Republican Congressman Kolbe - "Gay Marriage...its time has come"

03/05/04 | sasafras

[sasafras]

Republican Congressman Jim Kolbe (Arizona) just announced that gay marriage (in opposition to the laws)is something whos "time is come" and compared the civil disobediance of gay couples getting married to the civil rights struggles of African-Americans. He went on to state that (paraphrase) 'gay marriage will be considered normal in a few years'. I heard it straight from his own lips at a meeting with him today.

[Don Joe]

I will give people a pass on "born this way" as long as they are not infringing on other people. A "born this way" killer does not have the right to kill other people. A "born this way" alchoholic may have the right to drink himself to a stupor inside his own home, but has no right to go driving. I think gay sex in your own home gets a pass from me.

"'Gay' sex in their own home" isn't the issue. It's a strawman. They have that, they've had it for years.

The issue isn't anything in "their" home. It's "'gay' sex" in your/I> schools, rammed down your children's throats. In your churches, rammed down your throats. And, of course, in every other avenue of the public sphere. That's 1.7% of the population, comprised of people afflicted with a sexual deviant behavior, demanding to have the deciding vote in pretty much every aspect of public and private life in this country.

If you don't see that, then just say so, and I'll leave you to your... whatever.

[Don Joe]

Argh, the Revenge of the Lost Caret. Let's try that paragraph again, with the missing caret:

The issue isn't anything in "their" home. It's "'gay' sex" in your schools, rammed down your children's throats. In your churches, rammed down your throats. And, of course, in every other avenue of the public sphere. That's 1.7% of the population, comprised of people afflicted with a sexual deviant behavior, demanding to have the deciding vote in pretty much every aspect of public and private life in this country.

[Puppage]

They do have segregated bars

I wouldn't call them segregated......those bars are there by choice. Their choice.

[Abram]

Intolerance is an ugly thing.

[Abram]

Thanks for the support. It is too bad when there is open, honest conversations, people feel insecure and start to throw accusations and resort to petty name-calling. I try to rise above those accusations, but sometimes, I find myself resorting to that frenzy.

I find it interesting how many people try to pick and choose what things to fight over. Jim is a good man and has a really good heart. I hate to see him torn apart because of some lifestyle choices. Okay, I don't agree with them, but it doesn't mean I won't be his friend or support him politically.

I quote a poster on DU when referring to FR "I love it when they eat their young". That has stuck in my mind for several years. I get a good gauge of the left by reading their dribble. Readers: NO I AM NOT A TROLL...Look at my profile before you accuse.

[sasafras]

"I've met Kolbe too. He is a thoughtful, kind, honest, considerate guy. Except for the fact that he is gay and for gay marriage, you would probably agree with him on almost everything else."


I would have to diagree with you on that - I do not support Kolbe's pro-abortion and pro-illegal alien stances as well.

[dsc]

"Intolerance is an ugly thing."

Is it? Let's see:

Intolerance of slavery is an ugly thing.
Intolerance of cannibalism is an ugly thing.
Intolerance of sex with children is an ugly thing.
Intolerance of rape is an ugly thing.
Intolerance of extortion is an ugly thing.
Intolerance of bribery is an ugly thing.

Looks to me like any virtue in tolerance derives from the thing being tolerated...or not tolerated.

But that's beside the point. You're not asking for tolerance. You're demanding that a destructive and dangerous mental disorder be pronounced a healthy and desirable condition.

That, of course, would have the effect of giving those who suffer from that disorder--same sex attraction disorder--the one thing they should never have: access to adolescents and children.

It just doesn't get any uglier than that, Jackson.

[truthandjustice1]

Intolerance is an ugly thing.

Intolerance is a code word for accepting someone elses pervert behavior.

[BSunday]

Not unexpected. Kolbe is gay.

What ??? Kobe is gay ???? Oh....ooops, never mind.

[Abram]

maybe so, but intolerance caused atrocities throughout history such as, but not limited to:

The Killing Fields: Cambodia
Mass Graves of Kurds: Iraq
Slavery: Everywhere
Japanese-Americans WWII: US
Nazi Germany and the Concentration Camps: Europe WWII
Mass Graves: Bosnia
Kashmir Bombings: India
Church Bombings: Pakistan, US
9-11: US
Mormons driven out of NY, OH, MO, IL: US

Lots of examples of intolerance. I love humanity and many on this board profess to love the Lord: Then follow the Lord's greatest commandments: Love the Lord with all your heart, mind and strength and love they neighbor as theyself.

Homosexuals need our love. We don't need to accept everything they are doing, but we need to be tolerant of their views.

[Abram]

I am not your traditional member. I am a convert and a legal immigrant who has experienced intolerance and racism first hand. I tend to have a very open mind and strive to be very accepting of other people's views.

Senator Harry Reid is LDS a former bishop and he is one of the most liberal Senators and supports many "liberal" issues. I find myself agreeing with him maybe 25% of the time.

Gov. Mitt Romney is LDS and has also taken some moderate stances.

Senator Gordon Smith is also LDS and he too has taken some more moderate stances.

LDS members support a wide range of ideologies. My ward is very liberal as it is in the trenches of Seattle. We have lawyers, doctors, professors, and teachers as well as union/blue-collar workers making up its composition. I would probably venture to say that maybe 20-30% are openly Democrat. Many of the Republicans are probably of the strain of moderate-social issues/conservative fiscal issues. The rest are the traditional Idaho/Utah type conservatives. Outside the core Mormon areas of Idaho, Montana, Utah, Arizona and Nevada...members of the LDS church differ greatly. Core areas have their maverick types, but they are generally not as moderate/liberal as some of us...and I am a conservative Republican (fairly partisan).

[Iron Matron]

Thanks for proving the argument and illustrating the need for equal access.


I'm not sure what you mean, but let me clarify what I mean.

Homosexuals are not people that my God wants me to tolerate or hang out with - I'm not saying I do not sin, I AM saying that homosexuals are Unrepentant sinners, and Christians are not supposed to hang out with Unrepentant sinners.

- I will not lie about this just to be "politically Correct" - PC is what has brought us to this point in the first place.

Homosexuals SHOULD be discriminated against (I'm NOT saying "bashing" or "beating" them is OK), and they would be in a moral society.

[Iron Matron]

One of the most damaging strategies in this debate is the quoting of scriptures in any form

But..But...Marriage is a Holy Sacrement instituted by GOD HIMSELF! Thats where we got marriage.

[WOSG]

a phrase jumped in my mind ... "Living in sin" ??

[Spiff]

I can name a number of LDS people who are astray on several issues. That doesn't make them or their views right.

When President Packer states three times in as many weeks that we are living in a time worse than Sodom and Gomorrah, do you think he's talking about Bush's tax cuts or the in your face gay agenda which threatens marriage and the family? Do you think he's talking about the U.S. sending troops to fight the global war on terror or about the bloody sacrifice to Baal or some other stupid god (convenience, promiscuous sex without consequence, career, take your pick) of a quarter of our unborn babies? Both the gay agenda and unfettered abortion are key criteria for being a Democrat, a liberal, or even a so-called "moderate" in the GOP. I can't comprehend how someone can hold such views and call themselves LDS. And don't get me started on the teachings of Ezra Taft Benson about socialism and legal plunder and the current wealth redistribution schemes promoted by Democrats, liberals, and so-called "moderates".

How many ways can the scriptures tell you that this stuff "cometh of evil" until you get it? You preach "tolerance" here. Yet what you're really asking is that we tolerate evil. I will not.

[Spiff]

ping

[Spiff]

"I would like to make it clear that forgiveness of sins should not be confused with tolerating evil. In fact, the Lord said, “Judge righteous judgment.” The Savior asks us to forsake and combat evil in all its forms, and although we must forgive a neighbor who injures us, we should still work constructively to prevent that injury from being repeated." - Elder David E. Sorensen of the Presidency of the Seventy, April 2003 General Conference

[Spiff]

Homosexuals need our love.

Correct.

We don't need to accept everything they are doing, but we need to be tolerant of their views.

Wrong. We do not need to be tolerant of evil. We should not be tolerant of evil. We can tolerate a person who suffers from a disorder which compels them to engage immoral behavior, but we should not tolerate the acts themselves nor the views which pretend that the acts are acceptable in any way, shape, or form. There is a difference. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Love the sinner, hate the views which pretend the sin is not a sin. We do not show love to anyone if we pretend that their abhorrant, immoral behavior is in any way acceptable. Instead we are enabler to their spiritual destruction.

[Abram]

So you would use condone the actions of the Missouri mobs: Drive them from the state???? We don't like them, trust them, we cannot co-exist so therefore, we can act like heathens and degrade them or tear them down. No, repentence is found a change of heart, done on an individual basis. Teach them one by one, using the scriptures and the Holy Ghost. Many on this board would condemn me for my LDS beliefs long before they know me or know where I am coming from.
In El Salvador, my native land, you were guilty by association...if you had a cousin, aunt, friend of a friend that was a communist, you could be killed for merely existing. Is that right?

Let them live in their own individual Sodom's and Gomorrohas, but make our homes a temple on earth. Love them, pray for them, teach them, accept them as Children of God, but accepting them does not mean that you condone their actions, but rather it provides for an opportunity to "see the light".

Sorry, I did not intend this original post to be a discussion of religious views. I try to keep my religious views seperate from my religious views...I strive to be the ultimate social liberterian...but sometimes I stray.

[Spiff]

So you would use condone the actions of the Missouri mobs: Drive them from the state???? We don't like them, trust them, we cannot co-exist so therefore, we can act like heathens and degrade them or tear them down. No, repentence is found a change of heart, done on an individual basis. Teach them one by one, using the scriptures and the Holy Ghost. Many on this board would condemn me for my LDS beliefs long before they know me or know where I am coming from. In El Salvador, my native land, you were guilty by association...if you had a cousin, aunt, friend of a friend that was a communist, you could be killed for merely existing. Is that right?

I never said any of that. Nothing I said can be logically or reasonably construed as having said any of that.

Let them live in their own individual Sodom's and Gomorrohas, but make our homes a temple on earth. Love them, pray for them, teach them, accept them as Children of God, but accepting them does not mean that you condone their actions, but rather it provides for an opportunity to "see the light".

Again, you're right. However, you said that we should "accept their ideas." No, we should not. Their ideas are wrong and immoral and should be decried as such. Same with their behavior. Love them, but don't accept their evil, don't compromise or negotiate with their evil, don't tolerate their evil.

Sorry, I did not intend this original post to be a discussion of religious views. I try to keep my religious views seperate from my religious views...I strive to be the ultimate social liberterian...but sometimes I stray.

So, you wish to save yourself and your family but the rest of our culture and society can go to hell? That's what "social libertarian" means. History has taught you nothing about societal decay, cultural erosion, and the suffering that comes with a fallen civilization? I do not wish to see 1.5 million unborn children to suffer the barbarity of our sickened society. I do not want to witness the misery that will come to our civilization as its core element - the family - is redefined down and then destroyed. I do not wish to be present as freedom is replaced by license as the Judeo-Christian culture which is responsible for the freedom and prosperity of this nation is replaced with the same culture which lead to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

You may have intellectually removed yourself from the fray, rationalized a neutral, so-called "social libertarian" stance. I refuse. History and scripture have taught us the consequences of the behavior and apathy towards it that we are seeing today.