Domestic Issues Hurt Bush in Poll

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A29858-2004Jan19?language=printer ^

[AmishDude]

The poster changed the title. However, the original title is worse.

[DustyMoment]

"How would you deport 8-10 million people when you don't even know who they are?"

Interesting point. I find it ironic that our government claims to know the whereabouts of Bin Laden who is umpteen thousand miles away from America, and routinely claimed to know where Hussein was hiding out months before they actually found him and, yet, we don't know who many of the 8 - 10 million illegals in our own country are.

Is this supposed to give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about the efforts of the crack Dept. of Homeland Security to make me feel safe here in our own country?

It doesn't.

[Conspiracy Guy]

No comparison to illegal immigrants and Osama.

How do you propose we handle it? I'm serious. Even if we do know who most of them are and where they are, how do you round em up and send them home?

CG

[DustyMoment]

In a letter that I sent to Bush prior to his meeting with Vicente Fox, I listed several things that I wanted to see come out of the meeting. Among those things was agreement by Fox to more aggressively patrol his side of the border and to stop encouraging illegals to come to the US. I also told the President that I would like to see a joint US-Mexican task force that would infiltrate the Hispanic communities in the US, locate, arrest and deport the illegals they encountered.

I don't hate immigrants and always welcome the LEGAL ones who come here to become part of the American Dream; whatever that means for them. I also have many Hispanic friends whose friendship and company I enjoy. But, the US, like other nations, has laws that cover immigration and Bush, Tom Ridge and the millions of illegals here are violating the crap out them by ignoring them. Those laws, like our borders, exist for a reason.

If violating our laws is good for one segment of our society (such as illegal immigrants), then violating our laws should yield spactacular results if we ALL do it. Either we have and respect our laws, or we don't. W is playing both sides of the field on this and it's not working too well for him.

[The_Eaglet]

If violating our laws is good for one segment of our society (such as illegal immigrants), then violating our laws should yield spactacular results if we ALL do it. Either we have and respect our laws, or we don't. W is playing both sides of the field on this and it's not working too well for him.

I agree.

[Joe Hadenuf]

Mr. President, stop this socialist fiscal spending and this open border madness. Your domestic policies are scary. Your throwing high voltage lines into a sea of chaos.

Mr. President, did you forget what happened to Gray Davis?

[Conspiracy Guy]

If it was day one of the problem it would be easy to do as you and I would like to do. The problem started years ago and I see this as a first step to solving it without even more huge spending.

CG

[oceanview]

you don't round them up per say. How about this plan:

- significantly increase the number of green cards available.
- send Bush into the latino communities to talk about family reunification, tied to the increasing the number of legal immigrants.
- send out the message to the illegals: go home and get in line to come legally, the increased legal immigrants will be competing against you for the illegal jobs you have, we will increase employer sanctions against hiring illegals, Homeland Security will be doing a better job at the border. The bottom line: we will make it easier for you to come here legally, and harder for you to stay here illegally. In the end, they deport themselves.

That should have been Bush's immigration plan, he and Rove blew it big time.

[Conspiracy Guy]

If we were talkin a few I'd agree. But the estimates are huge.

Not an easy solution. Easy to talk about. I'm willing to see how this goes if it goes.

CG

[DustyMoment]

A valid point. However, let's look at every endeavor that we, as a nation, have undertaken. If we had considered the cost first, we would never have sent a man to the moon, or gotten involved in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, the Cold War and the War on Terrorism. Sometimes, you just have to damn the torpedoes and go full speed ahead.

Granted, we are many, many days late and several dollars short on controlling/stopping illegal immigration. I would ask you this question: Consult your crystal ball and tell me when it will get cheaper to implement a solution - ANY solution to illegal immigration?

None of us knows, but if we continue to wait, the problem is not going to resolve itself. We have to start sometime, and now is as good a time as any at controlling our own borders and our own destiny as a nation.

Bush and Ridge are incredibly weak on this issue and are not likely to take any real effort to control either our northern or southern borders. Fox is calling the shots on the southern borders and, like most Mexicans, doesn't even acknowledge the sovereign border that separates our two nations. As long as Mexicans still believe that the southwestern United States still belongs to Mexico (and Fox will not lift a finger to dissuade them of that notion), and Bush refuses to enforce our borders, this situation will only continue to get worse.

So, take your pick. You can delay taking action while you fret over costs and begin to learn Spanish so you can avoid the rush when Spanish becomes the national language of the US. Or, you can damn the torpedoes and just go full speed ahead.

[Aetius]

I don't pretend to know how to go about deporting all illegals. I do however object to the oft-repeated line that its just impossible. Eisenhower was able to successfully deport about one million illegals in the 1950s, so mass deportation is possible. Maybe you can't get them all, but you can get a significant portion of them.

As to it making it easier to ferret out bad illegals; that may be true to an extent, but if there is a large ethnic population, be it legal or illegal, it will be easy for criminals to hide amongst them, though this may be more of an issue with middle-eastern enclaves.

I would disagree that this plan is 'very good.' It is deceptive in that Bush claims it is not an amnesty, yet it allows for illegals to one day become citizens. That is amnesty. The alleged incentives for the guest to go home will not match the incentives to stay. Why would they want to return to their failed homeland? Add that to the fact they will be able to bring their families along (afterall 'family values don't stop at the Rio Grande') and they will be entrenched here.

Related to this, and one of the greatest failings of this so-called reform, is its complete failure to even try to address the phenomenon of anchor babies. As with illegals now, these guests (i.e. permanent residents and future Democrats) will have children who get automatic citizenship. This is something never envisioned by the framers of the 14th Amendment. It was never the intent. If that were removed (difficult-yes, impossible-no) then you'd remove one powerful incentive for illegal immigration.

I wish that Bush and the Arizona Republicans who have a similar bill pending would just be honest about what their bill will actually do. If they were, then it would be called; 'Legislation to Grant Eventual Amnesty to most Illegals while Massively Increasing already Mass Levels of Legal Immigration.' I'd still oppose it, but at least one could respect their honesty.

Oceanview: You hit on the solution favored by the Democratic party, the ethnic interest groups, immigration lawyers, and the Wall Street Journal wing of the Republican party. The Dems would love more immigration because they know it will favor them politically. The evidence that Hispanics naturally prefer Democrats is too strong to ignore. Ethnic interest groups will become even more powerful as their constituency grows. And of course those in business whose only concern is cheap labor would love any increase in immigration.

The majority of Americans, however, as evidenced by most polls want a reduction in legal immigration and serious attempts to stop illegal immigration. They don't want illegals rewarded with amnesty and citizenship, or drivers' licenses or in-state tuition.

[Aetius]

And another thing: The best way to end massive chain migration is to limit familiy reunification to spouses (i.e. female wives of men, and male husbands of women), dependent minor children, and possibly parents.

[MegaSilver]

I used to think that articles like this (especially coming from the Washington Post) reflect an inherent liberal bias in the media, but I've changed my mind in the last few weeks.

I think the bias is not so much toward liberalism in general, but to the Democratic Party in particular.

[onyx]

Excellent post. Your comments hit the bull's-eye.

"Nice seeing you," Chris!

[Conspiracy Guy]

Do you not think getting most to ID themselves is a good first step?

This isn't WWII, most of them aren't wearing uniforms or even fighting. They are among the population.

If the illegals were all paited green, I'd say let's round them up and ship them home.

It is a huge problem and initially I thought Bush had been smoking something. Now I'm not so sure that this is not a bad plan.

CG

[Conspiracy Guy]

I guess we will just have to disagree on it.

Initially I felt as you do. But ID, limit time, chase down the non-ID ones, tighten up on more, and go from there works as good as anything I can come up with.

It may not be the only action but at least it is action.

CG

[oceanview]

I would trade 1 million illegals for 200,000 legal immigrants from the same countries. As Hispanics rise up the economic ladder, we can appeal to them politically. Its better to run with that, then have a permanent Hispanic underclass that resents republicans, and which will certainly be near 100% Dem.

[Sabertooth]

How do you propose we handle it? I'm serious. Even if we do know who most of them are and where they are, how do you round em up and send them home?

The solution, in large part, is self-deportation of Illegal Aliens.

They Will Deport Themselves

There are plenty of steps we can take to do this.

Eighteen Illegal Alien solutions that are better than any Amnesty

Not only is encouragement of Illegal Alien self-deportation humane and cost effective, there has already been considerable success in this regard with Pakistani Illegals.

25% of Pakistani Illegal Aliens Deported Themselves since 2001 -
Facts against the Bush Amnesty

It's a mistake to believe that President Bush's "not an Amnesty" Amnesty is the "only solution," when it's not a solution at all.

The false dilemma behind the Bush Amnesty

[Conspiracy Guy]

I'll read tomorrow.

[DustyMoment]

"Now I'm not so sure that this is not a bad plan."

In the ten years following Reagan's amnesty, the newly legalized Americans accounted for nearly $79 Billion additional dollars of drain on social, healthcare and safety net programs. This, from people who have "low paying jobs Americans won't take", thus they DO NOT PAY for any of these services because they fall below the minimum wage for paying any taxes. In fact, they probably earn "tax credits" that are redistributed income taken from you and I.

Multiply $79 Billion by a factor of at least 4 and tell me what a great plan this is. Here's what Bush is proposing:
Somebody opened the gate to a corral containing a herd of prize thoroughbreds and let them out. Bush just wants to get more thoroughbreds and put them in the same corral without bothering to secure the damn gate. Does this make sense? We can find these people if we want to, we have the resources to do it. Politically, there just isn't any will to round these folks up and send'em home where they belong. That's not a good plan to me.