Killing germs, reducing waste, making oil: TDP might be the next big thing

USA Today ^ | 1/22/2004 | Andrew Kantor

[grundle]

This was going to be a column about oil. Instead, it's also about disease, poison, and a cool way to get rid of both. Actually, it's about a new technology — a new process that is going to make a Difference. One that's going to change things, and one you're going to be hearing a lot more about.

[grundle]

After you have read the above article, if you want a really, really good laugh, read this:

http://tinyurl.com/3yt7q

[grundle]

I thought you might like to see this.

[Richard-SIA]

Interesting, but flawed.

American beef have not been "cannibal" for several years as it has been illegal to use bio-products in cattle feed at least that long.

Fairly light treatment of the subject, much better post have appeared here in the past.

[stylin_geek]

Link to company web site.

[Our man in washington]

Oh man, that link was great. The link goes to a DU forum where their discussing the peaking of oil production and how it will destroy the world.

Here was the most eye-popping post. One person responded:

"If the information I have today had been a blip on my radar screen 15 years ago, I never would have made the decision to have children. Never.

Not only would I have understood the dire importance of reproductive responsibility in the face of such a crisis, I would not have knowingly inflicted such a potentially wretched future on my own children. I thought I was being responsible when I made the decision to have only
two children. Your responsibility [to have no children] is certainly appreciated."

Man, I hope this person's kids never got to see this. Can you imagine if you knew that your parents wished you had never been born?

[TLOne]

TDP is good if it's supported by liberal rats. If supported by conservatives then it's Doomed, DOOMED.

[Waco]

How much energy goes into the "thermal" part of this process,,,where does it come from?

[GOPJ]

bump

[Weirdad]

The key question!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

fyi

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[TheLion]

This process was in last May's (2003) Discover Magazine. I think the title was something like "Anything into oil". I remember it well because I was curious about where to buy the stock after reading the article.

They quoted $10 per barrel to start off. There were 3 bi-products of the proscess...oil was one. All were relatively ,harmless.

Anything but radioactive elements can be broken down. Pretty amazing. You will need to read the article, as I don't remember the details.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Hazardous chemical elements (mercury, arsenic, lead, etc.) won't be eliminated by this process. It's not just the radioactive stuff. The pollution issues are similar to those of incineration of waste for energy.

[nightdriver]

"Specifically, TDP turns just about anything into oil and fertilizer. And when I say "anything," I mean that: animal waste, medical waste, human waste. Used diapers, used computers, used tires. Anything that's not radioactive can be tossed into the hopper."

So "anything" can be Thermally De-Polymerized? Sure would like to see it try to de-polymerize a thermosetting resin like the old phenol-formaldehydes. They are so stable that they can be buried in the earth for years without any degradation at all.

I.E., I'll believe it when I see it. You will notice that the author of this article goes flying off the handle, talking about how we won't need to import any more oil, and he has no knowledge at all about how this process works.

Typical liberal. Both feet firmly planted in the air!

[Mudcat]

As an executive in the waste management business, I can't put it any more simply than this: snake oil!

Looks like some poor hapless reporter with a deadline to make and no time for research got sucked into a scam that's been ongoing for over 30 years. Whether it's called plasma arc technology, laser incineration, or TDP, it's claptrap nonsense intended to scare the ignorant and generate expensive gov't funded studies.

[TheLion]

"Hazardous chemical elements (mercury, arsenic, lead, etc.) won't be eliminated by this process. It's not just the radioactive stuff"

You may be right but that is not what I remember reading. I'll try to find the article and get back to you.

[norraad]

It's still young & undeveloped, like the oil industry was over a hundred years ago when they threw gasoline away as a waste product of making lamp oil.

When they wake up to using higher pressure with catalytic isomerization among other processes, the sky's the limit.

[Carry_Okie]

A word of caution about bio-diesel. You will recall the way MTBE resulted in an 85% increase in asthma cases. Dr. Peter Joseph, a leader in the fight against MTBE and in the study of its impact on respiratory ailments, believes that the culprit may have been methyl nitrate, a byproduct of the combustion of MTBE. He believes that there is good reason to suspect that combustion of bio-diesel will also produce methyl nitrate.

If anything appears to be too good to be true, it probably is.

[TheLion]

I think they might be trying all kinds of things with this process. It's one problem, is that it just sounds too good to be true. That will make many turn away and not go any further.

I predict someone will be paying for our garbage or at least hauling it away for free. if and when, this gets going bigtime.

The article "Anything into oil" is over at Discover.com but you need to be a subscriber or pay for the article.

[Husker24]

I could see animal waste, but how do you turn a computer into oil?

[Husker24]

If it really could produce as much oil as it says, then it should become self sufficiant after a short while.

[norraad]

Yeah, I understand, I also understand industrial chemical processing is futurizing by leaps & bounds beyond what the old fogies thought was possible.

It's very exciting & I wish them good luck.

[Zeroisanumber]

Hmmmmm....Gonna run this by the local Chemistry brain, see what he thinks.

[JosephW]

There was an article on this about a year ago posted here on FR. The system is only about 50-70% efficient. However we're talking trash here. If 30-50% is used to generate the power and 50-70% become oil (and other materials), do we really care about the lost 30-50%?

It's not a free lunch, but the cost is something we want to get rid of anyway. It would be a good deal if it was on 20% efficient.

[Bobber58]

Kantor of USA today on TDP(link to Discover article in PDF)

[leadpenny]

I wish that person had decided to not have children also.

[wita]

I saved the one you remember reading, remarking that time would tell if this was an inefficient source or, if it was a technology before it's time. Hype does not overcome reality. This is the first article on the subject that I've seen since the first one, and it remains to be seen what sort of technology this is. The first article even went so far as to say the facility itself was not very expensive to build, or would be recouped easily by profit of production.
So, one article every six or eight months to describe a miracle. I'm waiting.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!

[Wonder Warthog]

"Dioxins and PCBs are two particularly nasty kinds of chemical. Right now, we don't really dispose of what we make; we burn or bury it, which means it ends up forgotten but not gone."

This article has more inaccuracies per square inch than any "science" article I have seen in quite a while. The sentence above is just one example. Sorry, Mr. Kantor, but properly burning dioxins and PCB's DOES destroy them, and they are indeed GONE.

This isn't to say the TDP is not a good idea, but, please, folks, lets not let the hyperbole get out of hand.

[laredo44]

I wish that person had decided to not have children also.

The real shame is his/her parents didn't make the decision not to have children. Then this poor soul wouldn't be spending his/her adulthood regretting his/her children. Can anything be worse?

[G.Mason]

Good Sunday morning laugh.

I did the same thing with coal, a few years back. Now I have all the diamonds I will ever need.

And no, you can't have any

[grundle]

The original article from last year should be able to answer your questions:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/897232/posts

[DuncanWaring]

The article "Anything into oil" is over at Discover.com but you need to be a subscriber or pay for the article.

Here's another article that looks very much like the original "Discover" article".

Here's an old FR thread discussing it at the time the article originally came out.

For more, search on titles containg both the words "turkey" and "oil".

[Jimbaugh]

WOW !

[Gritty]

The article "Anything into oil" is over at Discover.com but you need to be a subscriber or pay for the article.

Here's an old link to the same article posted on FR... Anything Into Oil

[XBob]

Apparently the Conagra Turkey processing plant was to be on line about the end of July, last year. And there is no word anywhere I can seem to find out about it since then, except some management changes at its process developer's company in February.

Strange - perhaps it is going the way of the Fish carbuerator.

From all kinds of anticipation, to not even a mention or link between Conagra and Carthage on the web.

[TheLion]

"The only thing this process can't handle is nuclear waste," says Appel. "If it contains carbon we can do it."

http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/footnmouth/zwaste2.html

[HiTech RedNeck]

Oh, that pesky periodic table. Oil is carbon and hydrogen. Lotsa other elements to deal with, and for that matter a dearth of hydrogen to go with all the carbon.

[TheLion]

Thanks for the link. The posts were interesting to read!

[TheLion]

Thanks for the links. Lots of interesting reading! Looks like they kept this private to prevent take-overs. Too bad we can't invest in it.

I have yet to find any downside outside of man-made regulations and wacko groups who may not approve of it.

Oil companies don't need to fear it because they can buy the oil cheap.

Waste disposal companies can sell them waste to go though the process. Companies that have waste will gladly give it to these guys rather than paying a fortune to dispose of it.

[TheLion]

"So, one article every six or eight months to describe a miracle. I'm waiting"

Hope you will read all the links posted on this thread. I think this process is a certified winner!