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Scholars: Crucifixion Portrayal Inaccurate
AP News ^ | Feb 19th,2004 | PETER ENAV

Posted on 02/19/2004 3:40:35 PM PST by missyme

"Critics Never Stop"

JERUSALEM (AP) - The dearth of information about Jesus' crucifixion makes it impossible to describe the event in accurate detail, as Mel Gibson attempts to do in his new film, "The Passion of Christ," Bible scholars and anthropologists say.

The crucifixion is the centerpiece of the movie, set to open in U.S. theaters Feb. 25, Ash Wednesday on the Roman Catholic calendar.

People who have seen the movie say it adopts standard Christian imagery in excruciating detail: Jesus being pinioned to a Latin cross - a T-shaped device with a short upper extension - with one nail driven through both feet and one through each palm.

In a December e-mail sent to The Associated Press, Gibson said he did "an immense amount of reading" to supplement the Bible's relatively unadorned account of the crucifixion in the four Gospels.

"I consulted a huge number of theologians, scholars, priests, spiritual writers," Gibson wrote. "The film is faithful to the Gospels but I had to fill in a lot of details - like the way Jesus would have carried His cross, or whether the nails went through the palms of His hands or his wrists ... Since the experts canceled each other out, I was thrown back on my own resources to weigh the different arguments and decide for myself."

Some scholars say even the most widely recognized features of the crucifixion, such as the shape of the cross and the use of nails, are open to debate.

James F. Strange, professor of religious studies at the University of South Florida in Tampa, said 1st century historian Josephus provided only general information, probably because crucifixion was so common that details seemed superfluous.

Crucifixion was first used in the 5th century B.C., and was a widely used form of execution in Asia, Europe and Africa for the ensuing eight centuries, said Israeli anthropologist Joe Zias. Depending on technique, death could be swift or take days.

"If you suspended people by their hands and left their feet free you would kill them within an hour," Zias said. "If you suspended them in a way they couldn't exhale they'd be dead within minutes."

Zias said the question of whether Jesus was nailed to the cross or simply tied to it remains a mystery. "There is no evidence whatsoever he was nailed," he said. "The Gospels say he was crucified and leave it at that."

Zias criticized "The Passion of Christ" for accepting the standard version of three nails being used. He said experiments on cadavers carried out by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages have shown that people hanging with nails through their hands will fall to the ground within a relatively short time, pulled by gravity.

The Gospels suggest it took Jesus three to six hours to die.

"All this is Crucifixion 101," Zias said. "People who study these things understand them. But Gibson ignored them in his film."

John Dominic Crossan, emeritus professor of religious studies at DePaul University in Chicago, agrees with Zias that little is known about Jesus' execution.

"Early Christians believed that Jesus was nailed to the cross," he said. "But there is absolutely no proof of this. The only skeleton of a crucified person ever recovered indicated that the two arms were tied to a crossbar, and two nails were used in either shinbone. There was no standard procedure in any of this. The only common feature in the different types of crucifixion is intense sadism."

The type of cross in Jesus' execution is also in question, Crossan said. First century Romans are known to have used both a T-shaped device, without an upper extension, and the Latin cross that is standard in Christian iconography.

Each of the four Gospels says an inscription mocking Jesus as the "king of the Jews" was affixed to the cross. Crossan said this would have made sense "because the whole point of crucifixion was to warn people through alluding to a specific crime."

Two of the Gospels say the inscription was mounted above Jesus. This presumably would strengthen the argument for a Latin cross, which would have provided space for writing about the condemned man's head.

However, the other two Gospels don't give a locator. "It (the written warning) could just as easily have hung around his neck," Crossan said.

Crossan is also uncertain whether the cross on which Jesus was crucified was carried to the execution grounds - either by Simon of Cyrene, as three of the Gospels report, or by Jesus himself, according to John's account.

It is possible that the vertical part of the cross was kept at Golgotha, the place of Jesus' death, and that the condemned person carried the crossbar, Crossan said.

"The point is we simply don't know," he said, "not in general cases and not in the case of Jesus either."


TOPICS: Announcements; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: crucifixion; foxmanisascumbag; moviereview; thepassion; toolateabe
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Comment #141 Removed by Moderator

To: ThatsAllFolks2
After all, Mohammad and his disciples have a slightly different view.

Not sure I really care what a child molester and the followers of a 3000 year old tribal moon god think about it. By that premise all of the Bible could be views on history from a different perspective instead of actual history. I'm sure there are some Christ didn't die and raise again from the dead as He promised. That it was just some sort of story

142 posted on 02/20/2004 12:33:35 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice.)
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To: Straight Vermonter
I read in Biblical Archeology Review a few years ago that a grave of a crucified man had been discovered with the remains of a wooden "washer" for exactly the purposed you stated.
143 posted on 02/20/2004 12:36:56 PM PST by redgolum
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To: missyme
"is truly not the killing of Jesus's human body that is the central point of faith it is the resurrection that is the focal point of Christianity."

Then why is 1 1/2 hours of the film concerned with his death and only about 15 seconds with the Resurrection.

By the way, I agree with you.

144 posted on 02/20/2004 12:42:35 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: Godzilla
Wasn't Crossan defrocked for his wierd views on Christianity?

If not, he should have been.
145 posted on 02/20/2004 12:43:40 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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Comment #146 Removed by Moderator

To: GOP_Proud
If you think reading about it is so awful, don't watch the movie - its worse.

If you want to support Gibson, buy the ticket, skip the flick, wait until it comes out on disc, and skip through the worst parts.

That's what I intend to do.
147 posted on 02/20/2004 12:45:56 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
They have recovered skeletal remains of victims who were crucified. They used nails.
148 posted on 02/20/2004 12:47:05 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: sinkspur
What about when Jesus appeared to the doubting Thomas and told him to touch the holes in his hands. Hello?
149 posted on 02/20/2004 12:47:51 PM PST by The Grim Freeper
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To: Walkin Man
Crossan is an idiot. He sees what he wants to see.
150 posted on 02/20/2004 12:48:27 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: Walkin Man
Yikes. I just saw your post. Great minds...
151 posted on 02/20/2004 12:48:39 PM PST by The Grim Freeper
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To: ThatsAllFolks2
Isaiah 53
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Not hung by rope but pierced. The Old Testament provides more than a few prophecies about this

152 posted on 02/20/2004 12:50:07 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice.)
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To: ThatsAllFolks2
They are all messengers of the same god, but have quite different messages

Hmmm, afraid not. Jehovah God is not the same as the god of the Muslims. As much as George Bush may want to believe that, it's not the case

153 posted on 02/20/2004 12:51:25 PM PST by billbears (Deo Vindice.)
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Comment #154 Removed by Moderator

To: Friend of thunder
Cheir
155 posted on 02/20/2004 12:53:02 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: ThatsAllFolks2
Not sure if it means "crushed" in the physical sense...more like the spiritual sense with the weight of the world's sins on His shoulders. Still being beaten to a pulp would be "crushing" or more burden than one could bear.
157 posted on 02/20/2004 12:57:31 PM PST by madison10
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To: missyme
Its important to keep in mind that this movie represents Mel Gibson's interpretation of what happened. Not necessarily what actually occurred.

As anyone who saw "The Patriot" or "Braveheart" knows, Gibson makes films which are riveting and entertaining, but not necessarily historically accurate.

Having seen the outtakes, I noticed a number of historical inaccuracies and improbablities.

Christ probably didn't carry the entire cross. It would take a Charles Atlas - several of them - to lug an entire cross to Golgotha. The Upright portions were always there -like a gallows. The man to be executed carried just the cross-piece - a heavy enough timber, but one well within the realm of possibility.

The nails used to hold a person's arms on the structure were driven through the wrists, NOT through the palms as the film apparently portrays.

Pilate was a Roman Magistrate - a Civilian Official. He probably didn't wear armour, as he wasn't a military man.

The actors apparently are speaking Latin with an Italian accent, as Pilate says "Ecce Homo" and its pronounced by him as "Echay Homo" A Roman of the period would have pronounced it as though it was "Ekkay Homo" The "ch" sound was not found in classical Latin. It crept into the pronounciation of Ecclesiatical or Church Latin in the Middle Ages.

The soldiers portrayed escorting Christ in the film are carrying pila. The Pilum was a throwing weapon designed for field combat, not guard duty. The head of the pilum was made of hardened metal and the metal shaft below it, joining it to the main wooden portion, was NOT hardened. The purpose of this was to cause the pilum shaft to bend upon striking an enemy shield, armour, or the ground, so it couldn't be thrown back at the Roman forces. Thus it made a poor thrusting weapon, which was what a soldier on guard duty needed. More probably Roman guards or sentries used a lancea or hasta - a more typical spear or lance-like weapon designed for stabbing, not throwing.

When you see the film, notiuce if the "v" in Latin was pronounced like our "v". If so, that's another error. "V" in classical Latin was pronounced like our "w".

Finally, note if the soldiers on guard duty have a scutum - the characteristic rectangular shield used by the Romans. If they do, tht's probably another inaccuracy. Roman soldiers were not allowed to used scuta on guard duty. They had a habit of using them to prop themselves up and then fall asleep.

Finally, I can't recall reading about a snake in the Gospels, that was back in Genesis.

Gibson, as he admits, is not a historian, but there are enough Roman History buffs and Classical scholars out there he could have consulted, unless, as with the red-coated Tarletons' legions in the Patriot instead of the correct green coated troops, he was using artistic license, although I can't understand why here.

Finally, from what I saw of the film, it appeared to be REALLY violent and brutal and bloody, not that the event was not, but the degree of detail seemed to me to be excessively brutal.
158 posted on 02/20/2004 12:58:42 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: ThatsAllFolks2
He was crushed under the load of our sin. As some of the earlier posters pointed out, crucifixion meant a slow, agonizing death by exposure, dehydration, blood loss, and suffocation. Jesus died in about 6 hours. One poster states that his quick death was a result of the flogging. It's possible, I guess. My opinion is that if you assume sin is a corrupting and destroying influence, the load of every person's sin hastened the death of Jesus who was both True God and True Man. The sin hastened his demise, and threfore removed the need for breaking his legs, which would move the death along. His legs weren't broken which is also prophesied, in Isaiah, I think. It mentions that "not one of His bones will be broken." I think this corresponds to the Jewish traditions and laws surrounding Passover. The Passover lamb's bones were not to be broken or cut for the marrow.
159 posted on 02/20/2004 1:04:17 PM PST by the lone haranguer
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator


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