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The Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations
betar ^ | Wednesday 24th Dec 2003 | Professor Moshe Sharon

Posted on 01/24/2004 2:31:12 AM PST by dennisw

The Agenda of Islam - A War Between Civilizations

Professor Moshe Sharon- Wednesday 24th Dec 2003



The war has started a long time ago between two civilizations - between the civilization based on the Bible and between the civilization based on the Koran. And this must be clear.

There is no fundamental Islam.
"Fundamentalism" is a word that came from the heart of the Christian religion. It means faith that goes by the word of the Bible. Fundamental Christianity, or going with the Bible, does not mean going around and killing people. There is no fundamental Islam. There is only Islam full stop. The question is how the Koran is interpreted.

All of a sudden we see that the greatest interpreters of Islam are politicians in the western world. They know better than all the speakers in the mosques, all those who deliver terrible sermons against anything that is either Christian or Jewish. These western politicians know that there is good Islam and bad Islam. They know even how to differentiate between the two, except that none of them know how to read a word of Arabic.

The Language of Islam
You see, so much is covered by politically correct language that, in fact, the truth has been lost. For example, when we speak about Islam in the west, we try to use our own language and terminology. We speak about Islam in terms of democracy and fundamentalism, in terms of parliamentarism and all kinds of terms, which we take from our own dictionary. One of my professors and one of the greatest orientalists in the world says that doing this is like a cricket reporter describing a cricket game in baseball terms. We cannot use for one culture or civilization the language of another. For Islam, you've got to use the language of Islam.

Driving Principles of Islam
Let me explain the principles that are driving the religion of Islam. Of course, every Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is only one God.
But it's not enough to say that there is only one God. A Moslem has to acknowledge the fact that there is one God and Mohammed is his prophet. These are the fundamentals of the religion that without them, one cannot be a Moslem.
But beyond that, Islam is a civilization. It is a religion that gave first and foremost a wide and unique legal system that engulfs the individual, society and nations with rules of behaviour. If you are Moslem, you have to behave according to the rules of Islam which are set down in the Koran and which are very different than the teachings of the Bible.

The Bible
Let me explain the difference.
The Bible is the creation of the spirit of a nation over a very, very long period, if we talk from the point of view of the scholar, and let me remain scholarly. But there is one thing that is important in the Bible. It leads to salvation. It leads to salvation in two ways.

In Judaism, it leads to national salvation - not just a nation that wants to have a state, but a nation that wants to serve God. That's the idea behind the Hebrew text of the Bible.

The New Testament that took the Hebrew Bible moves us toward personal salvation. So we have got these two kinds of salvation, which, from time to time, meet each other.

But the key word is salvation. Personal salvation means that each individual is looked after by God, Himself, who leads a person through His word to salvation. This is the idea in the Bible, whether we are talking about the Old or the New Testament. All of the laws in the Bible, even to the minutest ones, are, in fact directed toward this fact of salvation.

Secondly, there is another point in the Bible, which is highly important. This is the idea that man was created in the image of God. Therefore, you don't just walk around and obliterate the image of God. Many people, of course, used Biblical rules and turned them upside down. History has seen a lot of massacres in the name of God and in the name of Jesus. But as religions, both Judaism and Christianity in their fundamentals speak about honouring the image of God and the hope of salvation. These are the two basic fundamentals.

The Essence of Islam
Now let's move to the essence of Islam. Islam was born with the idea that it should rule the world.

Let's look, then, at the difference between these three religions. Judaism speaks about national salvation - namely that at the end of the story, when the world becomes a better place, Israel will be in its own land, ruled by its own king and serving God. Christianity speaks about the idea that every single person in the world can be saved from his sings, while Islam speaks about ruling the world. I can quote here in Arabic, but there is no point in quoting Arabic, so let me quote a verse in English. "Allah sent Mohammed with the true religion so that it should rule over all the religions."

The idea, then, is not that the whole world would become a Moslem world at this time, but that the whole world would be subdued under the rule of Islam.
When the Islamic empire was established in 634 AD, within seven years - 640 - the core of the empire was created. The rules that were taken from the Koran and from the tradition that was ascribed to the prophet Mohammed, were translated into a real legal system. Jews and Christians could live under Islam provided they paid poll tax and accepted Islamic superiority. Of course, they had to be humiliated. And Jews and Christians living under Islam are humiliated to this very day.

Mohammed Held That All the Biblical Prophets Were Moslems
Mohammed did accept the existence of all the Biblical prophets before him. However he also said that all these prophets were Moslems. Abraham was a Moslem. In fact, Adam himself was the first Moslem. Isaac and Jacob and David and Solomon and Moses and Jesus were all Moslems, and all of them had writings similar to the Koran. Therefore, world history is Islamic history because all the heroes of history were Moslems.

Furthermore, Moslems accept the fact that each of these prophets brought with him some kind of a revelation. Moses, brought the Taurat, which is the Torah, and Jesus brought the Ingeel, which is the Evangelion or Gospel - namely the New Testament.

The Bible vs. the Koran
Why then is the Bible not similar to the Koran?

Mohammed explains that the Jews and Christians forged their books. Had they not been changed and forged, they would have been identical to the Koran. But because Christians and Jews do have some truth, Islam concedes that they cannot be completely destroyed by war [for now].

Nevertheless, the laws a very clear - Jews and Christians have no rights whatsoever to independent existence. They can live under Islamic rule provided they keep to the rules that Islam promulgates for them.

Islamic Rule and Jihad
What happens if Jews and Christians don't want to live under the rules of Islam? Then Islam has to fight them and this fighting is called Jihad. Jihad means war against those people who don't want to accept the Islamic superior rule. That's jihad. They may be Jews; they may be Christians; they may be Polytheists. But since we don't have too many Polytheists left, at least not in the Middle East - their war is against the Jews and Christians.

A few days ago, I received a pamphlet that was distributed in the world by bin Laden. He calls for jihad against America as the leader of the Christian world, not because America is the supporter of Israel, but because Americans are desecrating Arabia with their filthy feet. There are Americans in Arabia were no Christians should be. In this pamphlet there is not a single word about Israel. Only that Americans are desecrating the home of the prophet.

Two Houses
The Koran sees the world as divided into two - one part which has come under Islamic rule and one part which is supposed to come under Islamic rule in the future. There is a division of the world which is very clear. Every single person who starts studying Islam knows it. The world is described as Dar al-Islam (the house of Islam) - that's the place where Islam rules - and the other part which is called Dar al-Harb - the house of war. Not the "house of non-Muslims," but the "house of war." It is this house of war which as to be, at the end of time, conquered. The world will continue to be in the house of war until it comes under Islamic rule.
This is the norm. Why? Because Allah says it's so in the Koran. God has sent Mohammed with the true religion in order that the truth will overcome all other religions.

Islamic Law
Within the Islamic vision of this world, there are rules that govern the lives of the Moslems themselves, and these rules are very strict. In fundamentals, there are no differences between schools of law.

However, there are four streams of factions within Islam with differences between them concerning the minutiae of the laws. All over the Islamic world, countries have favored one or another of these schools of laws.
The strictest school of law is called Hanbali, mainly coming out of Saudi Arabia. There are no games there, no playing around with the meanings of words. If the Koran speaks about war, then it's war.

There are various perspectives in Islam with different interpretations over the centuries. There were good people that were very enlightened in Islam that tried to understand things differently. They even brought traditions from the mouth of the prophet that women and children should not be killed in war.
These more liberal streams do exist, but there is one thing that is very important for us to remember. The Hanbali school of law is extremely strict, and today this is the school that is behind most of the terrorist powers. Even if we talk about the existence of other schools of Islamic law, when we're talking about fighting against the Jews, or fighting against the Christian world led by America, it is the Hanbali school of law that is being followed.

Islam and Territory
This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.
This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.
Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because - and this is very important - this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.

Islam and Peace
Peace in Islam can exist only within the Islamic world; peace can only be between Moslem and Moslem.

With the non-Moslem world or non-Moslem opponents, there can be only one solution - a cease fire until Moslems can gain more power. It is an eternal war until the end of days. Peace can only come if the Islamic side wins.
The two civilizations can only have periods of cease-fires. And this idea of cease-fire is based on a very important historical precedent, which, incidentally, Yasser Arafat referred to when he spoke in Johannesburg after he signed the Oslo agreement with Israel.

Let me remind you that the document speaks of peace - you wouldn't believe that you are reading! You would think that you were reading some science fiction piece. I mean when you read it, you can't believe that this was signed by Israelis who are actually acquainted with Islamic policies and civilization.

A few weeks after the Oslo agreement was signed, Arafat went to Johannesburg, and in a mosque there he made a speech in which he apologized, saying, "Do you think I signed something with the Jews which is contrary to the rules of Islam?" (I have obtained a copy of Arafat's recorded speech so I heard it from his own mouth.) Arafat continued, "That's not so. I'm doing exactly what the prophet Mohammed did."

Whatever the prophet is supposed have done becomes a precedent. What Arafat was saying was, "Remember the story of Hodaybiya." The prophet had made an agreement there with the tribe of Kuraish for 10 years. But then he trained 10,000 soldiers and within two years marched on their city of Mecca. He, of course, found some kind of pretext.

Thus, in Islamic jurisdiction, it became a legal precedent which states that you are only allowed to make peace for a maximum of 10 years.
Secondly, at the first instance that you are able, you must renew the jihad [thus breaking the "peace" agreement].

In Israel, it has taken over 50 years in this country for our people to understand that they cannot speak about [permanent] peace with Moslems. It will take another 50 years for the western world to understand that they have got a state of war with the Islamic civilization that is virile and strong. This should be understood: When we talk about war and peace, we are not talking in Belgium, French, English, or German terms. We are talking about war and peace in Islamic terms.

Cease-fire as a Tactical Choice
What makes Islam accept cease-fire? Only one thing - when the enemy is too strong. It is a tactical choice.

Sometimes, he may have to agree to a cease-fire in the most humiliating conditions. It's allowed because Mohammed accepted a cease-fire under humiliating conditions. That's what Arafat said to them in Johannesburg.
When western policy makers hear these things, they answer, "What are you talking about? You are in the Middle Ages. You don't understand the mechanisms of politics."

Which mechanisms of politics? There are no mechanisms of politics where power is. And I want to tell you one thing - we haven't seen the end of it, because the minute a radical Moslem power has atomic, chemical or biological weapons, they will use it. I have no doubt about that.

Now, since we face war and we know that we cannot get more than an impermanent cease-fire, one has to ask himself what is the major component of an Israeli/Arab cease-fire. It is that the Islamic side is weak and your side is strong. The relations between Israel and the Arab world in the last 50 years since the establishment of our State has been based only on this idea, the deterrent power.

Wherever You Have Islam, You Will Have War
The reason that we have what we have in Yugoslavia and other places is because Islam succeeded into entering these countries. Wherever you have Islam, you will have war. It grows out of the attitude of Islamic civilization.

What are the poor people in the Philippines being killed for? What's happening between Pakistan and India?

Islamic Infiltration
Furthermore, there is another fact that must be remembered. The Islamic world has not only the attitude of open war, but there's also war by infiltration.
One of the things which the western world is not paying enough attention to is the tremendous growth of Islamic power in the western world. What happened in America and the Twin Towers is not something that came from the outside. And if America doesn't wake up, one day the Americans will find themselves in a chemical war and most likely in an atomic war - inside the U.S.

End of Days
It is highly important to understand how a civilization sees the end of days. In Christianity and in Judaism, we know exactly what is the vision of the end of days.
In Judaism, it is going to be as in Isaiah - peace between nations, not just one nation, but between all nations. People will not have any more need for weapons and nature will be changed - a beautiful end of days and the kingdom of God on earth.

Christianity goes as far as Revelation to see a day that Satan himself is obliterated. There are no more powers of evil. That's the vision.

I'm speaking now as a historian. I try to understand how Islam sees the end of days. In the end of days, Islam sees a world that is totally Moslem, completely Moslem under the rule of Islam. Complete and final victory.

Christians will not exist, because according to many Islamic traditions, the Moslems who are in hell will have to be replaced by somebody and they'll be replaced by the Christians.

The Jews will no longer exist, because before the coming of the end of days, there is going to be a war against the Jews where all Jews should be killed. I'm quoting now from the heart of Islamic tradition, from the books that are read by every child in school. They Jews will all be killed. They'll be running away and they'll be hiding behind trees and rocks, and on that day Allah will give mouths to the rocks and trees and they will say, "Oh Moslem come here, there is a Jew behind me, kill him." Without this, the end of days cannot come. This is a fundamental of Islam.

Is There a Possibility to End This Dance of War?
The question which we in Israel are asking ourselves is what will happen to our country? Is there a possibility to end this dance of war?

The answer is, "No. Not in the foreseeable future." What we can do is reach a situation where for a few years we may have relative quiet.

But for Islam, the establishment of the state of Israel was a reverse of Islamic history. First, Islamic territory was taken away from Islam by Jews. You know by now that this can never be accepted, not even one meter. So everyone who thinks Tel Aviv is safe is making a grave mistake. Territory, which at one time was dominated by Islamic rule, now has become non-Moslem. Non-Moslems are independent of Islamic rule; Jews have created their own independent state. It is anathema.

And (this is the worse) Israel, a non-Moslem state, is ruling over Moslems. It is unthinkable that non-Moslems should rule over Moslems.

I believe that Western civilization should hold together and support each other. Whether this will happen or not, I don't know. Israel finds itself on the front lines of this war. It needs the help of its sister civilization. It needs the help of America and Europe. It needs the help of the Christian world. One thing I am sure about, this help can be given by individual Christians who see this as the road to salvation.



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: clashofcivilizatio; clashofcivilizations; islam; westerncivilization
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1 posted on 01/24/2004 2:31:13 AM PST by dennisw
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To: American in Israel
ping
2 posted on 01/24/2004 2:31:51 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: dennisw; Valin; tubavil; Stopislamnow; SJackson; BayouCoyote; nuffsenuff; Helms; Taiwan Bocks; ...
 

 

 


Ping list for Islamic Jihad and terrorism. 3 pings per day. 
On or off, let me know by freepmail anytime.

 

 

3 posted on 01/24/2004 2:32:36 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: dennisw
Another good resource: www.prophetofdoom.net
4 posted on 01/24/2004 2:35:47 AM PST by ovrtaxt (You got an extra Koran? I'm like totally out of toilet paper.)
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To: ovrtaxt
http://www.prophetofdoom.net is a great resource on Muhammed's depraved life and the depraved Koran.
5 posted on 01/24/2004 2:38:46 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: ambrose
Didn't we kind of already know this?
6 posted on 01/24/2004 2:40:46 AM PST by Mark17
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To: Mark17
Islam and Territory
This civilization created one very important, fundamental rule about territory. Any territory that comes under Islamic rule cannot be de-Islamized. Even if at one time or another, the [non-Moslem] enemy takes over the territory that was under Islamic rule, it is considered to be perpetually Islamic.
This is why whenever you hear about the Arab/Israeli conflict, you hear - territory, territory, territory. There are other aspects to the conflict, but territory is highly important.

The Christian civilization has not only been seen as a religious opponent, but as a dam stopping Islam from achieving its final goal for which it was created.
Islam was created to be the army of God, the army of Allah. Every single Moslem is a soldier in this army. Every single Moslem that dies in fighting for the spread of Islam is a shaheed (martyr) no matter how he dies, because - and this is very important - this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.
7 posted on 01/24/2004 2:42:40 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: dennisw
Scary stuff. We'd best keep working on our missile defense systems because it sounds like they'll be firing some warheads in our direction at some time later in this century.
8 posted on 01/24/2004 2:43:46 AM PST by defenderSD (Contrary to rumors circulating on the web, I am not Silvio Berlusconi.)
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To: defenderSD
BFLR.
9 posted on 01/24/2004 2:45:59 AM PST by JusPasenThru (Reasoning with a man is futile when his opinions were not reached by reason in the first place.)
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To: JusPasenThru
Good tag line, but what does "BFLR" stand for?
10 posted on 01/24/2004 2:48:02 AM PST by defenderSD (Contrary to rumors circulating on the web, I am not Silvio Berlusconi.)
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To: dennisw
ping
11 posted on 01/24/2004 2:49:05 AM PST by philetus (Keep doing what you always do and you'll keep getting what you always get)
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To: dennisw
There isn't a lot of politicos in the US who will speak openly, what with the concept of political correctness and all, however, the war on terror is the civilized world against muslim. And the muslim are ruthless.
12 posted on 01/24/2004 2:52:08 AM PST by exnavy
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To: defenderSD
Big F---ing Long Read ?
13 posted on 01/24/2004 2:54:01 AM PST by exnavy
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To: dennisw
This piece pretty sums up the whole islame thing.

Now if we could just get someone to print this article in very bold letters, cover every word with a bright yellow highlighter and place it on Pres. Bushs desk.

The term "religion of peace" seems not to apply.
14 posted on 01/24/2004 3:40:22 AM PST by ExSafecracker (Ladies and Gentlemen, Pres. Hilliary Rodham and her First Lady, Janet Reno-Rodham!)
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To: dennisw; All
Cross-link:

-Islam, a Religion of Peace®? Some links...--

15 posted on 01/24/2004 3:51:09 AM PST by backhoe (The 1990's? The Decade of Fraud(s)... the 00's? The Decade of Lunatics...)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Religion of Peace ping.
16 posted on 01/24/2004 4:07:17 AM PST by risk
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To: All
Clash of Civilizatio:
To find all articles tagged or indexed using Clash of Civilizatio, click below:
  click here >>> Clash of Civilizatio <<< click here  
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)


17 posted on 01/24/2004 4:22:12 AM PST by backhoe (The 1990's? The Decade of Fraud(s)... the 00's? The Decade of Lunatics...)
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To: dennisw
I watched the opening of the movie The Exorcist on DVD. It begins with scarlet red letters on a black background while you hear this horrible Islamic chant reverberate.

I thought--"How appropriate."

18 posted on 01/24/2004 4:30:53 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: defenderSD
Scary stuff. We'd best keep working on our missile defense systems because it sounds like they'll be firing some warheads in our direction at some time later in this century.

Ummm..I'm a huge supporter of missle defense (and think we need it up & operational YESTERDAY if not sooner), but the bigger problems are the wide-open borders.

With tactical (suitcase) nukes, chem & bio, the missle shield ain't gonna do squat except protect us from N. Korea, Russia, etc. (Very important, but secondary to the insane border issue).

The ONLY way to save America is to close the damned borders tighter than Fort Knox, and export anyone here trying to kill us.

The problem is..it's a POLITICAL (not technological) issue that neither side (Repub nor Dem) will touch, as it will cost them too many votes.

Too bad, as this will could very well be the death of the US as we know it..but, hey..at least people will get themselves re-elected and hold onto power for a few more years..[barf!]

19 posted on 01/24/2004 4:35:05 AM PST by jstolzen
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To: jstolzen
The ONLY way to save America is to close the damned borders tighter than Fort Knox, and export anyone here trying to kill us. The problem is..it's a POLITICAL (not technological) issue that neither side (Repub nor Dem) will touch, as it will cost them too many votes.

Actually, sealing the borders and kicking out the bad guys is supported by the vast majority of the American electorate, and would therefore doubtlessly bring many more votes to any President with guts enough to make the move.

20 posted on 01/24/2004 4:47:52 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: dennisw
technology has always been critical in winning wars. islam has very little if any technology advantage.

with high tech sensors, baby bombers and exploding underpants ain't gonna be effective much longer.

21 posted on 01/24/2004 4:50:48 AM PST by alrea
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To: ExSafecracker
The term "religion of peace" seems not to apply.

In fact, the phrase sounds ......psychotic. It's akin to someone calling Nazism "the party of peace" during WW2.

22 posted on 01/24/2004 4:51:13 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: SkyPilot
I watched the opening of the movie The Exorcist on DVD. It begins with scarlet red letters on a black background while you hear this horrible Islamic chant reverberate.
I thought--"How appropriate."
__________


You are right about the Islamic "call to prayer" that it opens with. I've never seen the film but now I will


http://216.239.37.104/search?q=cache:vZqX9b4gHJYJ:www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1373/5_50/62087854/p1/article.jhtml+%22The+Exorcist%22++Islamic&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


23 posted on 01/24/2004 4:57:10 AM PST by dennisw (“We'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way.” - Toby Keith)
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To: dennisw
So, the only safety will be when the last Muslim is dead? There's about a billion of 'em; better get started!

Being good Christians we will pray for their souls as we slaughter them. < /sarcasm >

As Golda Meier supposedly said, "we can forgive you for killing our children, but not for making us kill yours."
24 posted on 01/24/2004 5:07:18 AM PST by JimRed (Disinformation is the leftist's and enemy's friend; consider the source before believing.)
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To: jstolzen
I'm a huge supporter of missle defense (and think we need it up & operational YESTERDAY if not sooner), but the bigger problems are the wide-open borders.

With tactical (suitcase) nukes, chem & bio, the missle shield ain't gonna do squat except protect us from N. Korea, Russia, etc.

The biggest problem IMHO we have in dealing with islamic terrorists, is that most Islamic nations do have much by way of a convention or even non-conventional military. It would be foolish for any of these countries to take an openly defiant stance, as they have no serious offense or even defense from the United states. So even if the nation itself takes issue with us, (and grounds for war is as simple as allowing terrorism to flourish)we will be forced to take arms against other nations unable to fight us as we did in Afghanistan and Iraq. (Yea, yea...quagmire... I know)Thus, the Anti-American UN has fuel to rally other nations against us. The EU will eventually be a force to be reckoned with, and when you sit at the top of the heap, everyone dreams of knocking you off. France salivates over the notion, as I am certain does Russia and China.
25 posted on 01/24/2004 5:16:16 AM PST by Superlyn
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To: dennisw
Have you ever checked out http://www.VicMord.com? An excellent source of truth about what Islam is really all about. I would be interested in your opinion, after you review it. Thanks and keep up the good work!
26 posted on 01/24/2004 5:17:06 AM PST by Sandmansleeper (Quinn's First Law: Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent)
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To: alrea
with high tech sensors, baby bombers and exploding underpants ain't gonna be effective much longer.

Coincidentally, I always feel like my underpants are about to explode.

27 posted on 01/24/2004 5:19:34 AM PST by Lazamataz (The Republicans have turned into Democrats, and the Democrats have turned into Marxists.)
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To: jstolzen
" The ONLY way to save America is to close the damned borders tighter than Fort Knox, and export anyone here trying to kill us. The problem is..it's a POLITICAL (not technological) issue that neither side (Repub nor Dem) will touch, as it will cost them too many votes. "

Shortsighted pcycobabble…

If we sealed ourselves up and disengaged from the world, Islamic fascism would win. The nukes would be on our borders, and our enemy would be within.

Be on guard, but have confidence. This latest spike of Islamic aggression is out of desperation. They know their civilization is stagnating at best and ours is winning.

28 posted on 01/24/2004 5:31:20 AM PST by elfman2
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To: Mark17; nopardons
Actually, I knew a good bit of it, but there were several things in here I DID NOT KNOW, courtesy of the gov't reeducation camp experience (public schools) to keep me and hoardes like me dirt ignorant.

The territory thing ... I didn't know that. I thought the attacks on Israel were primarily motivated by hatred of Jews. So, in this thread, I see two major things missing: what about Turkey? That's clearly no longer "al Dar" - oops, forgot about the recent major terrorist attacks there.

And what about IRAQ? If the hellishness in Israel is an indicator, then by definition, it's unlikely Iraq will be Jihad-free in a few years. So, it means our resource committment will GROW, not subside, if this article's premises about house of Islam, house of war, and the impossibility of de-Islamization is correct.

So, the implications here are pretty clear: The draft is going to be reinstitued in the USA within 10 years. Talk about the coming bugle call of "wake up, time to fight". An awful lot of people are going to be groggy and whining for a good bit.

The question is, when did secular humanists ever answer the clarion call to battle, fight bravely for their cause, with some dying courageously in battle, and WIN?

The author is correct .... for the most part, it is Christians w/ metal-cased Bibles in their jackets in Iraq that are fighting right now. Christian baptisms have been taking place in battle fields... And Israel is going to need a LOT MORE OF THEM in the future.

Ironically enough, a revival is just what the USA needs, to end the scourge of secular humanism in our nation. And if permanent war is needed for that ... well, how is that any different than what the history books teach anyway?

(Oh, how I hope I'm a DEAD WRONG stupid laocoon about these comments - that no trojon horse is outside the gates...)
29 posted on 01/24/2004 5:43:10 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon)
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To: dennisw
Bump for later.
30 posted on 01/24/2004 5:43:37 AM PST by Rummyfan
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To: dennisw
Bumped & Bookmarked
31 posted on 01/24/2004 5:49:50 AM PST by Freebird Forever
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To: JimRed
So, the only safety will be when the last Muslim is dead? There's about a billion of 'em; better get started!

On bad days, I think that this is what it will come to (flame suit on).
32 posted on 01/24/2004 5:53:35 AM PST by Rummyfan
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Bump for later read
33 posted on 01/24/2004 5:54:32 AM PST by A Simple Soldier
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To: elfman2
Shortsighted pcycobabble…

HUH? I didn't say "disengage from the world". What I suggested is that we DON'T LET THE BAD GUYS INTO THE COUNTRY IN THE FIRST PLACE".

It is not "shortsighted" at all, and a pretty simple premise: if you export the bad guys (round them up, like we did the Germans in WWII that were sent here by Hitler to blow up US factories during the war), and have a preventative mechanism in place to keep them from coming back (good border control), they can't hit you. Or, at the very least, you make it VERY hard to attack the US from within.

As it stands today, ANY terrorist could walk ANY weapon into the US and detonate it at will. If we keep them OFF US Soil in the first place, or make it a LOT harder, this is a whole lot less likely to happen.

We are "sitting ducks" as it stands now, and lack the societal awareness/intelligence and political will to do a darn thing about it.

34 posted on 01/24/2004 5:57:16 AM PST by jstolzen
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To: backhoe
Do you have...

'Nazi Roots of Modern Radical Islam'...FR thread from 12-18-02

Also, a related book...:

'Modern Fascism: Liquidating the Judeo-Christian Worldview'...book by Prof. G. E. Veith

35 posted on 01/24/2004 5:58:38 AM PST by harbingr (USA/FreeRepublic/The Constitution Party: the Last, Best Hope of Mankind)
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To: harbingr
Thanks for the links- saved to disc.
36 posted on 01/24/2004 6:01:34 AM PST by backhoe (--30--)
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To: gobucks
The territory thing ... I didn't know that.

Some of the translations over on www.memri.org indicate they want to retake Constantinople and ... Rome. They don't like it one bit that the seat of Catholicism is on territory briefly occupied by Muslim invaders.

37 posted on 01/24/2004 6:17:49 AM PST by angkor
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To: risk
Don't insult my intelligence.

You may want to believe in absolutes, go right ahead.

"Islam" has no agenda, extremist Islamic fundamentalists do, the first rule of war is to identify your enemy...thus far, you're failing miserably.
38 posted on 01/24/2004 6:28:26 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez (The Gift Is To See The Trout.)
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To: jstolzen
The ONLY way to save America is to close the damned borders tighter than Fort Knox, and export anyone here trying to kill us.

A mosque a minute, until we're done.

ML/NJ

39 posted on 01/24/2004 6:46:14 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: upier
ping, despite typos
40 posted on 01/24/2004 6:52:15 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: jstolzen
" HUH? I didn't say "disengage from the world". "

Excuse me if I presume something that’s untrue. I’ve found that virtually everyone who promotes hermetically sealed borders imagines it as part of a disengaged foreign policy, abandoning relationships with states like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan etc with mixed cooperation on terrorism.

41 posted on 01/24/2004 6:53:47 AM PST by elfman2
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To: defenderSD
Bump for later read. I didn't feel like typing it all out at 4AM.
42 posted on 01/24/2004 7:00:12 AM PST by JusPasenThru (Reasoning with a man is futile when his opinions were not reached by reason in the first place.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Islam" has no agenda

Really?

And Nazism had none either. Open your eyes.

ML/NJ

43 posted on 01/24/2004 7:10:16 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: dennisw
Awesome find.

Now if our politicians would give up the delusion of a "Religion of Peace" we could start to seriously discuss neutralizing this death cult.
44 posted on 01/24/2004 7:19:53 AM PST by Stopislamnow (If Bin Laden is in Pakistan, why is it still inhabitable? We're a buncha pussies.)
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To: angkor
thanks for that ... I'll check it out.
45 posted on 01/24/2004 7:27:39 AM PST by gobucks (http://oncampus.richmond.edu/academics/classics/students/Ribeiro/laocoon)
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To: Rummyfan
You can be damn sure if they set off a nuclear weapon (or two) in this country, it will come to a billion of them dead. Americans are a tolerant people, probably too tolerant, but if that happens, it will make what happened to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor look like tea at Aunt Martha's.

Remember the famous quote (speaker's name escapes me, but he was a top military leader in WWII at the beginning) "When I'm finished, the only place Japanese (Arabic) will be spoken is in hell".

Like Jonah Goldberg said a few months ago (paraphrase) "Terrorists be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it, and you DON'T want jihad with America". From some of the earlier posts here, looks like Al Quaeda has found that out the hard way already.

46 posted on 01/24/2004 7:41:15 AM PST by Hardastarboard
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To: JimRed
So, the only safety will be when the last Muslim is dead?

I don't believe that was anybody's supposition but yours.

47 posted on 01/24/2004 7:41:24 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: gobucks
(Oh, how I hope I'm a DEAD WRONG stupid laocoon about these comments - that no trojon horse is outside the gates...)
==========================================

For all you lurkers, DUers, and folks in Rio Linda, and Palm Beach county this is (a) Laocoon:


What is a 'Laocoön'?

As it turns out, the original Laocoön was a person, a priest of Troy who warned his fellow Trojans about 'Greeks bearing gifts' in an effort to keep them from admitting the famous Horse within the walls; he threw his spear at it to show them that it was hollow. Somewhat later, as he was sacrificing to Poseidon, a pair of sea monsters emerged from the waves and killed him and his two sons in the fashion of boa constrictors. The Trojans took this to mean the gods were mad at him for striking the horse, and after he died they brought it right in to the city.

48 posted on 01/24/2004 7:48:43 AM PST by yankeedame ("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
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To: dennisw
...this is an eternal word between the two civilizations. It's not a war that stops. This was is there because it was created by Allah. Islam must be the ruler. This is a war that will not end.

Genesis 16
11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

49 posted on 01/24/2004 7:48:50 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: angkor
They don't like it one bit that the seat of Catholicism is on territory briefly occupied by Muslim invaders.

I found this article on the MEMRI site where some jihadists are predicting Islamic control of Rome and Istanbul at some point in the future. But when was Rome ever occupied by Muslims in the past?

50 posted on 01/24/2004 8:07:39 AM PST by AzJohn
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