Posted on 01/23/2004 4:37:58 PM PST by Beck_isright
I know all that. There's a problem and Bush put forth this proposal to correct the situation. It's up to Congress to take action and make such things as INS brass, and local jurisdictions ignoring the law a crime. Congress needs to fix the situation and arrange the law, so that controls can be implemented.
It is sad that you do not seem to know your Bible, on the face of it, the entire premise of your argument is false. God does indeed recognize nations and borders. He in fact is the one who established all of the nations on the face of the Earth:
"From these the coastlands of the nations were separated into their lands, every one according to his language, according to their families, into their nations." (Gen. 10:5 cf 10:20, 10:31...)
“For I will drive out nations before you and enlarge your borders, and no man shall covet your land when you go up three times a year to appear before the LORD your God." (Ex. 34:24)
“When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
“Furthermore, you shall not intermarry with them; you shall not give your daughters to their sons, nor shall you take their daughters for your sons.
“For they will turn your sons away from following Me to serve other gods; then the anger of the LORD will be kindled against you and He will quickly destroy you.
“But thus you shall do to them: you shall tear down their altars, and smash their sacred pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.
“For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth." (Deut 7:1-6)
“He makes the nations great, then destroys them; He enlarges the nations, then leads them away." (Job 12:23)
Sorry to burst your bubble but it sounds like God was and is concerned about secure borders for a whole host of reasons, to me.
There are also numerous instances where His people were admonished to defend themselves against invaders from other nations which had gathered for the express purpose of entering the land to conquer it, destroying Israel and replace them as the "new owners" of the land. Surprisingly, it was ONLY when the nations of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms fell into national sin and turned away from the true and living God that God allowed them to be conquered and dispossessed from the land He had given them by the Assyrians and the Babylonians.
A simple word study of the terms "nation" and "nations" using an exhaustive concordance of the Bible will show that your premise is false.
This concept of secure borders was not just an Old Testament notion, even in the days of the Lord Jesus and the Apostle Paul; believing gentiles who were part of Caesar’s army (which was actively involved in subduing their conquered lands and SECURING the borders of Rome) were not counseled to give up their jobs in spite of the fact they were involved with securing the borders of Rome, rather Jesus admonished them in the following manner:
Some soldiers were questioning him, saying, “And what about us, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages.” (While Jesus addressed several centurions i.e. commanders of 100 men, the only admonition Jesus ever gave to soldiers in general in the Roman army is found here in Luke 3:14, and Jesus said nothing about the supposed injustice of maintaining the borders of Rome, which WAS a police state!)
In the account of the apostle Peter's address to Cornelius, a centurion and his friends and relatives in Caesarea (found in Acts 10), Peter does not say, as a good and loving Christian, Cornelius should no longer enforce Roman law by keeping the province of Casearea subjugated and it's borders secure.
As for the apostle Paul, he also had numerous contacts with centurions and soldiers of Rome throughout his ministry and not once does he ever say they should no longer enforce Roman law by keeping their borders secure.
In closing, based upon the Word of God, your argument does not hold water.
Some refuse to enforce them for the same reasons I gave above. Decent hard working folks that deserve the opportunity to be here would be caught up in it. It's a zero tolerance position they're faced with. Others are just commie types that want to flood the place with greatful morons. There's an opportunity here to trump the commie types and do the right thing for those born with no opportunity.
I gave you God's word and you cite Moses, who gave you those words out of the hardness of your own heart. Luke 16:20 "At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus" You have the command that you shall not steal, so using tax money for charitable purposes is wrong, but opportunity is not yours either, so you should not take it. You should not close the gate.
"Jesus said nothing about the supposed injustice of maintaining the borders of Rome"
Thou shalt not steal.
Exactly. This is something that is virtually impossible to achieve now, because Mexico doesn't want them back and is not cooperating. Go back to a bracero program (hated by the Dems and destroyed under Johnson, after which illegal immigration surged) and you have both a carrot and a stick. The carrot: Mexico gets to keep its income stream from guest workers. The stick: we reduce the number of guest workers if they do not cooperate in taking back their criminals and keeping them at home in their own jails.
Right now, the situation is so bad we can't even identify the creeps in order to send them back.
I think the guest worker program is a great idea. It needs more definition and discussion. But taking the Dem approach (which is "NO," because what the Dems really want is amnesty, in which illegals will be able to automatically become citizens and vote for them) is short sighted and is only going to make the problem worse.
I guess, In your world, having the illegal register won't help prevent that?
Possibly --- Bush's proposals were very vague -- he never mentioned what he'd do about the nonworking illegals --- the welfare moochers, the criminals, the youth gangs. Will he deport those who committed felony document fraud with their stolen Social Security numbers? Will he deport those taking some kind of welfare handout? Do those standing in parking lots begging for a day job get the blue card? Or does that job have to be a steady one with employers willing to provide their illegal some benefits like health insurance?
A lot of us went through the 80's amnesty which turned out to be enormous fraud --- the illegal never had to prove they lived and worked here, so you saw almost 3 million people come over the border who had never worked here and they got their amnesty.
That's for sure --- it is crazy to think someone would change from a PRI party voter to a Republican just because they broke US law and came across the Rio Grande.
With over a third living off welfare --- it's hard to respect their work ethic. Also when you look at Mexico itself, there isn't much evidence of that work ethic doing much good. Some do work hard --- many don't --- but often that work ethic they have is kind of backward --- you can tell a Mexican to plow your field, he'll grab a shovel and get to work, you tell an American to plow your field, he'll ask where is the tractor. That doesn't mean the American doesn't have a work ethic --- he just wants to do a job efficiently.
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