ARTILLERY: US Sheds Most Non-Divisional Artillery

StrategyPage.com ^ | January 31, 2004

[Cannoneer No. 4]

January 31, 2004: The U.S. Army has decided that smart bombs and smart shells make a lot of its artillery units unnecessary. So two thirds of its non-divisional (those that that are not part of a combat division) artillery battalions will be converted to other uses (engineers, military police and civil affairs.) That's 36 artillery battalions containing nearly 10,000 troops. Most of these are National Guard units, who report to state governors until they are called up by the federal government. The governors won't mind having fewer artillery, and more engineer, military police and civil affairs battalions, as these units are more useful for the natural disasters the governors usually call upon National Guard units to help out with.

[Stopislamnow]

Well, when thousands of Chinese Migs totally negate any air superiority we had, we'll wish we had alot of the things we don't seem to need today.

I know, I know, we'll never go to war with China. But there is that troublesome Aztlan movement...

[Criminal Number 18F]

All you really need to win a war is SF and EOD

Nope. Gotta have air for the SF to call on the bad guys (and to leave odds and ends lying about for you nut cases to tickle...)

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Criminal Number 18F]

John F'ing Kerry wants "a combat division and a support division" -- well he's pathetic, that's a given, but I wonder how much the average Army O-2 knows about how the Navy organises its boats. Ships. Whatever.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[jpsb]

I would love to see big Mo, or New Jersey or Wisconsin back in action. Yea they are expensive, but nothing gets an enemy's attention like a 16 in gun.

[I got the rope]

But there is that troublesome Aztlan movement...

Awwww...those misplaced Mexican-Americans who claim to be Indian, but wish for the Southwest to go back to it's proper owners...rich euro-trash spaniard/french elitists.

Give me one mortar platoon and I'll close the border...guaranteed!

[Cannoneer No. 4]

They did away with cavalry charges?

[300winmag]

things sure have changed, when I was in we were taught that fire power won battles. Wonder what changed.

Nothing's changed, except for added wishful thinking. There will never be enough organic mortars, or gunships, to provide instant firepower 24/7 in all kinds of weather. And the USAF would like 48 hours notice.

Except for manpower, arty is dirt cheap. $1 per pound, delivered right to the bad guy. Smart ammo costs a lot more, and is not all-weather.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Your going to close the border from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific Ocean with one mortar platoon? Male bovine excrement.

[neverdem]

things sure have changed, when I was in we were taught that fire power won battles. Wonder what changed.

IMHO, precision guiided munitions, some munitions having multiple guidance systems that possess very high probability of hitting intended targets, confidence in air superiority and the ability to maintain it.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

your you're

[Criminal Number 18F]

when thousands of Chinese Migs totally negate any air superiority we had

So far, the only thing the aeronautical industry of China has produced in quantity is targets. Now that might change, if the Prez's corporate pals keep selling the nation out for Chinese "opportunity." (As they did unencumbered by anything but the need to rent the Lincoln Bedroom for an occasional night during the Clinton regime). Improving the Chinese military would be a good third leg to go with his amnestía and piss-art subsidies.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[Tailback]

I just had this discussion with a guy in my National Guard unit.

Here in Oregon we just had some pretty severe wind/rain/snow weather. Naval, and Air Force planes are unlikely to be able to fly in those conditions. If there is no Artillery assets available to soldiers in deep doo-doo then they'll just get overrun and slaughtered. The good thing is that the current leadership in the US Army doesn't care if enlisted guys get killed needlessly so the money saved on Artillery can go to improving the golf courses on all Army bases worldwide.

[I got the rope]

Sure will...no one will know what state we'll hit from one week to the next.

Oh yeah and once we arrest people, we won't let them go. They will have to serve 5 years hard labor for crossing the border. Free labor. Sounds cruel, but it will work because it will no longer be worth it to come here.

[Captainpaintball]

The U.S. Army has decided that smart bombs and smart shells make a lot of its artillery units unnecessary.

Oh, they mean the ones that are made by the company BOUGHT BY CHINA JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO? They use those special magnets, right? FOUND IN THE MINES CHINA BOUGHT JUST A FEW MONTHS AGO?

Thr epitaph on America's tombstome will read: WE DESERVED IT

[JasonC]

It is dumb and it is silly to tell those who know it is dumb to put up with it. Are smart mortars better than dumb howitzers? Sure. Straw man. Smart howitzers are better than dumb mortars, and better than smart mortars too. There are terminal homing rounds and ICM rounds for either. For one thing, they have three times the range. For another, organic mortars carry enough for about half an hour of supporting fire. Then you are out, and can pray.

It is just an institutional promotion and funding fight. The air force promises more than it can deliver to get enough of an undersized pie to pay for critical upgrades. Within the army, the snakeaters cite their machismo as evidence nothing else matters. The logistics types and bottom line boys back them up because NG majors and colonels have less pentagon pull than the Domino's delivery boy. Actual combat effectiveness doesn't have anything to do with it.

[I got the rope]

OK...I admit I sounded kooky and may have let my machismo run away with me...
some idiot in another thread is driving me crazy about some silver standard for currency at the moment.
My point is that if we can't close the borders with overwhelming force, then we should use overwhelming fear.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

[Living Stone]

I was a self propelled pop-up target (that is an Eleven series MOS for the uninitiated) when I as in the Army, and I can tell you right F****** now this is a terrible mistake.

Those grunts out there depend on that artillery like a newborn depends on its mother.

Nothing good will come of this. I am not knocking the 11chuckles, but one can never have too much firepower at one's disposal.

[fso301]

thirds of its non-divisional (those that that are not part of a combat division) artillery battalions will be converted to other uses (engineers, military police and civil affairs.)

I knew several artillery men. Can't see them ever staying in as supply clerks and MP's. I wouldn't want to trade my 155mm for a 9mm either.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

When was the last time America successfully used overwhelming fear to achieve a desirable outcome? I'm pretty historically-minded, but I can't think of too many such episodes. Sherman's March To The Sea, perhaps. Pershing on Mindanao, maybe.

We are too PC to take scalps, ears or heads anymore.

I sometimes wonder if crucifying road side bombers along the highways where they set off their IED's wouldn't have a salutary effect. But we aren't as hard corps as the Romans.