Ex-Presidents, Johnson Widow Call for JFK Film Probe

AP via TBO ^ | February 2,2004 | Lynn Elber

[Ichneumon]

So Ichy, have you listened to the Milteer tape?

Listened to, no, but I've read the unabridged transcript, which is a lot less interesting than the CT's would have you believe. Details.

Oooh. Ahh. A guy speculated about JFK getting shot from a building. ...in Washington in warm weather maybe by his friend Jack Brown if he ever got a good opportunity, who claimed he tried to shoot MLK, after figuring out which one of JFK's "fifteen doubles" is the real one...

Yeah, baby, there's a guy right in the middle of the conspiracy. Interestingly enough, he says that the way to actually kill JFK would be "from an office building with a high-powered rifle". Hold on, isn't that exactly how the conspiracy folks say JFK *wasn't* actually killed?

Or was he part of the cover story? These conspiracies get *so* convoluted...

[Ichneumon]

What earlobes? Those pictures show no earlobes.

*boggle*

Quick, someone cue the Monty Python "dead parrot" sketch... "No, he's not dead..."

[spodefly]

He was six stories up, but the road was heading down under the railroad, and the vehicle was moving directly away at around 5 MPH or so, so whatever elevation changes or lateral movement was minor for an under 150 yard shot.

I'm not saying he did it (and frankly, I don't care ... this whole issue will never be resolved until all the related docs are released) just that the shot itself doesn't look too difficult, from a marksmanship standpoint. Also, I thought he hit on the first shot in the back, missed the 2nd, and scored a head shot on 3 ... is that not the supposed order?

I visited Dealey once. I went over and stood behind the wall over the "grassy knoll", the position that the conspiracy theory-types think the 'other shots' came from, and from there it would have been a gimme.

My 'expert' qualification is in NRA High Power Rifle competition, so I defer to your expertise from the Corp.

[TexanAmerican]

Most black people in LA think OJ is innocent. But he's not.

\\\\

Actually, most don't care if he's innocent or not. So much more sad.

[_Jim]

There is NO WAY Oswald did that shooting in the manner the Warren Commission claims.

Nuts.

[Terry Mross]

Spector was the one who created the magic bullet theory. He did not "sit" on the Warren Commission.

Ford was the worse president ever. He was Veep and President and was never elected to either office. His crowning achievement was the WIN (Whip Inflation Now) buttons.

[_Jim]

The thread S/N ratio on this subject ALWAYS matchs those of the conspiracy threorists who have NEVER reviewed the history of Oswald nor the material observations of people in the plaza that day nor the physical evidence recovered:

   -20 dB (also known as "twenty dB down") at least (that is, a ratio of .01 to 1).

[Beenliedto]

Oswald got off three shots in five and a half seconds

As if that is difficult! LOL! You've never shot a rifle have you?

Was not Oswald's rifle bolt action? A bit more difficult if it was.

[Terry Mross]

How do you explain that Connelly went to his grave saying he wasn't hit by the first shot? The film shows him turning after the shot was fired. And how do you explain that LBJ was on tape saying it was a conspiracy then called his friend Paley at CBS and had the tape destroyed? Those two things make me question the findings.

Also, most people don't realize that the Z film was not seen by the public until sometime around 1987.

[ladyinred]

Even the house commission on the JFK murder didn't believe the Warren report. It would not surprise me at all to discover LBJ was in on the murder. No one wants the truth out there however.

[Ichneumon]

For the magic bullet to be correct, everyone has to be a liar.

Nope.

The Dealy Plaza witnesses,

The accounts of the Dealy Plaza witnesses are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

the Tippet murder witnesses,

The accounts of the Tippet murder witnesses are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

The Ford glass specialist,

The accounts of Vaughn Ferguson are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

the theater worker,

The accounts of the theater worker are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

the reporters at Parkland,

The accounts of the reporters at Parkland are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

the doctors at Parkland,

The accounts of the doctors at Parkland are consistent with the (non)magic bullet scenario.

Connally and his wife.

Connally admitted not being clear on the sequence, understandable since he went into shock, and said that he relied on his wife's account. Connally's wife was facing forward and had no way of knowing when JFK was first hit relative to her husband. The physical, photographic, and ear/eyewitness accounts trump her presumptions about which shot(s) may have hit JFK -- despite her proximity, she was in a poorer position to view JFK's woundings than other people were.

All these people are liars?

Of course not.

[_Jim]

An "intelligent read" for those who haven't got the time to reseach the JFK assassination themselves:

Why I'm No Longer a Conspiracy Buff

By Michael Beck / January 17, 1998

mcadams.posc.mu.edu/oncebuff.htm

Cutting to the chase - an excerpt of the closing:

The Physical Evidence

I won't spend a lot of time here. The physical evidence all points toward Oswald's guilt. It was his rifle, the ammunition matched his gun, and a photograph of him holding the rifle (backyard photo) and actual fingerprints also tie him to the weapon that he denied even owning. That's pretty open and shut. Other than that, you have his pistol, the match to the primer marks on the discarded .38 cartridges, and his physical location in the Texas Theater. The medical evidence, when analyzed properly, also shows two shots to the back of JFK; one in the back of the head and one in the upper back that punched through his throat. Again, pretty cut and dried. Reading too much into the autopsy report is an interesting mental exercise. However, I tend to believe that the medical experts that examined ALL of this material for the HSCA got it right.

Conclusion

In conclusion, I used to believe in a conspiracy but "reformed" after applying a healthy dose of "common sense" to my beliefs.

My "conversion" resulted from applying the same critical analysis techniques that the "buffs" used to attack the Warren Commission report.

It also involved personal visits to the crime scene (now totaling over 6) and independent research on shooting and ballistics.

It also involved seeing the most vociferous buffs such as Robert Groden, David Lifton, and Oliver Stone for what they are; Hucksters with an Agenda.

I kick myself now for ever believing in them at all.

[#3Fan]

A few people at Dealey were wrong. Most turned toward the TSBD.

Most were closer to the Depository.

A few doctors at Parkland remember incorrectly.

Of course. The most important day in their careers and they imagined giant holes?

Most agree otherwise. Mrs. Connally is no better witness than anyone else at Dealey.

Of course. Why would a person in the car make a good witness? lol

Gov. Connally conceded to Gerald Posner that Posner's recitation of the number and sequence of shots was plausable. And so on.

But you just said witnesses in the car are worthless. Make up your mind.

Most Americans think Oswald didn't act alone because they've seen Oliver Stone's movie and if it is in a movie it must be true. And they don't want to think a single wacko could shoot the President.

I've never seen Stone's movie. Most Americans know Oswald didn't kill Kennedy because the magic bullet theory is ridiculous. The government itself admitted it in the House report and even it's author (Spector) backed away from it.

Most black people in LA think OJ is innocent. But he's not.

They weren't witnesses. You're calling every witness a liar.

[#3Fan]

Those pictures show the same style of earlobe as the autopsy photo shows. You don't want to see them, so you don't. It's really that simple.

You deny the obvious. Kennedy had no earlobes, the corpse does.

[Ichneumon]

this whole issue will never be resolved until all the related docs are released

Actually, "all the related docs" *have* been released. Here's an earlier post of mine on that issue:

The President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (Public Law 102-526) ordered the review and release of pretty much all such records.

For example, if you want to see the 113 records released by the NSA under this act, see NSA JFK documents.

Summaries of the material can be found at the National Archives JFK Assassination Records webpage. The released material consists of more than 4.5 million pages of assassination-related records, photographs, motion pictures, sound recordings and artifacts.

The movie "JFK" by Oliver Stone was a giant load of conspiracy-theory propaganda, but it did serve one useful purpose: The public interest in the JFK assassination it raised, and the stink it made about the remaining unreleased records, lit a fire under Congress and they moved to release the records in 1992.

If you're wondering why you haven't heard of this, it's because the conspiracy theorists seldom talk about it, since the truckload of newly released material *still* fails to support their conspiracy fantasies.

[...]

So what Amazing Revelations were revealed in these documents that the Grand Government Conspiracy had been "hiding" all these years? Nothing, really, which was a great disappointment for those who believed that the Real Story was somehow being concealed in them.

[#3Fan]

That's a full-fledged earlobe. Kennedy had no earlobes.

[Ichneumon]

Most Americans know Oswald didn't kill Kennedy because the magic bullet theory is ridiculous.

No, the "magic bullet theory" as misdescribed (and misnamed) by *conspiracy theorists* is ridiculous. It, however, bears scant resemblance to the actual scenario.

[Ichneumon]

Name your stakes, method of payment & show me your proof. An even thousand be enough?

That'll work. Proof is cited in posts #63 and #127.

You may pay me my thousand dollars by making a donation in that amount to FreeRepublic under my name.

[Ichneumon]

That's a full-fledged earlobe. Kennedy had no earlobes.

....and the other photographs of a living JFK sporting earlobes are...?

Come on, admit it, you're trolling.

[#3Fan]

Continue to deny the obvious but Kennedy had no earlobes. The corpse does. Here's Kennedy earlier that day:

No earlobes.