Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Offshoring and Lowered Expectations
Computerworld ^ | March 8, 2004 | Dan Gillmor

Posted on 03/08/2004 3:14:41 PM PST by Mini-14

MARCH 08, 2004 - One of the best things about living and working in Silicon Valley is the quality of the people. I'm frequently the least-knowledgeable person in the

room, and probably the stupidest. I get to learn from the ultrasmart and creative folks I meet.

So why do I have an uneasy feeling these days about the place, even as an economic recovery for the technology industry starts to gather steam?

One factor abounds with irony. A few years ago, I wondered if the Valley was sowing the seeds of its demise by creating the communications and collaboration tools that would make it much less necessary to be there in a physical sense. The near-unanimous consensus at the time among the top people in the field was that the Valley had nothing to worry about.

I never entirely bought their faith, though the Valley has repeatedly shown an ability to rebound to new heights after deep economic downturns. The recent evidence, notably the surge of offshoring, makes me ask again -- about the Valley and the entire nation.

And I wonder if something is genuinely different now.

Intel CEO Craig Barrett put his finger on it a few weeks ago when he stopped by my newspaper for a long chat with some reporters and editors. What's new this time, he told us in a persuasive way, is the nature of the global workforce.

For the first time in human history, Barrett said, a truly gigantic pool of well-educated, technically adept and eager-to-please labor is being created. This pool of talent, which will include hundreds of millions of people in China and India (many of whom speak English fluently), has another characteristic: a willingness to work for a fraction of what Americans expect.

This is not because they like living poorly. It's because local conditions and currency exchange rates make what would seem like a pauper's salary here a highly attractive one there.

The U.S. largely came to grips with a similar crisis in low-end manufacturing. We moved up the value chain as a society, painful as this was for the less-educated, hardworking people who lost middle-class jobs and had to settle for lower-paid service employment.

How high can we move on the value chain now?

I travel widely. One thing I know for sure is that Silicon Valley and the U.S. have no monopoly on brains or energy. We do have an advantage in promoting a culture of risk, of entrepreneurialism. But other places are beginning to adopt even that value, too.

The spectacle of politicians promoting trade wars in the name of stemming job losses is disturbing, if understandable. I wish they'd devote that energy to telling the harder truth: that the U.S. will need to buckle down in unprecedented ways, with vast new investments in education and infrastructure, plus a new commitment to the best aspects of entrepreneurialism.

We may be facing big trouble in the near term, no matter what we do. That's the kind of news few politicians dare deliver.

Barrett, running for no office, offered a hard truth. As he gave his litany of why conditions truly are different this time, we asked if this suggested a generation of lowered expectations in the U.S. "It's tough to come to another conclusion than that," he replied.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: employment; h1b; l1; offshore; outsourcing; trade; unemployment
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-151 next last
To: citizen
Add up the total of all CEO salaries.

Now reduce them to zero.

How much impact would that be compared with, say, cutting the TSA budget for wanding grandma at the aurport by 10%?

Government is the multi-trillion dollar elephant in the room. You could pay 1000 A-Rods or 1000 Tyco CEOs with what the government pisses down the toilet before lunch every day.

Sure, Tyco and Worldcom and Martha Stewart are insulting. But the big fat target is where our tax dollars are chewed up.
41 posted on 03/08/2004 4:57:55 PM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: templar
They believe they will get what they want and no one, no nation, can stop them. They may well be right.

They will not get it. They - or their children - will be shot in the street. If not by an american partisan then by a Chinese soldier.

I really think one of the main drivers here is that baby boomers are now in senior management. We are talking about perhaps the most selfish and foolish generation is world history, certianly the in American history (I am a boomer BTW.) They are in for a shock or two when they find out that 1) The National state is not just an abstraction, and 2) there is more to the human than brute appetite. What a bunch of arrogant, blind fools.

42 posted on 03/08/2004 4:59:56 PM PST by CasearianDaoist ((Nuance THIS!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
They [Dims] will unionize every job in the country.

That vision could be a plus if the 'offsourcing' debate could be shaped correctly:

1) Make Main Street America aware of US corporations love for outsourcing/offshoring Amreican jobs and the ruinous result for many families. If this is done then the...
2) Republicans take the lead with proposals [less onerous regs & taxes, tort reform, specilized 'trade school' type schools for many needed skills (forget the liberal arts degree), STOP transfering technology overseas, help me with more] to allow American corporations to remain competitive without resorting to offsourcing.
3) Make the political point you correctly made: The Dims answer is protectionism & unionize all American jobs, thereby rendering us utterly helpless VS the world labor market.

We'd have to survive the 04 elections and then have a go at such a course of action for the 06 & 08 elections.

43 posted on 03/08/2004 5:00:50 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
Cutting off India and China isn't feasible without cooperation from the rest of the G-7. The Europeans and Japanese have plenty of advanced technology and capital.
44 posted on 03/08/2004 5:02:43 PM PST by Filibuster_60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: AZLiberty
200 years ago, wealth creation was clearing a plot of land...
Your poem is misleading - wealth has been created 200 years ago, and has been created today, in a plehora of industries and sectors, not just the 4 you mention.

...but more important the market needs to figure out the meaning of wealth for the next generation.
No, not wealth (I think we all know what that is) - how to create wealth. How to add value. What people want and will pay for. Hint - food is a good example.

45 posted on 03/08/2004 5:07:14 PM PST by searchandrecovery (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
You know what the real problem is? The "lemming" phenonmenon: most people (no matter what race, ethnicity, religion) anywhere simply don't have the mental flexibility to see beyond their immediate situation. Even if what you say is true, most Americans haven't quite grasped there's a corporatist conspiracy to equalize the world and render nation-states obsolete. Too many Americans are still under the illusion that voting for Bush is substantially different from voting for Kerry - we see evidence of that right here on FR with its legion of Bushbots. Our electoral system simply doesn't allow for third-party challenges. We're reduced to voting for the lesser of 2 evils election after election. It's no longer a question of what direction we move in - it's how fast we move down that path.
46 posted on 03/08/2004 5:08:57 PM PST by Filibuster_60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: AZLiberty
With all due respect, what you say is absolute nonsense.

A country that does not grow its own food can not be free. A country that cannot make its own goods and services cannot be free. A country that cannot create its own science and technology cannot be free.

And none of the things you have mentioned are "free," roughly or other wise-they are quite dear. What an absurd thing to say. Economies have three layers: Agriculture and commodities, manufacture and lastly services (of wich technology is a part.) Wealth is about creating value. Trade is about moving value around. We have not redefined wealth creation with each generation, we have merely made more efficient the different sectors. You cannot eat a computer chip. And with outsourcing you are not creating a new model for wealth, you are just strip mining the middle class in this country.It is trade, not wealth creation. When it is gone there will be nothing here, and beleive me these american companies will not get this vast Chinese market they are talking about. The Chinese will not allow it.

47 posted on 03/08/2004 5:14:18 PM PST by CasearianDaoist ((Nuance THIS!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: AZLiberty
Yes, we have to figure out how to earn the relatively little money needed nowadays to live reasonably well

Reducing tax and regulatory costs would go a looong way to putting a comfortable life within more people's reach.

48 posted on 03/08/2004 5:17:37 PM PST by eno_ (Freedom Lite - it's almost worth defending)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
...these american companies will not get this vast Chinese market they are talking about.
Maybe, maybe not. But U.S. companies currently sell products in India.

At some point China will realize it can't produce everything.

49 posted on 03/08/2004 5:24:21 PM PST by searchandrecovery (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Filibuster_60
Nonsense, We have already deal with Japan and technology, they do not have the structural depth from the technical side, outsourcing will destroy them. And the EU is facing a similar problem from the social side, they also do not have the research depth.

But as I say, they would all follow us in a heartbeat, and if they do not slap a tariff on them. Raise our technology so high in this country that it out paces them. For instance, finally tackle software automation. Of course it is feasible. Just stop using economic policy to implement foreign policy and see economic policy as part of national security policy. What are they going to do, bleed out their own national economies to China? they all have export driven economies, and heavily protected ones at that. China and India will not let them into their markets unless there is tech transfer, and CHina will never let anyone but Chinese companies get that "vast Chinese market," they are just kidding themselves. Let the rest of the G7 bleed themselves dry. We will puzh ahead in tech ourselves and by the time china and India have sucked the G7 dry we will be decades beyond the Chinese. The trick here is to understand that Tech in not an industry in and of its selve but a supporting service. This is one reason that Bush's DOE and NASA strategies are actually pretty sound, thought I do not think that he sees things as I do.

50 posted on 03/08/2004 5:28:21 PM PST by CasearianDaoist ((Nuance THIS!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: searchandrecovery
You do not know much about software development in this day and age.
51 posted on 03/08/2004 5:30:02 PM PST by CasearianDaoist ((Nuance THIS!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: eno_
Ok, pal, I'll agree with you that the Gub'mint is the real biggie. But consider....

I can't dismiss as insignificant the cumulative top-heavy salaries and stock options and expence accounts, etc. for corporate America's ruling class:

CEOs, CFOs: 9 and 8 figure "salaries" + options/perks
Gaggles of board members and the like: 8 and 7 figure salaries + options/perks
Hoards of lesser corporate baggage, markerters, lawyers by the millions: 7 figure salaries + options/perks
God only know how many 6 figure salaries + options/perks
All manner of other wasteful spending and pocket lining
And that's just the legal stuff, add in $billions more for Enron, Tyco, Global Crossing and their crooked accounting firms.....this happens in thousands of American corporations to one extent ot another.

ALL ADDING to the "cost" of the American business' competing against the world market. This is a staggering burden for a free market system to bear. I agree with the top people being well paid but too much is too much.

52 posted on 03/08/2004 5:36:25 PM PST by citizen (Write-in Tom Tancredo President 2004!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: searchandrecovery
That is not the point. Upscale value added product of the West are only tolerated until the tech transfer is complete. I am not talking about soft drinks. They are fighting economic war with us. The multinationals are kidding themselves - they are not "developing a market" but making a short term profit to create a competitor, these vast markets will not appear, not for them at least. It is the height of stupidity. These nations will protect their markets. cut them off from tech transfer and outsourcing. Keep leadship of technology and science and ,ake the, move here if they want to be on the edge. outsourving and tech transfer is suicide. It is just common sense.
53 posted on 03/08/2004 5:37:23 PM PST by CasearianDaoist ((Nuance THIS!))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
You do not know much about software development in this day and age.

You must be kidding. Indefensible on so many levels. You don't konw me, how could you say such a thing? Ha! I was a software developer for at least 22 years. At the end a lot of unix gui work (motif/Xt/X11 if you will). Big companies and small companies. I have a clue about software. I don't think you have a clue about wealth creation.

54 posted on 03/08/2004 5:43:44 PM PST by searchandrecovery (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
For even a pessimist like yourself, you obviously don't realize the extent to which our economic/scientific domination has been undercut in the last generation. In many sectors the Europeans and Japanese are already ahead of us - civilian nuclear power, advanced meteorological instruments and next-generation wireless being just a few examples. Even worse, we're far more dependent on foreign scientific talent than either Japan or EU - less than 1/4 of all doctorates in science and engineering now go to native-born Americans. We are easily the largest debtor nation among the G-7.

If you wanna fix the problem, the first step is to acknowledge how far we've already sunk. . . I'm afraid it's much worse than you think.
55 posted on 03/08/2004 5:47:27 PM PST by Filibuster_60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: citizen
Some lawmakers, mostly dems, say they will do something about the problem. Most of the companies you discuss were enabled to become the monoliths they are now by the democrats during Clinton's presidency. Don't you worry then the democrats create a crisis, then they are the only ones to have a solution? I believe the republicans can find a solution as well, but they aren't trying.


US Democratic Senator Christopher Dodd. Outsourcing has become a hot-button political issue as a new push for legislation to halt the offshore jobs exodus is countered by an aggressive business campaign arguing the effort will backfire.(AFP/Pool/File/Ahmad Masood)
56 posted on 03/08/2004 5:47:52 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: CasearianDaoist
These nations will protect their markets. cut them off from tech transfer and outsourcing.
Well, they (China, Japan(?)) seem to be protecting their markets. This is becoming a political issue - we're (U.S.) losing jobs and they have closed markets. I think it comes down to the seemingly bad trade agreements the U.S. has cut with other countries. This could change over time.

Keep leadship of technology and science and ,ake the, move here if they want to be on the edge. outsourving and tech transfer is suicide.
Science and Technology depend on really smart, passionate people, educated at the best universities. At least for now, the U.S. has the best grad & post-grad programs. Also, scientists seem to be kind of a-political, if you will. More interested in that whole truth thing. I believe if there's one area that the freakin' "governments" of the world haven't figured out yet, is how to contain scientists. Where can you make the most money (and fame) with your idea - the U.S. (or Sweden, Japan, India) or China?

57 posted on 03/08/2004 5:54:19 PM PST by searchandrecovery (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: Filibuster_60
I'm afraid it's much worse than you think.

Why does it matter if Phd's are from America or not - they work for the highest bidder. Corporations don't care where the talent comes from.

58 posted on 03/08/2004 6:03:13 PM PST by searchandrecovery (This tagline intentionally left blank.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: searchandrecovery; CasearianDaoist
I've read that by 2020 as much as 90% of the world's R&D staff will be of East and South Asian ancestry, with Chinese and Indians dominant. How do we cope with this? The fix is already in - it started 60 years ago when we foolishly shelled out billions of dollars to rebuild Europe and Japan, creating economic competitors that are now alternative technology sources for developing countries. Maybe we should've applied the Morgenthau Plan after all.

Reread the article. Trying to stop technology proliferation these days is like shutting the barn door after all the animals have fled. The Internet alone has revolutionized the way knowledge is transferred.
59 posted on 03/08/2004 6:08:26 PM PST by Filibuster_60
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: citizen
We can't cut taxes,because if we do we will start a trade war with the EU. Is it correct for a foreign trading organization to control how and which of our citizens are taxed? This is all part and parcel of the trade agreements and the taxpayer insured funds that promote off shore businesses. Free trade is not free for the United States,it is a costly costly boondoggle.


European Union (news - web sites) Trade Commissioner Pascal Lamy speaks during a news conference in Montevideo, Uruguay, in this Dec. 15, 2003, file photo. The European Union escalated a trade dispute with the United States over export subsidies Monday, March 1, 2004, by imposing sanctions on U.S. jewelry, textiles and other goods which could reach some $300 million this year and double that in 2005. Lamy insisted the sanctions would immediately be ended once Washington repeals legislation giving tax breaks to major exporters which was ruled illegal by the World Trade Organization (news - web sites) two years ago. (AP Photo/Luis Alonso, File)
60 posted on 03/08/2004 6:09:02 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-151 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson