Senate majority leader confident immigration reform will be approved

AP ^ | January 7, 2004

[PISANO]

Frist should be as sure about the confirmation of judges....in any case this is bad news. Tom DeLay is going to have a lot of pressure on him. I hope he can maintain.

[Dog Gone]

I want to stop illegal immigration. Yet, I'd be stupid if I thought we have a ready labor force just itching to take the menial jobs that Mexicans are doing. It's not so, but feel free to convince me otherwise.

Market forces prove the fact that Mexican labor is needed. Otherwise it wouldn't occur.

What we need to do is to control it. Make sure it's not displacing Americans. Remove the incentives to hire illegals.

Why is that bad?

[kentuckyusa]

Don't know about sam, but I do know I would vote for Zell Miller in a heart beat.

Strike one, signed the no child left behind act.

Strike two, signed the zillion dollar drugs for old folks scam.

Strike three, Calls my great great grandaddy and idiot for coming to this country by playing by the rules.

The thing that saves Bush in my mind is the ban on partial birth abortion and tax cuts.

But, if a true conservative like Zell ran agasint him i would cross party lines so fast your head would spin.

[caltrop]

These clowns continue to make a strong case for divided government. I'm not sitting this election out, I'll be voting for Dean. It'll be the first time I've ever voted for a Democrat for President. If Dean's elected, I'll be happy to see Tom Delay setting the Republican Party agenda and President Dean finding everything he'd like to initiate dead on arrival at the House. Pity the House couldn't/wouldn't tell Bush no.

[GeronL]

do you prefer rust, plywood or tarp for your roof??

[judgeandjury]

There was an anger directed at immigrants in many of today's posts on the subject that is second only to the anger I've seen Freepers direct at criminals awaiting execution.

Don't you mean "illegal aliens"? Or are you just being PC with us?

[KantianBurke]

I'm more of an "interior of an abandoned car" fellow myself. Will be on the lookout for any that have a "Viva Bush" bumper sticker still attached.

[deport]

Here's another take on the entire proposal by thoughtomator ..... Hope you don't mind my posting it again thoughtomator. If so let me know and I'll have it pulled.

After reading the speech, I have come to the conclusion that Bush's proposed immigration reform is another brilliant masterstroke of strategery. Every interest gets something:

1) foreign nationals get:
(a) to stay for a reasonable amount of time, on reasonable terms;
(b) a way to keep their Social Security investment;
(c) some financial security for their work investment; and
(d) to live inside the law

2) US citizens concerned about the erosion of their citizenship are guaranteed two important points:
(a) the visas are temporary;
(b) border security (although we may very well get stiffed on this one, if history is any guide);
(c) a strong financial incentive for aliens to go home after they are done working in the US; and
(d) a major decrease in the level of lawlessness

3) US employers get:
(a) off the hook for breaking the law; and
(b) a way to maintain their workers

4) Politicians, especially the GOP, get to have an actual accomplishment to point to with regards to the immigration problem. It also is insurance just in case we get another 9/11 from people being smuggled through the southern border.

In conclusion, this is another piece of brilliant Bush strategery (which I have not yet decided I like, but nevertheless recognize that) that cuts a broad middle ground between the combatants in the political sphere. I am reminded much of the attempt to get UN support for the war in Iraq - it offers a deal that, while not perfect, it would be good faith to offer, and unreasonable to refuse. (On the other hand, it also gives nobody everything they want.)

I don't see how anybody in the legislature can oppose this. The Democrats might oppose it solely on the ground that it would be a Bush accomplishment and helps him in the 2004 election - that's not beyond the depths they have long since plumbed - but they could not win.

I really don't see how conservatives could oppose it, either. If you do want to get rid of as many aliens as possible, as soon as possible, this is the best thing you have seen yet. How many aliens would we have leave, otherwise, by the end of three years? The policy is very discriminatory against indigents as well, which any conservative has to agree with.(Agreed, we may have an issue with temporary workers coming for the purpose of having US citizen children here being protected by the Constitution.)

posted on 01/07/2004 5:42:38 PM CST by thoughtomator ("I will do whatever the Americans want because I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"-Qadafi)

After reading the speech, I have come to the conclusion that Bush's proposed immigration reform is another brilliant masterstroke of strategery. Every interest gets something:

1) foreign nationals get:
(a) to stay for a reasonable amount of time, on reasonable terms;
(b) a way to keep their Social Security investment;
(c) some financial security for their work investment; and
(d) to live inside the law

2) US citizens concerned about the erosion of their citizenship are guaranteed two important points:
(a) the visas are temporary;
(b) border security (although we may very well get stiffed on this one, if history is any guide);
(c) a strong financial incentive for aliens to go home after they are done working in the US; and
(d) a major decrease in the level of lawlessness

3) US employers get:
(a) off the hook for breaking the law; and
(b) a way to maintain their workers

4) Politicians, especially the GOP, get to have an actual accomplishment to point to with regards to the immigration problem. It also is insurance just in case we get another 9/11 from people being smuggled through the southern border.

In conclusion, this is another piece of brilliant Bush strategery (which I have not yet decided I like, but nevertheless recognize that) that cuts a broad middle ground between the combatants in the political sphere. I am reminded much of the attempt to get UN support for the war in Iraq - it offers a deal that, while not perfect, it would be good faith to offer, and unreasonable to refuse. (On the other hand, it also gives nobody everything they want.)

I don't see how anybody in the legislature can oppose this. The Democrats might oppose it solely on the ground that it would be a Bush accomplishment and helps him in the 2004 election - that's not beyond the depths they have long since plumbed - but they could not win.

I really don't see how conservatives could oppose it, either. If you do want to get rid of as many aliens as possible, as soon as possible, this is the best thing you have seen yet. How many aliens would we have leave, otherwise, by the end of three years? The policy is very discriminatory against indigents as well, which any conservative has to agree with.(Agreed, we may have an issue with temporary workers coming for the purpose of having US citizen children here being protected by the Constitution.)

[Paul C. Jesup]

"Why am I confident?" Frist said. "Because it is a security issue." ..Well I am confidentin one thing~they have all lost their minds.....

I am in complete agreement with you.

[BobS]

"I find myself wondering if Bush and company are using "strategery" here."

Sure he is! All the Mexies move up here so we can retire down there on the coast. Easy!

[rintense]

I beg to differ. This will never make it out of the House. And maybe that's where the silver lining is.

Folks, after looking at the reactions to this proposal, I'm wondering if it isn't simply another case of strategery. Propose something so sweeping that even members of your own party hate it??? And people on the other side of the isle don't like it either??? Looks like, in the end, Bush can say, 'hey, I gave 'em a proposal and they failed the American people' when in fact, the point WAS to fail. Bush can say, 'I tried.' And his sweeping immigration reform in its current state is swept under the rug.

It also opens up a lot of room for a first time veto. If Bush doesn't get what he wants, would he veto it? We've wondered about this before, especially with CFR and Medicare. Perhaps this will be the moment the bucks do stops here- right on the President's desk- to the delight of Americans- voting Americans, mind you, and to the dismay of Democrats.

Of course, I could have had too much kool-aid.

[KantianBurke]

[dwilli]

Put aside the abortion issue and cite the conservative strong points of each.

[Who dat?]

So you are admitting, that in the votes that mattered the most, you did nothing to advance conservatism.

Yes, I guess. I am telling you that GWB/GHWB/Dole are not candidates that I will support.

End of story.

Seriously.

I will sit on my ass and watch Seinfield and drink beer unless you give me a reason to vote for you (GWB).

I have no reason to vote for you (GWB) now.

I *had* no reason, but held my nose and took a chance. I got what I deserved.

I learned something - again. So will you (GWB), IMO. People think it's something to fight over. It isn't. Just watch the results

GWB needs *every vote* he got last time and *more*.

He does *not* have them as of *now*.

The rest isn't worth arguing about... IMO.

Let's just sit back and watch. I'm willing...

[Paul C. Jesup]

Forget the blue pill. Give me the red pill, I want to wake-up from this nightmare.

[DumpsterDiver]

Have you seen anything from Tom DeLay on this, or know his position?

Try here:

Bush immigration "principles" mirror Cornyn bill (Tom Delay Has "Severe Reservations" About Plan)

[azcap]

Amnesty, guestworkers, temporary Visas - It doesn't really matter what or how you do it as long as you commit to sealing the border. On principal I'd like to see all illegals rounded up and deported tomorrow but practically thinking that can't happen and would cause economic problems. No matter what we do with the current illegals if we do not seal the border and deport all future illegals we are fools. It's like taking out a 2nd mortgage to pay off your credit cards but not tearing up the cards. In 5 years you're broke again. All of the proposals, the ones in Congress, and the Presidents make reference to increasing border security but none of them are clear and specific about what that means. None of them will be specific either. No one except Tancredo and company have the guts to solve illegal immigration in the same way we solve illegal shoplifting, illegal rape, and other CRIMES. Unless the President makes it clear and specific that he is closing the border to protect the American economy and keep the homeland secure he is committing political suicide. The GOP has nothing to gain. We win no votes by trying to out left the leftist. They will always win that contest. This issue could be the one that destroys the GOP majority. If Bush is smart he will let the house kill this and never mention again, unless he wants to be honest and tough about the real solution.

[Dog Gone]

That's a really good post.

I just don't see how getting a handle on who is here, and getting them part of the system is a setback.

The main question I have is whether we'll really have the guts to enforce it.

[thoughtomator]

the point of typing it out was for discussion... of course you can reproduce at will

[antidisestablishment]

Anybody want to STOP illegal immigration? Easy as pie...

Strict mandatory prison sentences for employers of illegals.