 168 SMK and the 165 Sierra Game King through water jugs and the Game King definitely had more of an 'explosive' reaction. The Game King is for all purposes identical to the Match King except the lead core is exposed at the tip. As far as accuracy, the Game King performs sub MOA as does the SMK...both will go sub 0.5 MOA at 100 yards from the bench.

[Squantos]

Texasproud turned me on to this company about 2 years ago and albeit not having had to use it in self defense I have carried it in my pistols and revolvers. Good company and am pleased with the report. BTW this was 5.56 frangible ammo ??

Stay Safe !

[yarddog]

This subject has always interested me.

In a lifetime of shooting I have formed only a few opinions. First of all, high velocity hollow points and other expanding bullets do kill better on medium to small animals.

I have only killed two deer, both with pistols. I have killed maybe 50 feral dogs and almost anything with a high velocity will kill them fast. Same goes for raccoons, possums, wild cats, etc.

Just last week, I killed a coon near the edge of my yard. He was up a large hickory and I normally would have just let him alone but I wanted my 11 month old pup to get a chance to fight a coon. I hit him once with a .22 out of a three inch barrel auto. The coon hit the ground and tried to climb the tree again but expired within a few seconds. The dog didn't get a chance to fight him.

The reason I mention this is that about 30 years ago, I killed a coon with a .45 auto. I hit him three times in the thorax and he still had enough fight to whip my dog for a few minutes. Based on that I would conclude that a .22 is a better killer than a .45 auto. Everyone knows that is not true but to be honest, I am not absolutely certain.

[Hat-Trick]

That was cold. Most of us were rebellious and intemperate in our youth, and deserve a good deal of forgiveness for our past misdeeds. ;-)

Hat-Trick

[Squantos]

LOL....It's OK.... My bro Eaker and I kick each other in the ass at least once a week.....:o)

Stay Safe !

[Tijeras_Slim]

I don't believe I would insult a Gurkha, I have a liking for the way me head is attached.

[Tijeras_Slim]

My bro Eaker and I kick each other in the ass at least once a week.....:o)

Concussions would explain a lot... :)

[Squantos]

Have to wonder about temporary wound cavity vs permanent wound cavity. If that energy "stays" within the body then I believe you are correct about the 90 grainer being the better of the two. I know of a spec op unit that shoots pigs and goats and then uses them to train their med techs for treatment of gunshot wounds. BBQ and Beer if they fail the test.....

I'll ask or suggest that they "evaluate" this round on a soft skin likeness of human. Maybe even a pic or three and of course ....good eats !

Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

LOL.....Overpressure !

[Squantos]

http://www.lemasltd.com/1Shot/FactorFiction.htm


More good info........Stay Safe !

[in the Arena]

I may have mis-wrote that post...what I tried to imply was that comparing the 230 to the 90 is like apples and oranges when the velocity is so mismatched. I believe the 230 would dump more of it's energy into the target...agreeing with your temporary/permanent analysis...of course, the hardend penetration of the blended metal bullet may be a great benefit.

Thanks for the link in the other post...the pictures of the 10mm SPLP are impressive...I hate to think other than .45ACP but this is something worth researching.

[Travis McGee]

Army "Goat Lab" story. For the final problem the Navy Corpman had to run out and examine "his" goat for wounds. Nothing. Looked for small punctures, signs of poison etc. If he can't find it, he will fail the course. He finally comes back to the cadre, "Sir, that goat is not wounded."

Somebody hits the goat with a flame thrower. "He is now! Burns on 90% of his body. GO!"

(True story told to me by a frog doc.)

[patton]

Man, that is cold...LOL

[archy]

Army "Goat Lab" story. For the final problem the Navy Corpman had to run out and examine "his" goat for wounds. Nothing. Looked for small punctures, signs of poison etc. If he can't find it, he will fail the course. He finally comes back to the cadre, "Sir, that goat is not wounded." Somebody hits the goat with a flame thrower. "He is now! Burns on 90% of his body. GO!"

(True story told to me by a frog doc.)

New Zealand *When I was in Rookies* story:

Gentlemen - Welcome to this lesson on small arms instruction.
"Instruction Sergeant!"
This weapon is the 7.62 millimeter Self loading Rifle.
"Self Loading Rifle Sergeant!"
It has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 feet per second.
"2,800 feet per second Sergeant!"
With a 20 round magazine attached, it weighs 12 pounds.
"12 Pounds Sergeant!"
It is capable of rapid snapshot fire at short range opportunity targets.
"Rapid snapshot fire Sergeant!"
Excellent quick and accurate individual fire at a range of 100 metres.
"100 metres Sergeant!"
Accurate individual aimed shots up to 300 metres.
"300 metres Sergeant!"
Effective section fire at ranges up to 600 metres.
"600 metres Sergeant!"
I used this weapon in Vietnam and it was very bloody deadly.
"Very bloody deadly Sergeant!"
It has the capability to cut through rubber trees.
"Cut through rubber trees Sergeant!"
It can penetrate concrete gentlemen.
"Penetrate concrete Sergeant!"
It shows no mercy to the Viet Cong.
"No mercy Sergeant!"
Now look downrange and observe the tethered goat.
"Downrange and observe Sergeant!"
I will now engage the tethered goat with my SLR...Bang!
"Tethered goat...Oh $h!t Sarge! Yuk!"

Mike Subritzky 1971
BAA No: 92

(© Mike Subritzky - The Flak Jacket Collection

[MediaMole]

My Eyes, my eyes!

Yikes, I had to pepper spray myself to save my vision.

[archy]

I'll ask or suggest that they "evaluate" this round on a soft skin likeness of human.

There is a relatively realistic likeness of a human they might use available here that might be suitable for such a project Though you'll have to inquire elsewhere as to how soft the skin is for someone with hands-on experience. Might as well get some use out of it.

I do have a couple of forthcoming possibile opportunities to do some research on live targets myself, in one case on a boar hunt I've been offered a spot on, not far from either the company's Little Rock location or my present whereabouts. My other opportunity would not be on boar, and I'd need ammunition in either the 5.45x39 AK74 cartridge or the older and heavier 7,62x54r, my preference. I doubt I'll have a .223/5,56mm available.