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Dean Narrowing Separation of Church and Stump; Invokes Muslim Phrases; Claims Biblical Knowledge
New York Times ^ | January 4, 2004 | JODI WILGOREN

Posted on 01/03/2004 6:23:24 PM PST by nwrep

STORM LAKE, Iowa, Jan. 3 — Little by little, the Lord is seeping into Howard Dean's presidential campaign.

In South Carolina the other day, an invocation preceded the political speeches, and David Mack, a state legislator, closed the rally with "God bless you and keep you." In Iowa last weekend, Dr. Dean referred to the New Testament. On Friday in New Hampshire, he invoked a Muslim phrase, "inshallah," God willing, to make a point about Americans believing they control their destiny.

"I'm still learning a lot about faith and the South and how important it is," Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, said as he flew here, 150 miles northwest of Des Moines, Friday night on his chartered jet, predicting he would mention God more and more in the coming weeks. "It doesn't make me more religious or less religious than I was before, but it means that I'm willing to talk about it in different ways."

Dr. Dean recently told an audience in Iowa that he prayed daily. On the plane he declined to detail his prayer ritual but described how a 2002 trip to Israel deepened his understanding of the connections between Judaism and Christianity. He named Job as his favorite New Testament book, then later corrected himself, noting that it is in the Old Testament.

"I'm a New Englander, so I'm not used to wearing religion on my sleeve and being as open about it," he said. "I'm gradually getting more comfortable with talking about religion in ways that I did not talk about it before."

The changes come amid concern from several corners about the stridently secular tone of his campaign so far. In contrast to his Democratic opponents, who frequently discuss their faith in public, not to mention the born-again incumbent, President Bush, Dr. Dean said plainly in an interview a couple of months back: "I don't think that religion ought to be part of American policy."

A cover story in The New Republic last month, headlined "Howard Dean's religion problem," called him "one of the most secular candidates to run for president in modern history," and suggested this would "mark him as culturally alien to much of the country." A rash of columns followed with similar warnings, and voters have begun to inquire about the issue at town hall meetings.

"I'm pretty religious," he responded the other day in Waterloo, Iowa. "I pray every day, but I'm from New England, so I just keep it to myself.

"Don't you think Jerry Falwell reminds you a lot more of the Pharisees than he does of the teachings of Jesus?" he added. "And don't you think this campaign ought to be about evicting the money-changers from the temple?"

Dr. Dean grew up spending Sundays in an Episcopal church, and attended religious boarding school, but became a Congregationalist after the Episcopal church he belonged to in Burlington, Vt., refused to yield land for a bike path around Lake Champlain that he championed. His wife is Jewish and their children observe both traditions, though the family stopped attending services years ago after scolding sermons about once-a-year attendees.

The campaign has brought Dr. Dean back to the pews, clapping along with hymns in African-American churches from Harlem to San Francisco. At a Hanukkah party for his staff last month in Manchester, N.H., Dr. Dean proudly chanted the blessing over the candles in well-accented Hebrew and then repeated it for an Israeli television crew.

During the interview Friday night, Dr. Dean said he was moved during a tour of the Old City in Jerusalem when his guide pointed out half a house next to a stone wall that King Hezekiah had ordered built to defend against invaders. In a neighboring house, "you can sit on the third floor and you can pray, and you look out the window and you look down at the wall and the house and understand that 3,000 years ago people prayed the same prayers in the same language," Dr. Dean said. "Now that's an extraordinary thing that happens when you go to Israel."

Touring with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, Dr. Dean also visited Galilee, where Jesus preached the Sermon on the Mount. "If you know much about the Bible — which I do — to see and be in a place where Christ was and understand the intimate history of what was going on 2,000 years ago is an exceptional experience," he said.

Asked his favorite New Testament book, Dr. Dean named Job, adding: "But I don't like the way it ends." "Some would argue, you know, in some of the books of the New Testament, the ending of the Book of Job is different," he said. "I think, if I'm not mistaken, there's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later."

Job, the Old Testament story of a righteous man who suffers hardships as a test of his faith, ends with the Lord restoring his fortunes and the protagonist living to be "an old man, and full of days." Some scholars have posited that the original ending may have been more dour.

An hour after his comments, Dr. Dean returned to the clutch of reporters, saying he realized he had misspoken because Job is not in the New Testament.

"Many people believe that the original version of Job is the version where there is not a change, Job ends up completely destitute and ruined," he said. "It's been a long time since I looked at this, but it's believed that was added much, much later. Many people believe that the original ending was about the power of God and the power of God was almighty and all knowing and it wasn't necessary that everybody was going to be redeemed."

Asked again about his favorite part of the New Testament, Dr. Dean said, "Anything in the Gospels."

His press secretary, Doug Thornell, telephoned late Friday night to say that Dr. Dean did not mean to imply he was some kind of expert.

"He obviously has read the Bible and knows the passages fairly well," Mr. Thornell said, "but just in terms of having a theologian's knowledge of the Bible, he doesn't want to pass on the impression that he does."


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: 2004; britain; christianlist; dean; deanschristianity; electionpresident; howarddean; talk
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To: freebilly
Isn't that the Book of Plude where St Paul, Frodo, and Ted Kennedy rescue Mary Jo Kopechne from the waters of the Chappaquiddick?

ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!!! <><

121 posted on 01/03/2004 8:29:42 PM PST by viaveritasvita ("When Love takes you in, everything changes.")
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To: SC Swamp Fox
regardless of the SC DIMocRATS primary results, dean has about the same chance as i do of being POTUS!

free the southland,sw

122 posted on 01/03/2004 8:34:59 PM PST by stand watie (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. ,T. Jefferson)
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To: pax_et_bonum
I wonder if he prayed every day when he was a doctor with Planned Parenthood.

When exactly should this tack be deployed..? September/October? This is his nail, of course...

123 posted on 01/03/2004 8:37:26 PM PST by txhurl
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To: nwrep
**He named Job as his favorite New Testament book,**

LOL!

How about Job is a prohphet from the Old Testament?

Another Dean gaafe.
124 posted on 01/03/2004 8:45:05 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: SC Swamp Fox
ROTFLOL Church and stump...is that some kid of underhanded slam against President Bush? New York Times, right?
125 posted on 01/03/2004 8:48:05 PM PST by Libertina (If it moves, tax it. If it doesn't move it's a sitting duck - tax it TWICE!)
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To: Krodg
Yep...Jesus didn't come to redeem believers, He came to leave them destitute and ruined.

And that is how President Dean will leave us!

126 posted on 01/03/2004 8:49:28 PM PST by Mr Rogers
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To: nwrep
After reading this, I am going to do my very best not to gag. It will be tough though...........
127 posted on 01/03/2004 8:50:43 PM PST by SeaDragon
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To: RJayneJ
re: 106

That would be Lot, from the Book of Genesis (nephew of Abraham). Sad story of an evidently saved man (inferred from Chapter 11 of Hebrews) who didn't keep His eye on the mark (God - and the Lord through the promise of Salvation), and even though it 'vexed' him he joined himself to the depraved world. As a result, he lost his wife (she of the pillar of salt fame), and his two daughters were apparently lost to sin by their desires to have children - at 'any' cost.

128 posted on 01/03/2004 8:54:06 PM PST by El Cid
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To: Between the Lines
re: #62

Dean is from a Congregationalist background, a liberal denomination that does not believe in ministerial authority or church hierarchy. Each Congregationalist believes he is in direct contact with God and is entitled to sort out truth for himself.

I have no problem with the Dean bashing (particularly in light of the comments posted on this article), nor do I doubt that he belongs to a liberal "church". Nonetheless, you should be a bit less generous with the 'broad-brush'.
Congregationalists, along with Presbyterians and Episcopelians (of a former - more conservative time) were the predominant denominations of the God fearing men and women that founded this country. There is nothing that equates Congregationalists with liberalism. In fact I'd argue you'll find less faithfulness to the Bible amongst the larger, more centralized denominations, than you will amongst the smaller independents.
Regarding church 'hierarchy' - there is much in the Bible regarding the authority within an individual church (set through elders and deacons), but beyond the setting within an individual church - the rest is largely man-made (there is one passage in Acts regarding the controversy of circumcism that was brought to Jerusalem to be presented to the Apostles, with James as their leader, for discussion --- but its a stretch to build this as a case to justify an intra-church hierarchy).
And finally with respect to your comment that: "Each Congregationalist believes he is in direct contact with God and is entitled to sort out truth for himself". I would hope that all believers have, and cherish, a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - God the Son - our Lord, High Priest, and Saviour...And don't rely on another as their mediator.

129 posted on 01/03/2004 9:14:38 PM PST by El Cid
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To: Howlin
So amazed that I hardly know where to start...

There are certain pieces of biblical information that are so basic, so fundamental to a person of faith that they cannot be "misspoken". Job's standing as an Old Testament figure is one of them.

A few weeks ago, this supposed political science expert referred to Russia as the Soviet Union.

We have the "you show us your records and I'll show you mine" challenge to GW. Did he not know GW's records had already been unsealed?

Remember that Dean has promised to teach GW a thing or two about defense. I sure wish he had elaborated on that one.

This man does not know all that he thinks he knows. After how many gaffes do we get to declare the man simply stupid?

130 posted on 01/03/2004 9:21:24 PM PST by gov_bean_ counter
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To: gov_bean_ counter
After how many gaffes do we get to declare the man simply stupid?

We already have, because we know the truth. The media gives Dean a pass the way they gave Gore a pass.

131 posted on 01/03/2004 9:32:15 PM PST by freebilly
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To: nwrep
And I thought I was speechless before...
132 posted on 01/03/2004 9:38:09 PM PST by Jaded (Personally, I think they should bring back flogging and burning at the stake. /so)
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To: Happy2BMe
Please get those into production...I want one!
133 posted on 01/03/2004 10:09:41 PM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: mhking
Bump! This is just way toooo much fun!
134 posted on 01/03/2004 10:19:36 PM PST by lainde (Heads up...We're coming and we've got tongue blades!!)
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To: RJayneJ; freebilly; Dr. Zoo
Actually I don't think that was Lot.

Lot did offer his daughters to the Sodomites that wanted to ravish the Angels that they thought were men.

Now this feller Judah (Genesis 38) was going about his business to shear his sheep when he came upon a "harlot"

But actually she was his widowed daughter-in-law who was playing a trick on Judah, covered up so he wouldn't recognize her. (Probably wearing a Burka)

And you can fill in the blanks from there, but she did have twins 9 months later.

Now if Onan wouldn't have copped out all would have been fine.

As it was it caused a big stir back then just as it would if something like that happened now.

RJayneJ I don't think it was Jeremiah, he just went around crying a lot...had Lots of Lamentations to wallow in...

135 posted on 01/03/2004 10:31:32 PM PST by Syncro (I may have embellished a bit...Dr. Zoo, feel free to correct me of I did....)
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GO HOWARD, GO! KEEP TALKING!!! DON'T LISTEN TO YOUR ADVISORS!!

PLEASE DEMOCRATS, NOMINATE HOWARD THE PIOUS!!
136 posted on 01/03/2004 10:50:45 PM PST by GeorgiaYankee (American Leftists, the Kissing Cousins of the Baath Party!)
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To: nwrep
"Yea, though I bike thru the paths of ecological wastelands,...I will fear no Halliburtons...because thine is the Party, the Power over the People, and the Socialist Glory...as it is written in thy little Red Book."
137 posted on 01/03/2004 11:05:12 PM PST by ctonious
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To: T Lady
Who caught it from watching late-night reruns of the TV Movie, 'Sybill,' which starred Sally Field.

Who starred in Steel Magnolias with Julia Roberts, who starred in Flatliners with......Kevin Bacon.

Hmmmmmm....only 4 degrees to Kevin Bacon! lol Sorry, just what first came to mind.

138 posted on 01/03/2004 11:36:25 PM PST by kimmie7 (Pee in a troll's Cheerios......chuck a chunk of change to FR today!)
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Of course, it is possible that the reporter was Jewish, so would have no reason, absent a true liberal-arts education, to know anything of the New Testament.

But being Jewish, should know the OT quite well...

139 posted on 01/03/2004 11:38:28 PM PST by kimmie7 (Pee in a troll's Cheerios......chuck a chunk of change to FR today!)
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To: Lonesome in Massachussets
Can't wait till he starts speakin' in tongues and chuckin' snakes

ROTFL!!

140 posted on 01/04/2004 12:13:54 AM PST by SuziQ
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