'Real and Definite Threat' Caused BA Flight Cancellation

The Scotsman ^ | Jan 02 2004 | By Caroline Gammell, PA News

[Dog]

'Real and Definite Threat' Caused BA Flight Cancellation

By Caroline Gammell, PA News

The cancellation of British Airways flight BA223 from Heathrow to Washington was caused by a “real and definite threat”, a defence expert warned today.

The plane had already started checking in passengers and was due to leave at 3.05pm.

But BA announced it had been cancelled at 1.15pm – less than two hours before take off – for security reasons.

Paul Beaver, a defence analyst, said: “This is certainly unusual. The intelligence is very, very precise which is why this one flight has been cancelled.

“We have got intelligence, I am told, that there was a plan to take the aircraft and destroy it over Washington or fly it into something.

“Washington is the definite target.”

Mr Beaver said the information passed on to BA via the Government was likely to have come from American intelligence.

“All I know is there is a real and definite threat.”

He went on: “There is good and precise intelligence that there is more than one al Qaida or al Qaida-like group operating against the US.

“One is based in central America and the other is based in Europe – in London or Paris.”

Mr Beaver said it was not known whether operatives in these potential terror cells are carrying legal British passports.

Yesterday’s flight BA223 was also cancelled several hours before it was scheduled to depart after BA received “security advice” from the Government.

On New Year’s Eve, the same flight had been kept on the runway for three hours after landing at Washington Dulles International Airport to allow security officials to board the plane and question passengers.

The Boeing 747 was escorted into Dulles by two F-16 fighter jets.

An Aeromexico flight from Mexico City to Los Angeles was also cancelled after US authorities refused to allow it to land.

Flight 490 was cancelled after Homeland Security officials said they were concerned it might be a safety risk, said a spokesman for Mexico’s President Vicente Fox.

[Dog]

This is the article longjack mentioned..

[Dog]

Here is that article longjack found..

[Dog]

fyi..

[Trust but Verify]

Thanks for posting this, Dog. I have a question though. It has been said "the problem is with the flight, not the passengers." What the heck does that mean?

[nwctwx]

I would love to hear some followup on these cancellations. Are we actually catching anyone? I suppose they would not announce the capture of a few if they are after an entire cell, it is disconcerting to hear all these reports with nothing to indicate we are getting anyone.

[Coop]

Okay. I could buy AQ destroying this flight over D.C. airspace, but them attempting to hijack the flight - just honestly can't see it happening. Hijacking a cargo plane, yes, but not another passenger plane.

[nwctwx]

Agreed, I still feel we are going down the wrong path.

[Dog]

Freepmail..

[Coop]

It has been said "the problem is with the flight, not the passengers." What the heck does that mean?

I took it to mean the flight number itself remains the same from day to day, whereas the passengers change. So they probably have a detailed threat on this particular flight, but not sure on which day. Just MHO.

[nwctwx]

I'd guess they intercepted flight numbers during intelligence gathering.

[nicmarlo]

Ping and BTTT

[Cap Huff]

My guess is that the no-shows for the Air France flights over Christmas hopped a ferry to England for a second try. Or maybe the Air France was a diversion.

[Flyer]

“One is based in central America and the other is based in Europe – in London or Paris.”

Not the most comforting information of the day.

[Dog]

That would make sense...we know this flight will be the plane used ....but the attack could come on any given day...

[Alas Babylon!]

Exactly. Supposed some cell phone they're monitoring (or even an informant--we should be so lucky!) mentioned the flight number. Noiw if they can just roll up the terrorists, and if this means being mum for now on the what and why about these flights, then we should all be proud & grateful.

[Coop]

I just hope and pray the authorities are not only able to prevent this attack but also nab some or all of the scumbags involved.

[Dog Gone]

That's my thought, too.

[Dog]

If they will not allow this Flight 223 to depart.....than .......the cell is here.

[Seeking the truth]

“One is based in central America and the other is based in Europe – in London or Paris.”

Central America = Mexico ??????

[Azzurri]

Okay. I could buy AQ destroying this flight over D.C. airspace, but them attempting to hijack the flight - just honestly can't see it happening. Hijacking a cargo plane, yes, but not another passenger plane.

Yes, something very puzzling about talk of hijacking or "taking over the plane". The passengers are not going to sit down and allow that to happen. There's something else going on, perhaps it really is the pilots of these aircraft who have been compromised.

[Dog]

Latin America....more likely from the tri-border region...a real hotbed for the jihadists there.

[Chad Fairbanks]

He went on: “There is good and precise intelligence that there is more than one al Qaida or al Qaida-like group operating against the US.

No s**t, sherlock? Really? Wow!

“One is based in central America...

MECHA?

...and the other is based in Europe – in London or Paris.”

France?

;0)

[maquiladora]

Paul Beaver works for (or at least used to) Janes' and is very reliable and has great contants. Sounds serious indeed.

[Iowa Granny]

If there was a passenger who they considered to be a threat, I would think they'd load the entire plane and not announce a cancelation until they'd nabbed the perp.

So the thought on the specific flight number makes sense.

[Coop]

If they will not allow this Flight 223 to depart.....than .......the cell is here.

Maybe, maybe not. On 9/11 the Dulles hijackers came out of VA, IIRC, but the NJ ones boarded in Boston. Could be a connecting flight or simply be precautions on both sides of the Pond.

[Dog]

Tri-border region..

[abner]

What would stop the terrorists from just changing planes?

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

MY guess is an Al Quada ( or OBL ) tape bragging that they downed this exact flight was intercepted before it happened. The terrorists jumped the gun.

[longjack]

Cross Reference....Translated Article

[Dog]

Thanks longjack.

[Neets]

I wonder if the focus of 223 flight number could have been 223 as in Feb 23 ?

[pgkdan]

Okay. I could buy AQ destroying this flight over D.C. airspace, but them attempting to hijack the flight - just honestly can't see it happening.

I don't see it either, unless they've got a sympathetic crew member...that's a nightmare. Not all islamic crazies have arabic sounding names...re: Richard Reid.

[nicmarlo]

That's what I've beening thinking, myself.

[nwctwx]

What would stop them from making it up completely? I think we have fixated on the passenger plane issue a little too much.

[Blood of Tyrants]

You would think that the smarter plan would have been to wait until the plane was fully boarded and then you would be able to catch the perps. As it was, all they had to do was show up and see that the flight was cancelled and turn around and leave.

[nicmarlo]

or could be 22nd of March

[Rutles4Ever]

Something is clearly up. The problem is, I don't see a scenario involving a takeover of the cockpit unless a bunch would-be terrorists start killing passengers wholesale (esp. children, perish the thought) and provoke the crew to leave the cockpit (still unlikely, even in the most horrific scenarios).

So where does that leave us? Time bomb? Remote controlled bomb that can be triggered on approach by someone on the ground near Dulles? SAMs? Shoe bomb? None of these jive with the fear of a plane crashing into a monument or government building. This solely implies a pilot at the controls knowingly targeting something on the ground. For the reasons above, I don't see how it could happen. Even if an "al qaeda" pilot would be legitimately at the controls, I would have to bet that the FBI is scouring BA's flight crew rosters for any possible ringers.

All this adds up to confusion, but one thing is for sure -- something has the feds seriously spooked. I would have to imagine that the volume of threats being picked up from "credible" sources is coming together to form a picture of patience, calculation and thoroughness.

[Neets]

Yes, I have been thinking this since yesterday...they do have something about those double digits it seems.

[Coop]

I don't see it either, unless they've got a sympathetic crew member...that's a nightmare. Not all islamic crazies have arabic sounding names...re: Richard Reid.

Yeah, that's a definite worry, although I wouldn't define that as a hijacking. But the results would be just as deadly.

[nicmarlo]

Remote controlled

That's what I'm thinking.....why else would the spiegel article say the problem wasn't with the passengers, but, rather, the PLANE.

[nicmarlo]

yep...numbers and symbols

[Dog]

What if the time bomb is the pilot?

[Mo1]

Okay. I could buy AQ destroying this flight over D.C. airspace, but them attempting to hijack the flight - just honestly can't see it happening. Hijacking a cargo plane, yes, but not another passenger plane.

They went after the WTC twice .. and if they think they could pull it off, they'll try anything

[Apple_Hills]

Or maybe trained sleeper pilots?

[sistergoldenhair]

What if the time bomb is the pilot?

Could be the ultimate "dirty bomb". An exploding plane would spread debris for miles.

[mhking]

Is the problem in question with the actual aircraft itself, or with the passengers/crew involved?

[Coop]

They went after the WTC twice .. and if they think they could pull it off, they'll try anything

They did it twice, with different methods. I have no reason to believe Al Qaeda would foolishly think that its members could pull off another 9/11 style hijacking. The passengers would slaughter them, the pilots would do barrel rolls in the aircraft before the door was breached, etc. But a bomb, missile, hijacked cargo plane or suicidal passenger plane pilot, those scenarios I could see [perish the thought!!] playing out.

[Mo1]

I wonder if the focus of 223 flight number could have been 223 as in Feb 23 ?

Didn't the last tape from Bin Laden's #2 guy mention something about Feb??

[waxhaw]

Central and South America will be the most vulnerable link in the security chain regarding air highjacking. I've lived 22 years in Latin America and bribery will get one whatever one requires. At this time of the year airport security personnel will be short-staffed, hungover or drunk; their pockets will be empty due to the Christmas and New Year's indulgences and many will be resentful because the gringos are requesting them to do more at the time of year when they traditionally do less.

[debg]

Another BA flight from London is enroute to Dulles now (Flt 217). It's scheduled to arrive at 3:47 pm (east coast time). It will be interesting to hear if the passengers are allowed to disembark normally or if they will also go thru a reverse screening process.