Posted on 12/18/2003 1:58:51 PM PST by Headfulofghosts
This is from Milosevic's trial, with Presidential Canidate Wes Clark. I find this very interesting, what Milsosevic has to say.
MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] So I believe it is not in dispute that I said to you, General Clark, that these were terrorists, murderers, rapists, killers of their own kind. Is that right or is that not right? Was that clear or was that not clear?
A. You did say that to me in October of 1998, and that is the phrase you used. I remember you using it in English, "murderers, rapists, and killers of their own kind."
Q. And terrorists; right? Terrorists first and foremost.
22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Now, please put this picture up. These are men in KLA uniforms, and I hope that you will recognise the patch on the sleeve, the KLA patch. It can be seen on the left arm. So there is no doubt that this is the KLA. We see this too.
Ten years ago we were arming and equipping the worst elements of the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan - drug traffickers, arms smugglers, anti-American terrorists… we did same thing with the KLA, which is tied in with every known middle and far eastern drug cartel. Interpol, Europol, and nearly every European intelligence and counter-narcotics agency has files open on drug syndicates that lead right to the KLA, and right to Albanian gangs in this country. Furthermore, the KLA was involved in sex slaves. Furthermore, they were supported by Osama Bin Laden. Furthemore, two of the 9-11 hijackers, Saudi's Al Hamzmi and Al Midian " traveled" to Bosnia around the same time frame, meaning we trained them.
JUDGE MAY: That is unnecessary. Remove that picture, please. This is nothing to do with the evidence. Return the picture, please, to the accused.
THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. May, these men in KLA uniforms, I mean, this man is holding two Serb heads that had been cut off. Is that confirmation? I mean, are these allies of General Clark's infantry in Kosovo?
JUDGE MAY: Now, let us deal with this in a way which is relevant. The picture is not relevant. You can give evidence in due course about. You can call the witness, and you can produce these photographs if there is relevance of them, providing you establish that, but we have to deal with the general's evidence. Now, there hasn't been any dispute that you made these comments to him.
MR. NICE: Your Honour, if the Chamber's concerned about the production of that photograph and the effect it may have unsupported by any relevance, it could give consideration to redacting that part of the transcript. It's a matter entirely for the Chamber. We don't press you one way or the other.
[Trial Chamber confers]
JUDGE MAY: We'll consider that.
Yes, Mr. Milosevic. What is the point that you're trying to establish as far as the witness's evidence is concerned? You can ask other witnesses, you can call other evidence about the behaviour of the KLA, and indeed you've done so. I seem to remember a very great deal of 1 cross-examination about it already. If you wish, you can call some evidence, relevant evidence during the case, but I don't think we're going to take it any further with this witness.
THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, the KLA was a terrorist group.
MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation] Q. Isn't that right, General Clark? Is that in dispute or is that not in dispute?
JUDGE MAY: It may be a matter for us, but it's not a matter that arises from the witness's evidence.
THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The witness is talking about measures of repression against the KLA, and you see what kind of killersthey are. I have yet another photograph here, a group of 15 of them, with 13 severed heads. This is also not relevant for you; is that right, Mr. May?
JUDGE MAY: That is quite right. Quite right. You can call all 15 this evidence in due course. We are just dealing with a part of the evidence which is given by the general. The generalised evidence about the behaviour of the KLA, if it's relevant, you can give it in due course. Now, time is limited. If you want to ask him about the conversations, of course you can.
THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The general -- well, I mean the general is speaking in general terms about the KLA, and you did not allow me to show a picture yesterday of the three Musketeers where he is like D'Artagnan with the leaders of these terrorists.
MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]
Q. General, you actually commanded these formations, these units that cut off Serb heads.
JUDGE MAY: Now, time is very limited. You're plainly not following instructions you've been given. Your cross-examination is limited to what the witness has given in evidence. The behaviour of the KLA is not relevant to that. What you said about the KLA most certainly is relevant. You've asked questions about it and what other things you've said about it, you've said to the general, that is relevant, and you can ask and indeed you should. If you challenge it, you should deal with it, as you did with the general, General Naumann.
THE WITNESS: Your Honour, may I just have -- ask the permission of the Court to clarify that I did not command the KLA. We never gave assistance to the KLA. We did not direct the KLA. We did not assist itsformation. And I met with the leaders of the Kosovar Albanians atRambouillet as part of a normal diplomatic effort in the same way in which I met with Serbs at the discussions at Dayton, that's all. Thank you for allowing me to insert that for the record.
Clark is commiting perjury here.
Looks like perjury to me.
Q. And that first working day, the Muslim delegation proposed that Republika Srpska consist of 30 something per cent, 34, 35 per cent of the territory. Do you recollect that? A. Your Honour, I have no specific recollection of that particular matter. The reason is that I may or may not have been in for the entire duration of the meeting. At the time, I was involved in not only participating in much of what Ambassador Holbrooke was doing but also trying to finish the negotiation of military annex with other NATO member countries who would have to enforce it. So I just don't have any specific recollection of that fact. I would have to consult other sources, but it's not something that I remember. And it's not in my witness statement. I'm not testifying about it or whatever; I just don't remember it."
Compare that with this--
Q.....Why would I stay with you and Kruzel during the break? That is not true simply. JUDGE MAY: Wait. Now, let there be an answer to this allegation. 10 THE WEASEL, ER, WITNESS: Your Honour, there was a break. Ambassador Holbrooke did get up to go to the toilet. I can't account for every single member of the accused's delegation in the room. The accused was seated in a -- in an armchair at the head of the table, and he stayed in the room at least momentarily. And as he got up from the armchair and moved to the side, I went over and approached him. And I was ccompanied by Assistant Secretary Joseph Kruzel. And it was a break that was taken right after the period in which he had announced that he could hold a referendum that would ensure that the Pale Serbs agreed with whatever peace terms were being proposed. And I simply continued the discussion with him and asked him, "You say you've had so much influence on these people. If you had so much influence, how did you permit General Mladic to kill all those people at Srebrenica?" He looked at me and said, "Well, General Clark, I told him not to do it, but he didn't listen to me."
The sooner Clark is relegated to a political footnote, the better, IMHO....
Related Thread:
Milosevic attacked Clark's personal character by citing criticism of him by Gen. Hugh Shelton
"Ten years ago we were arming and equipping the worst elements of the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan"
Who's this "we" he's referring to? If this is a direct quote from him it doesn't make sense. If he said "The U.S." or "The West" or something along those lines (though I wouldn't necessarily agree) I would understand the statement.
I'm familiar with the photos though I would suggest no-one post them since they tend to cause threads to disappear.
He seems to be making a direct mockery of the court by showing these photos while Clark is sitting in the witness chair. I would prefer he make a direct mockery of the witness however. However, I presume there more to this with 2 days worth of testimony, there's more to come.
Thanks.
Oh c'mon Hoplite. You already know I've never been there. I don't even know any Serbs beyond the aliases of the denizens of FR.
I'm simply an Irish Catholic American who wondered at the time why the leftists weren't protesting the bombing of Yugoslavia. I can remember vividly how Clark had been caught in several lies at the time of the bombing in Kosovo. There are threads after threads debunking him in real time here on FR.
I'm no fan of unrepentant communist thugs but that doesn't mean I want this world court to determine what is just.
This is worse than the OJ trial.
Here, with Slobo, it's supposedly staunch Americans and conservatives siding with a murderous thug.
Whatever - these threads are freakshows of the ignorant and disingenuous. Take me off your ping list and pretend you don't know me.
I'll honor your wish to be removed from the ping list but know that I consider your research on Fusion top notch and lends considerable creditability to your opinion.
One can condemn Milosevic and still maintain this 'trial' is a joke. In fact, it's done for Milosevic what Milosevic could never have done for himself - it's made him look like a gutsy underdog. It's the single best argument for letting Saddam be tried by the Iraqis; because it's inconceivable the Iraqis could do a worse job than this kangaroo court.
I can understand an American critic of our policy at the time saying "We armed the Mujahadeen" but not Slobo saying.
Perhaps something was lost in the translation.
If Slick Clinton wasn't the antichrist then, as Fats Waller used to say, he'll have to do until the real thing comes along.
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