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TWO WITNESSES COULD END KERRY PRESIDENTIAL RUN -- "The Phoenix Project"
various sources | 3-12-04 | dfu

Posted on 03/12/2004 10:32:07 AM PST by doug from upland

THOMAS LIPSCOMB STORY

Reporter Thomas Lipscomb wrote the story which is linked above in the NY SUN. It has the potential to end the Kerry presdential run.

I had a great conversation with Lipscomb a short while ago. This story was too hot for some of the majors. But Lipscomb assured me it is well-sourced and is dead on.

Two witnesses have placed John Kerry at a Kansas City meeting of the hierarchy of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War in November of 1971. At that meeting, they actually took a vote about assassinating United States senators. It was called "The Phoenix Project" and was the brainchild of Scott Camil. Kerry spokesman David Wade has denied Kerry was at the meeting.

The two witnesses who place Kerry at the meeting are Terry Du-Bose and Randy Barnes. What is very interesting is that Barnes is a big Kerry supporter and the head of Missouri Vets for Kerry. As a supporter, Barnes would certainly not make up a story that would hurt his candidate. He told Lipscomb of Kerry's attendance at the meeting.

Think of the implications. If the mainsteam media and major news networks do their homework, they may discover that a man who wants to be president was at a meeting discussing the possiblity of assassinating United States senators. That is a conspiracy. Instead of the White House, does John Forbes Kerry belong in the Big House?

Get on the phone to newsrooms and shame them into covering this story. A major mainsteam journalist returned by email in about a half hour after I sent him info. He finds it "interesting." Let's see if pursues it. He is notable enough, that if he does the story, all hell will break loose in the presidential campaign.

Note: Lipscomb is not a right-wing ideologue. He did a recent story defending Kerry over his medals. He also recently did a story in which he went after George Bush's National Guard service. He told me that he expected to find a drunken rich kid with coke up his nose. Instead, he discovered that Bush actually did more than make up the meetings he had missed and he honorably fulfilled his duty. And Terry McAuliffe knows it.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1971; 2004; barnes; darkplot; dubose; kansascity; kerry; phoenixproject; randybarnes; scottcamil; senators; thomaslipscomb; traitor; vvaw
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To: bootyist-monk
Great.
121 posted on 03/12/2004 1:14:18 PM PST by doug from upland (Don't wait until it is too late to stop Hillary -- do something today!)
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To: Cboldt
I don't think that will fly. Election of Presidents is actually election of state representatives to the Electoral College. Each state, individually and separately, would have get to decide on whether to change their ballot to accomodate a last minute switch.

While a few would go along (the New Jersey supreme court certainly has set a precedent for itself with the replace of Torricelli with Lautenberg), it would be beyond the 'Rats reach to get enough states to go along to be able to win.

Moreover, the stink would kill them in any close state, especially if the name on the ballot was still "Kerry", but voters were supposed to vote for "Kerry" in order to get, say, Hitlary. Yeah, the corrupt and the radical leftists, but I repeat myself, would go along. But this would lose a majority of the "silent majority".

122 posted on 03/12/2004 1:18:18 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: doug from upland
If Kerry was at this meeting, then in all likelihood Bush has the photographs.
A meeting like this one did not happen in 1971 without FBI surveillance.
123 posted on 03/12/2004 1:19:52 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Rebelbase
What's going to be the new name for Arkancide?

What it's really always been anyway: Democide.

124 posted on 03/12/2004 1:21:14 PM PST by Lancey Howard
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To: Rebelbase
massectomy
125 posted on 03/12/2004 1:21:15 PM PST by Dead Dog
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To: BooBoo1000
The 'Rats could try, but they would have to get 50 separate states (well, at least a winning majority of them) to change their ballot. The election is state by state, not national.

That could get really difficult.

126 posted on 03/12/2004 1:21:33 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: ThePythonicCow
You are confusing the Electoral College which meets in the state capitols in December with the delegates of the RAT Party. They nominate their candidate.
127 posted on 03/12/2004 1:23:01 PM PST by doug from upland (Don't wait until it is too late to stop Hillary -- do something today!)
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To: Neenah
I doubt much. This is a state by state affair.

The major party so afflicted would ask the voters of each state to vote for the Electoral College delegates who were intended for the departed candidate, with a commitment, publically accepted by these delegates, to vote for the chosen Fill-In instead.

That's part of the reason we have an Electoral College. The delegates to it can accomodate such emergencies.

128 posted on 03/12/2004 1:28:22 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: doug from upland
I don't think so. Perhaps I was confusing the point to which I was responding, but my response focused on what happens after the convention, after each state has determined, for each party, who would be the Electoral College delegates, if that party won, and after it has started to print ballots.

From that point, until the actual election, a switheroo would require either getting a sufficient number of states to print a new ballots, or getting voters to vote for, say, Kerry, when they really meant Hitlary.

Then after the election, a switheroo would require getting the winning Electoral College delegates to decide on someone other than whom they were sworn to support (say due to an unexpected death).

Though of course, you are right, prior to the Convention results being taken up by the states to print ballots, it's up to the political party.

129 posted on 03/12/2004 1:43:18 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: Tooters
Hillary has the tape.

Make room at the covention for Hillary...



She's not going to run ever. There's too much dirty laundry in her hamper. Peter Paul is one she's looking out for!
130 posted on 03/12/2004 1:45:33 PM PST by danamco
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To: doug from upland
What I can't for the life of me figure out is why in the WORLD Kerry's campaign would offer Scott Camil an position in it's Florida staff!! You'd think they'd want to distance themselves like the plague from somebody who doesn't deny cooking up schemes to assassinate US Senators.

Unless Kerry is having to buy silence and cooperation from Camil....

Prairie
131 posted on 03/12/2004 1:49:22 PM PST by prairiebreeze (God bring comfort to the victims of terrorism in Spain and their families.)
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To: cgbg
Why not use ex-military men to infiltrate the VVAW? Perhaps that is Kerry's dirty little secret--that would freak out the leftists who support him big time.

Wouldn't be the first time it happened. For example, "Was Stalin an Agent of the Tsarist Secret Police?"

132 posted on 03/12/2004 1:52:47 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
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To: ThePythonicCow; doug from upland
Thanks. I should have done this sooner. I googled www.ask.com and got this:

**************************************************

What happens if a nominee dies before taking office?

A viewer asked this question on 8/4/2000:

Heaven for bid that this should happen...

However, once a presidential nominee has accepted the nomination from his party (either Democratic or Republican or other) and prior to the election, he/she becomes ill, incapacitated, or die...who then succeeds him/her as the in the election process??? Where can I find a reference to this answer???

Thank you kindly for assisting me in understanding the political process

JesseGordon gave this response on 8/4/2000:

First of all, the Constitution is silent on this issue -- for that matter, it's silent on anything to do with political parties at all. So there's no Constitutional guidance at all.

Second, this HAS happened, or pretty close, in 1968, when Robert F. Kennedy was assassinated. He was killed in June after winning the California (and numerous other) primaries; the convention was in August. RFK would presumably have been the nominee had he not been killed.

I'm not too sure what his delegates at the convention did, but the Democrats picked Hubert Humphrey as the candidate. It was a turbulent convention, for all sorts of reasons, but RFK's death was part of the reason.

To answer the question, I assume it's entirely up to the party who has lost a candidate to decide what to do. It would seem polite to have the candidate who came in second in the primaries (McCain or Bradley) take over, but more likely there would be a special convention to choose a new candidate.

To be further polite, I would hope that the elections got postponed from November, to allow a fair race. The Constitution doesn't mandate November elections, so I guess that would be determined by Congress. But the surviving (opposing) candidate would prefer a quick election that he was pretty assured of winning, so who knows what Congress would do.

The other situation where this almost happened was with Pres. William Henry Harrison in 1841. He got ill immediately upon taking office (some say it was at his inauguration itself) and died 3 months later. His V.P., John Tyler, took over. Harrison was the first president to die in office.

Source

*****************************************************

Whoa !! Interesting ! I am amazed that there doesn't seem to be an answer to this. It could happen..then what?

The Constitution is silent !!

133 posted on 03/12/2004 2:08:23 PM PST by Neenah ("It's Always Something!")
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To: Neenah
The party picks the candidate.
134 posted on 03/12/2004 2:15:58 PM PST by doug from upland (Don't wait until it is too late to stop Hillary -- do something today!)
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To: Neenah
That's overstating it, I think.

You are in the context here of what happens after the convention, before the election. Once any given state has accepted the list of delegates for the Electoral College of each party, and printed ballots, then only that state could decide to reprint ballots or accept different delegate lists.

An arbitrary change of heart by a national party, unless it had a compelling story with it (a death, say), would be insufficient to get most states to change or reprint, and insufficient to get a majority of voters to follow. At least in most states - New Jersey being an obvious exception.

An outright loss (e.g. death) of a candidate would only put the power of selection back in the party's hands to the extent that the party could agree on a compelling alternative, quickly. In this case, compelling enough to overcome already printed ballots in some or most states with the departed candidates name on them.

As soon as it gets close to the actual election, it is simply too late to reprint ballots. Election results in the closely contested battle ground states would shift against any candidate whose name wasn't actually on the ballot.

This may work when done as a last minute surprise in a local or state election, especially if the party doing it already has massive corrupt control of the election. It fails on a national level unless the circumstances are highly favorable.

135 posted on 03/12/2004 2:28:25 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: doug from upland
Any group that plots the assassination of United States senators is a terrorist organization.
136 posted on 03/12/2004 2:29:17 PM PST by MARTIAL MONK
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To: FourtySeven
Nice work by Doug! Sadly, I, too, believe that when the manipulative Dems and their media shills get through with this story, Kerry will come out a hero. They'll credit him with saving Senators lives. I pray the American people will see the facts through the spin.
137 posted on 03/12/2004 2:30:31 PM PST by 4integrity (AJ)
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To: 4integrity
I pray the American people will see the facts through the spin.

Amen.

138 posted on 03/12/2004 2:31:21 PM PST by FourtySeven (47)
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To: 4integrity
No spin will work if a man running for the presidency had attended a meeting in which a vote was taken regarding killing United States senators. You can't spin that. The key is whether the witnesses will be believed. Can Kerry prove where he was on that day? How about some dental records? :)
139 posted on 03/12/2004 2:34:49 PM PST by doug from upland (Don't wait until it is too late to stop Hillary -- do something today!)
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To: Neenah
Of course. This is not one national election. It is 50 state elections.
140 posted on 03/12/2004 2:37:49 PM PST by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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