Dead UK expert believed Iraq WMD posed threat

Reuters ^ | 1/21/04

[JohnGalt]

References to 'tinfoil' is done playfully but if that is how you feel, so be it.

[Peach]

Oh, you've only playfully been calling me those names. Okay. Well I'll be much more playful when I refer to the conspiracy theories that you seem to believe in. Deal.

[Darksheare]

Remember, he screams when someone supposedly misquotes, yet he does it repeatedly and says it's wit irony and hyperbole.
He also whines when someone suppsoedly lies, yet when he does it it's political reductionism.
And, it's par for the course to label people all kinds of various and sundry names.

[JohnGalt]

D., do you believe the Pope is a Christian? Y/N

[Loc123]

What is "honor"? Without an objective foundation--the Creator--honor is a subjective idea.

Let's assume Christianity--being the least hedonistic and animalistic religion--judges what is honorable. Then this man committed a mortal sin by suicide.

If you are a secularist, then who cares if this man died to preserve his convictions? It is foolishness since his "honorable sacrifice" meant nothing but an end to his life.

[JohnGalt]

No, I am a Christian, but I respect the humanist and pagan traditions of preserving honor through suicide just as I bring in a Christmas Tree every Winter. Valhalla required that the man die violently, though suicide was second best. These are my (yours?) ancestors after all so I try to honor the tradition.

The Japanese adopted a similar code:

Hara-kiri \Ha"ra-ki`ri\, n. [Japanese, stomach cutting.] Suicide, by slashing the abdomen, formerly practiced in Japan, and commanded by the government in the cases of disgraced officials; disembowelment; -- also written, but incorrectly, hari-kari. --W. E. Griffis.

[Loc123]

Without a ultimate purpose to it (ie it could produce good works), it is foolishness.

Tradition is irrelevant unless it produces good results.

You are a Christian, yet you do not accept the Lord's rule against suicide? The first commandment--upheld by Jesus--states you cannot worship other than God. Respecting an ungodly action seems to fit under the first commandments jurisdition, don't you think?

[JohnGalt]

This is an absolutely interesting conversation, and I think I am going to learn something here, so I preface that I hope you are posting in good faith.


Respecting seems to be the key word here because that would not be an accurate statement;I do not respect Herman Goering for committing suicide rather than face the gallows.

We live in an age where gross incompetence from the State does not even draw a resignation or a dismissal, let alone an old fashioned tar and feathering. Thus, to see someone who is part of the state actually demonstrate even a long forgotten concept of honor, to me, is worth noting.

I think the Lord would expect us to not believe in a Chosen People like a Calvinist, but as all his children.

[Loc123]

Be assured, I do post in good faith.

My dark nature understands you admiration for Kelly's actions. But my desire to accept God's Plan through Jesus makes me realize the Kelly's mistake.

As for your last paragraph: the Lord is very clear that we are to listen to Him and not hedonistic humans (which we all are naturally). My logic is this: Jesus is the ultimate authority, followed by His apostles, then the stories inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Of course we not not to segregate people into "chosen" or "unchosen"--that is discrimination and Jesus addresses this when He speaks to the gentile woman (Mark 7:24). But that does not mean God doesn't care how we live or what we believe--that is completley contrary to all of Christianity and indeed logic. Why would we be given logic, reasoning and self restraint--qualities that are absolutely absent in even our closest relative species--if we were to wantonly give into hedonism (as animals perpetually do)?

Anyways, thanks for encouraging this discussion.

[xJones]

I respect the humanist and pagan traditions of preserving honor through suicide just as I bring in a Christmas Tree every Winter. Valhalla required that the man die violently, though suicide was second best. These are my (yours?) ancestors after all so I try to honor the tradition.

The logic there is a little difficult. You honor suicide and Christmas trees due to tradition. I do hope that you don't honor the tradition about a man needing to die violently. If need be, though, I suppose you could short-circuit the lights on the Christmas tree, or whatever.....:)

[JohnGalt]

This is an indirect reply, and understand on this particular forum I am rather vocal so I am naturally suspicious of those bearing gifts.

I'm a Christian, I do not honor the act, I honor, as best I can, the man's world view to consider his choice. My pagan ancestor, no doubt, Welsh;Irish;Scottish Celtic/Druid, used a similar thought process, and Kelly being English, requires me to suggest that I honor that tradition, not the act.

I realize we worked out the first hurdle, L., but I son of the West must take the whole West, warts and all. That is the essence of the Western tradition of both 'patriotism' and 'volk.'

[JohnGalt]

Is it possible the Earthly 'good' result is setting a high standard in the State?

I ask only as a question, not as a statement of belief.

Ecclesiastes 12: For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

[Ethyl]

It appeared to me that kennedy was having a palsey, and hillery was cleaning her teath with her tongue when she saw her ugly self on TV and started smilling big time. Still, just as ugly.

[Ethyl]

It appeared to me that kennedy was having a palsey, and hillery was cleaning her teath with her tongue when she saw her ugly self on TV and started smilling big time. Still, just as ugly.

[Hotdog]

Well...if he (Ted Kennedy) reps the people it must be because the majority of people in Massachusetts are like him.

[Darksheare]

I already answered that one, one thread back.
Do you still believe France is our "Western Brother"?

[lonerepubinma]

Every time Kennedy hears the phrase WMD his mind shifts to "Where's My Dewars "

You are right about Ma. voters, with all the union thugs, college students and Grandma's with visions of young JFK stuck in their heads it does get disgusting around here.
When fat Ted finally gets to meet up with Jack & Bobby it will be a feeding frenzy with the naming of every that does not move after the bastard. Get ready for the 15 billion dollar Big Dig Kennedy tunnel.

[FBD]

"You run with invade everybody yahoos"

Well John, you can lump me in that category if it suits your linear thought process. I don‘t really care.

“Rest assured, I believe he killed himself because of what he had done, just another casualty to the Iraq war. I also believe he killed himself in the tradition of protecting his honor. What do you believe?”

I don’t know why he committed suicide, John. There is a report that he was being harassed by the Labor party left-wingers, and the BBC press was constantly calling his family. We all know how the press can destroy someone, right? Just ask Richard Jewel.

But rather than blindly speculate, I’ll wait for the report.

Regards.

---

In the news:

“Labour MP Andrew Mackinlay apologised for "any stress" his combative questioning at the hearing had "unintentionally" caused Dr Kelly."

“The findings of a judicial inquiry into the suicide of David Kelly, the weapons expert at the heart of allegations that the British government "sexed up" intelligence on Iraq's weapons programs, will be published on January 28.” AFP

Dr Kelly is survived by his wife, Janice, and three daughters Sian, 32, and 30-year-old twins Rachel and Ellen.

[JohnGalt]

Yeah, and Vince Foster killed himself over a negative editorial in the Wall Street Journal.

One thing is for sure, Leviathan is a killer.

Best to you and yours; may Janice and his daughters find peace and meaning,

[UCANSEE2]

Kelly was the sacrificial lamb of Great Britain.

What better way to discourage any search for the truth! State that Kelly hyped the report, then get rid of Kelly so he can't refute you.

Britain has the same fanatical, empty-brained, self-centered, 'left' as the US has, and has had it longer.