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Man changed climate for 8,000 years?
CNN/Associated Press ^ | Wednesday, December 10, 2003

Posted on 12/10/2003 11:36:58 AM PST by anymouse

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:03:33 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Beginning 8,000 years ago, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide began to rise as humans started clearing forests, planting crops and raising livestock, a scientist said Tuesday. Methane levels started increasing 3,000 years later.

The combined increases of the two greenhouse gases implicated in global warming were slow but steady and staved off what should have been a period of significant natural cooling, said Bill Ruddiman, emeritus professor at the University of Virginia.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Technical; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: agu; algore; atmosphere; carbondioxide; catastrophism; cattle; climate; climatechange; globalwarming; globalwhining; godsgravesglyphs; greenhousegas; history; methane; rice; uva
More inconvenient facts getting in the way of liberal global whining. :)
1 posted on 12/10/2003 11:36:59 AM PST by anymouse
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To: anymouse
Gee, revisionist history strikes quickly. This morning it was 10,000 years. By tomorrow, it'll have started in 1981.
2 posted on 12/10/2003 11:39:21 AM PST by Prof Engineer (Middle Earth Air Force. For all of your supernatural weapons delivery needs.)
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To: Prof Engineer
Crazy thing is, those were the idyllic days when mankind lived in perfect harmony with the pristine, Eden-like "Gaia". The envirowackos will be deeply saddened.
3 posted on 12/10/2003 11:42:08 AM PST by Lil'freeper
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To: anymouse
In other words, if we reduce auto emissions to the same level as 8000 years ago, it still won't help.
4 posted on 12/10/2003 11:46:41 AM PST by 11th Earl of Mar
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To: anymouse
The prehistoric practices apparently overrode a buildup of ice that models predict should have occurred beginning 5,000 years ago.

I don't suppose anybody thought that maybe the model is wrong?

5 posted on 12/10/2003 11:46:46 AM PST by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: anymouse
Isn't this story just the cow fart theory revisited and updated?
6 posted on 12/10/2003 11:47:32 AM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: Prof Engineer
>>>>The combined increases of the two greenhouse gases implicated in global warming were slow but steady and staved off what should have been a period of significant natural cooling, said Bill Ruddiman, emeritus professor at the University of Virginia<<<<

How does this "professor" presume to know what should or should not have been happening to this planet?

No human being, no matter how educated, can acurately predict when it will rain or not rain, whether spring will begin on the 21st or the 22nd, etc...if we cant even predict the weather, what sort of ego can claim to know WHY or IF global warming is occuring...

How do we know or not if, in 1000 more years, "scientists" will probably discover the great benefit of global warming...geez...political, socialists hacks need to shut up about global warming. .

7 posted on 12/10/2003 11:49:14 AM PST by Roughneck (". . .For there is going to come a time when people won't listen to the truth. . .")
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To: Lucky Dog
only a REAL scientist could discover the previously unknown link between livestock and methane.....truly groundbreaking!
8 posted on 12/10/2003 11:52:37 AM PST by ConservativeDude
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To: Lil'freeper
ROFLOL. It's interesting watching hungry acedemics twist stuff around in order to keep gettng grant money.
9 posted on 12/10/2003 11:53:38 AM PST by Prof Engineer (Middle Earth Air Force. For all of your supernatural weapons delivery needs.)
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To: anymouse

Measurements of ancient air bubbles trapped in Antarctic ice offered evidence that humans have been changing the global climate since thousands of years before the industrial revolution.

Beginning 8,000 years ago, atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide began to rise as humans started clearing forests, planting crops and raising livestock, a scientist said Tuesday. Methane levels started increasing 3,000 years later.

 

8000 years?? LOL, The Vostok ice cores show that CO2 has always increased after increasing temperature. Mainly from release from solution from oceans, increase in biomass (animals & decaying/burning vegetation, etc.)


10 posted on 12/10/2003 11:56:21 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: anymouse
More inconvenient facts getting in the way of liberal global whining.

These are all "facts," but the many scientific articles demonstrating climate change is all hooey? Politics and science make strange bedfellows. This article doesn't disprove anything about the current level of climate change.
11 posted on 12/10/2003 11:56:27 AM PST by Egregious Philbin
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To: Prof Engineer
I am thankful, because not that long ago (in geological terms) where I am typing this (in Northern Minnesota) the ice was a mile thick.

If it wasn't for those SUV's and coal fired power plants back then this area would be still covered with ice.

Or it could be that the sun just warmed up a bit.

12 posted on 12/10/2003 11:57:56 AM PST by Voltage
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To: ConservativeDude
Which leads us to the cure for global warming: Beano for ruminants. Let's start a research foundation. It would, no doubt, be as successful as the last public organizations announcement for the cure for AIDS and drug addiction... "Just say no." Come to think of it, I think that is the real cure for global warming... just say no to idiotic pronouncements concerning eco-pseduo-science.
13 posted on 12/10/2003 11:58:57 AM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: Voltage
My vote is for sun, since we haven't uncovered any SUV's more than a century old. Yet.
14 posted on 12/10/2003 11:59:20 AM PST by Prof Engineer (Middle Earth Air Force. For all of your supernatural weapons delivery needs.)
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To: Lucky Dog
Isn't this story just the cow fart theory revisited and updated?

Sounds like it to me. What about the methane from those teaming herds of pre-historic bison, mammoths and other critters that man hunted to extinction. Weren't they simply rolling back greenhouse gas emissions?

These guys a grasping at straws now. They can't document their 20th century temp model so they invent a new fake model. Less than a million humans on earth 8000 years ago with very slow population growth were able to warm the global climate, but when global population started to take off big time in the early 17th century, we had two centuries of global cooling! Maybe they should model that.

15 posted on 12/10/2003 12:10:52 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: anymouse
Man should never have invented fire. Then all the trees would never die.
16 posted on 12/10/2003 12:12:36 PM PST by dead (I used to believe in a lot of things. All of it! Now I believe only in dynamite.)
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To: anymouse
You mean global warming isn't just the fault of rich, white, straight men from the Industrial Age?
17 posted on 12/10/2003 12:14:43 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: ancient_geezer
The chart makes it clear - warmer temperatures cause higher levels of CO2 and lower temperatures cause the CO2 concentration to go down.
18 posted on 12/10/2003 12:16:24 PM PST by trebb
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To: Ditto
So... Are you signing up for the Cow Beano research foundation? I am willing to take as many employees as a research grant from PETA or Earth-First will support.
19 posted on 12/10/2003 12:17:06 PM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: Prof Engineer
It amazes me that the "scientists" were able to isolate man made Carbon Dioxide from the natural emissions.
20 posted on 12/10/2003 12:19:00 PM PST by shotgun (Professional Civil Engineering observations)
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To: Lucky Dog
That real effect study was being done at WAZZU a decade ago. I understand their conclusions caused quite a stink....
21 posted on 12/10/2003 12:20:56 PM PST by shotgun (Professional Civil Engineering observations)
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To: shotgun
Yes, but was it a global warming stink?
22 posted on 12/10/2003 12:22:11 PM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: trebb
Couldn't the chart just as likely demostrate that CO2 increase causes Temperature increase? Not that I believe this, but correlation is not causation. Or rather, it doesn't suggest which caused which. Chicken or the egg, and all.
23 posted on 12/10/2003 12:28:34 PM PST by fiscally_right
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To: ancient_geezer
According to your chart were fixing to have another ice age here shortly - they seem to have appeared with some regularity. I think I'll go out and drive my suv around to help put off the next one. Don't thank me now.
24 posted on 12/10/2003 12:33:43 PM PST by Timocrat (I Emanate on your Auras and Penumbras)
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To: Lil'freeper
Crazy thing is, those were the idyllic days when mankind lived in perfect harmony with the pristine, Eden-like "Gaia". The envirowackos will be deeply saddened.

The only answer is to kill all humans.

< /environmentalists>

25 posted on 12/10/2003 12:35:09 PM PST by Lazamataz (Hillary Clinton is a CLINQUANT without the LINQA.)
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To: anymouse
Less than a million people 8,000 years ago causing global warming in ludicrous. In light of the recent solar activity I am more inclined to vote the sun. It seems more reasonable that the sun itself could be the cause.

Others have studied the ice too:

Wed Oct 29 2003 10:05:09 ET
SUN IN FRENZY SINCE 1940
"German scientists who have created a 1,000-year-record of sunspots said Wednesday they discovered the Sun has been in a frenzy since 1940 and this may be a factor in global warming...
The research, based on the quantities of the isotope beryllium 10 found in ice bores from Greenland and the Antarctic, challenges the belief that carbon dioxide from cars and coal fires and other greenhouse gases are the only cause of recent warmer climates."

26 posted on 12/10/2003 12:41:54 PM PST by sasportas
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To: Lucky Dog
I like it. Beano for Bovines! Maybe we can get some EPA money like the hustlers behind these "models".
27 posted on 12/10/2003 12:49:47 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: anymouse
ANCHORAGE, ALASKA Wednesday, December 10, 2003 -- Scientists were speechless today when a Klondike SUV has uncovered in a glacier core-dated to 6,000 B.C.E. ...
28 posted on 12/10/2003 12:49:52 PM PST by pabianice
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To: fiscally_right
I believe your rendition is what the chart was meant to represent; I was having fun...
29 posted on 12/10/2003 12:50:15 PM PST by trebb
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To: Izzy Dunne
Notice that sentence is the last in the article, not the first.
30 posted on 12/10/2003 12:56:36 PM PST by TheDon
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To: fiscally_right
Couldn't the chart just as likely demostrate that CO2 increase causes Temperature increase? Not that I believe this, but correlation is not causation. Or rather, it doesn't suggest which caused which. Chicken or the egg, and all.

While you're correct that correlation is not causation, a cause must occur before the suspected effect.

Note that the temperature increases before the CO2 does. The temperature increase may (or may not) cause the CO2 increase. The CO2 increase after the temperature increase certainly didn't cause the temperature to go up.

31 posted on 12/10/2003 1:02:12 PM PST by Bob
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To: Ditto
We will have to be careful with our research. If our Bovine Beano is discovered to reduce cud chewing, PETA will be after us. Do you have any thoughts on how we can please the environmentalist without angering the animal rightists?
32 posted on 12/10/2003 1:02:55 PM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: anymouse
Um, what about all the animals that were around then? I didn't know that our ancestors were more efficient at clearing trees than we are, considering that we have more people. They would have had to clear a heck of a lot of trees to cause that.
33 posted on 12/10/2003 1:03:17 PM PST by looscnnn ("Live free or die; death is not the worst of evils" Gen. John Stark 1809)
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To: fiscally_right
It's possible, but not entirely relevant to the 20th century CO2 increases, which have gone way beyond the levels seen in other interglacial periods with temperatures comparable to the present. The current level of CO2 in the atmosphere is abnormally high due to human activity.

What's disputed is the magnitude of warming attributable to CO2 increases.

34 posted on 12/10/2003 1:11:27 PM PST by Monti Cello
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To: anymouse
And just before this period, we have sheets of ice a mile thick covering all of North America. OK. I think I get it. The environweenies won't be happy until we are back in another ice age again. (This, by the way, was a plot element in a science fiction novel called Fallen Angels that dares to suggest that human activity might actually be keeping us out of the next ice aga.)
35 posted on 12/10/2003 1:17:12 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Lucky Dog
If our Bovine Beano is discovered to reduce cud chewing, PETA will be after us. Do you have any thoughts on how we can please the environmentalist without angering the animal rightists?

Hmmmm? Let me ruminate on that for a little bit. I'll get back to you.

36 posted on 12/10/2003 1:20:14 PM PST by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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To: Ditto
Well, I am sure your reply will be intelectually well digested... certainly more than I can say for the article that started this thread.
37 posted on 12/10/2003 1:25:32 PM PST by Lucky Dog
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To: anymouse
Who was this guy, and did he change his underwear, too?
38 posted on 12/10/2003 1:37:01 PM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: anymouse
Thank G-d we're not on Mercury or Venus, where natural forces change the climate (besides that, just a little to warm for my taste!)
39 posted on 12/10/2003 1:41:13 PM PST by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: pabianice

40 posted on 12/10/2003 2:42:16 PM PST by Calamari
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To: anymouse
INTREP - It amazes me that the world has such a limited view of God, the Creator, and His ability to sustain the earth in a condition that is liveable. You may disagree, and that's fine, but those of us who believe He created the heavens and the earth, also believe that He sustains it.

Amazing the difference a Biblical/Christian Worldview can have on one's perspective.

41 posted on 12/10/2003 3:13:34 PM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: fiscally_right
Couldn't the chart just as likely demostrate that CO2 increase causes Temperature increase?

Actually no, numerous studies have been done comparing the temperature data as it correlates with rising CO2. The temperature percedes CO2 in such studies.

 

CO2-Temperature Correlations

[ see also: Indermuhle et al. (2000), Monnin et al. (2001), Yokoyama et al. (2000), Clark and Mix (2000) ]

[see: Petit et al. (1999), Staufer et al. (1998), Cheddadi et al., (1998), Raymo et al., 1998, Pagani et al. (1999), Pearson and Palmer (1999), Pearson and Palmer, (2000) ]


 

Global warming and global dioxide emission and concentration:
a Granger causality analysis

http://isi-eh.usc.es/trabajos/122_41_fullpaper.pdf


42 posted on 12/10/2003 6:34:42 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: trebb

I believe your rendition is what the chart was meant to represent; I was having fun...

When comparing the actual data on which the charts were based, temperature does lead CO2 changes. See above. Have to remember that with a 400,000 year chart, one pixel width is more than 500 years in the size of the chart provided. The data relationships tell the real tale.

43 posted on 12/10/2003 6:39:18 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: sasportas
Less than a million people 8,000 years ago causing global warming in ludicrous.

Now, now.

Those burning forests, those evil rice paddies and those farting oxen must be the cause.

The only thing is, who ate all that danged rice?

Oh, those global warming models search high and low. And when they're wrong (as they usually are), it is very convenient for someone to produce data explaining away the "anomoly".

As Mark Twain once observed, it'a remarkable what conclusions can be drawn from a little bit of data.

44 posted on 12/10/2003 8:07:23 PM PST by Ole Okie (Sooners, get those Cajuns! Defeat LSU!)
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To: Ole Okie
8000 years ago, those pharts apparently had implications!
45 posted on 12/10/2003 8:11:21 PM PST by BobS
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To: Ole Okie
The problem with our global warming friends is not that they know so much, but that they know so much that isn't so.
46 posted on 12/10/2003 8:14:08 PM PST by ChadGore (No blood for ratings! This means YOU AOL-Time-Warner-Turner-CNN)
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To: Prof Engineer
How is it that people think we are so powerful that we can change the weather when we can barely predict it from day to day?
47 posted on 12/10/2003 8:21:54 PM PST by BJungNan (Now Bigger and Faster!)
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To: blam; Ernest_at_the_Beach; FairOpinion; StayAt HomeMother
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48 posted on 05/14/2006 4:58:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Catastrophism

49 posted on 05/14/2006 5:48:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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50 posted on 07/04/2010 6:12:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv ("Fools learn from experience. I prefer to learn from the experience of others." -- Otto von Bismarck)
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