THOUSANDS OF BRITISH EMBRACE ISLAM

RADIANCE VIEWSWEEKLY 7-13 March 2004 | 12 March 2004

[Doctor13]

Jonathan Birt, the son of Lord Birt, and Emma Clark, the granddaughter of former liberal Prime Minister Herbert Asquith, are only two of 14,000 mostly-elite white Britons having reverted to Islam, reports said.

According to the first authoritative study of the phenomenon, carried by the Sunday Times on February 22, some of the country’s top landowners, celebrities and the offspring of senior Establishment figures have embraced Islam after being disillusioned with Western values.

The new study by Yahya (formerly Jonathan) Birt, son of Lord Birt, former director-general of the BBC, provides the first reliable data on the sensitive subject of Christians’ reversion to Islam.

He uses a breakdown of the latest census figures to conclude that there are now 14,200 white converts in Britain.

Speaking publicly for the first time about his faith, Birt argued that an inspirational figure, similar to the American convert Malcolm X for Afro-Caribbeans, would first have to emerge if the next stage, a mass conversion among white Britons, were to happen.

"You need great transitional figures to translate something alien (like Islam) into the vernacular," Birt, whose doctorate at Oxford University is on young British Muslims, was quoted by the Times.

"The image of Islam projected by political Islamic movements is not very attractive," he said.

Initially, Birt said he had no coherent reasons for converting, but "in the longer term I think it was the overall profundity, balance and coherence and spirituality of the Muslim way of life which convinced me," he said.

Meanwhile, it emerged last weekend that Emma Clark, the great-granddaughter of a British prime minister has converted. She said: "We’re all the rage, I hope it’s not a passing fashion."

Clark, who helped design an Islamic garden for the Prince of Wales at Highgrove, his Gloucestershire home, is now helping create a similar garden for a mosque in Woking, Surrey, on the site of a car park, said the British newspaper.

Furthermore, fresh evidence came last weekend that Islam has received formal acceptance at the heart of the Establishment. The Queen has approved new arrangements to allow Muslim staff at Buckingham Palace time off to attend Friday prayers at a mosque. A member of staff in the finance department is the first to take advantage of it, said the British paper.

Many converts have been inspired by the writings of Charles Le Gai Eaton, a former Foreign Office diplomat, it added.

"I have received letters from people who are put off by the wishy-washy standards of contemporary Christianity and they are looking for a religion which does not compromise too much with the modern world," said Eaton, author of Islam and the Destiny of Man

[js1138]

I would start looking for the money.

[Lion in Winter]

More islamic BS.

[oceanperch]

Oh boy! Should add being Gay to the mix and really be hip.

[Doctor13]

By the year 2000, there were more practicing Muslims than there were practicing Anglicans. Bonnie Prince Charlie made it a point to bring in more Islamic studies into British school. Remember, when President Bush spoke from the Washington Mosque during Ramadan, he said that Islam is a religion of peace, compassion and charity. I wonder what the Christians in the Sudan who are literally being crucified would think of his remarks? Furthermore, Colin Powell made the statement that the U.S. should bring in more clerics, more teachers and more journalists from Islamic nations. I guess 9/11 wasn't enough for us. Now they want to make it easier for terrorists to enter this country.

[kitkat]

*** ...the wishy-washy standards of contemporary Christianity... ***

I believe that the above is true, and it's a good thing that Mel produced his movie when he did.

The pendulum keeps swinging. The Victorian Age led to the '60s and its lack of a moral compass; now it's swinging back and people are looking for a strong belief.

[mdmathis6]

I think the word should be conversion not reversion!

[Neophyte]

...the wishy-washy standards of contemporary Christianity...

I believe that the above is true.

So do I. Wouldn't a return to not so wishy-washy standards of earlier Christianity do instead of apostasy?

[tkathy]

Rebellious young people will always look for ways to irritate the more sensible members of society. Part of the problem is the way Islam has been allowed to define itself with no effective answering back from the media.

[laconic]

From everthing I read, the problem is that the Anglican church in England is just that: wishy-washy, terrified of offending, always willing to give in on theology, including questioning the divinity of Christ. As a consequence, only about one million (out of 60 million) Brits attend church regularly. Anglican churches in the countryside are increasingly shutting down after 1000 years in service.

[Doctor13]

What a shame that those magnificent cathedrals and churches may one day be converted into mosques. All they have to do is to put up a couple of minarets, as they did to St. Sophia's in Constantinople. When St. Sophia's was desecrated by white-washing the beautiful icons with the sayings of Mohammed, the Christian world remained silent.

[Monty22]

Hey, it's how they did the temple mount too.

They got the entire world in their sites, and we'll just lie down apparently.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Britan needs another John and Charles Wesley, Quick!

[Gorzaloon]

I think the word should be conversion not reversion!

Or infection.

Epidemic?

Plague?

[Wilhelm Tell]

"I have received letters from people who are put off by the wishy-washy standards of contemporary Christianity and they are looking for a religion which does not compromise too much with the modern world," said Eaton, author of Islam and the Destiny of Man

There is a move to destroy or at least water-down anything of value in Western civilization. And it is politically-incorrect to hold any values that are remotely Western or Christian. As a consequence, the West doesn't appear to believe in itself and it seems weak. Churches try to become "relevant" by adopting the latest fad and throwing away most of what was important to the faith.

Contrast that to the appeal of totalitarian movements, including radical Islam. They promise certitude about all things -- just follow the party line and you are one of the elite chosen by History or Allah! You are somebody! You are a warrior among History's chosen or God's elect! Every true believer sees himself as the pinnacle of history -- the center of the universe.

The left has succeeded in making the West literally dis-value itself. Nothing is sacred or important anymore -- all that remains is a vague sense of guilt (which is at the root of the non-judgementalism craze) and a strong sense of cynicism.

[nightdriver]

"The Queen has approved new arrangements to allow Muslim staff at Buckingham Palace time off to attend Friday prayers at a mosque."

So where's "the Defender of the Faith?"

I'm sure that the "faith" refered to is NOT islam.

Seems like that trite little phrase attributed to the Royal House of England is just as phony as the monarchy itself.

[B.O. Plenty]

THOUSANDS OF BRITISH EMBRACE ISLAM...shows how dumb some people can be...Oh well...it takes all kinds, so they say.

[DustyMoment]

. . . white Britons having reverted to Islam . . . "

Interesting wording. When one "reverts" to something, they are going back to a thing or place that they previously did or lived. For these young Brits to "revert" to Islam suggests that they had converted to Islam once, then rejected it and have now "reverted" back to Islam.

The wording casts a lot of doubt as to the credibility of the article, IMO.

[livius]

There is a rumor that Prince Charles converted to Islam several years ago, in the form of Sufism. Granted, Sufis are not the mainstream in Islam, but they seem quite willing to extend more militant Islam. For a real thrill, look up "Murabitun."

[cloud8]

"I think the word should be conversion not reversion!"

More like perversion.

[facedown]

I think the word should be conversion not reversion!

Perversion.

[JimSEA]

"We’re all the rage, I hope it’s not a passing fashion."

WOW! I am at a loss for further words.

[petercooper]

Title should read: THOUSANDS OF BRITISH MORONS EMBRACE ISLAM

[livius]

Muslim doctrine is that everyone is born Muslim, and those who are converting are actually "reverting."

[livius]

Here's some more about the Murabitun, taken from an article about Islamic activity in Chiapas:

The Islamic missionaries (to Mexico) arrived from Granada, Spain, soon after armed Zapatista rebels took over several towns in an uprising to demand better living conditions for Maya peasants in 1994.

The Spaniards are members of Murabitun, a Muslim order active in England, Chechnya, South Africa, Germany and now Mexico. The Murabitun are converts to the mystical Sufi strain of Islam.

Their worldwide leader is Sheik Abdalqadir al-Murabit, formerly Ian Dallas of Britain, who professes a ``communal,'' anti-capitalist and anti-Semitic form of Islam. In Mexico, the Murabitun are led by Aureliano Pérez, who calls himself Emir Nafia and lives on the outskirts of San Cristóbal.

Incidentally, the Spaniard Aureliano Pérez is a former (?) member of ETA.

These people are spread all over the place. In fact, there is another Islamic movement in Mexico led by a British convert. If Prince Charles is indeed a convert to Sufism, however, he is probably a Marabitun.

[Zrob]

wishy washy is right. however, some in the faith are starting to get it: some boston "catholics" wanted to eat hot dogs at a ball game this coming Good Friday, so they asked the diocese for a "reprieve", but were told no. it was reported on the "All Bill Clinton" network as if they were being spanked by a mean parent. with media like this, it doesnt do much good for anything christian, and with nothing but praise for the "religion of peace", we have a monumental task to make Christianity what it always has been: the TRUE religion of love and peace. unfortunately, christianity is seen as oppressive, while islam is seen as good because of its stern attitudes.

i submit to you: is christianity NOT a religion of love and understanding, while islam is one of oppression? after all, does not islam mean "submission" and "obedience"? have we not all seen the actions of cowardly islamic "patriots"? is it not far off that the heated feelings of true christian patriots come to the fore and finally give up trying to live in a phony world of living normally while wondering when the next bomb is going to explode? i think the day is being pushed closer by acts committed by the islamisists, not the christians. yet, as it has been done 3 times in the past, the "bad crusaders" that christians have been called, will have to move to crush the aggressor muslim. it is inevitable, political correctness notwithstanding. no use trying to hide, that will be the conclusion of this war - only the outcome this time is in doubt because of the disconnected christian's weakness of fortitude.

[thathamiltonwoman]

The church in England has been dying for a long time. Modern hip Christianity has been so watered down. It promotes Jesus as your buddy instead of the King of Kings. It prattles about self esteem and never mentions sin. What young person would want to live and die for what's going on in most mainstream churches today? So the weak minded and the young and romantic turn to Islam.

[Prodigal Son]

Like American has no people converting to Islam.

[cookcounty]

"reversion to Islam?" What?

[Paleo Conservative]

Bonnie Prince Charlie made it a point to bring in more Islamic studies into British school.

Would that be that German Prince Charles Hanover Windsor?

[American in Israel]

I think the word should be conversion not reversion!

With what Mohammad did to the Laws of God in his rip-off of scriptures, I tend to lean towards perversion.

[Valin]

the wishy-washy standards of contemporary Christianity

Absolutly.

[kaylar]

Muslems in their infinite arrogance, stupidity, and ignorance believe that all people are born muslem.Therefore, if someone converts, they are merely 'reverting' to Islam. The fact that the article's writer feels compelled to lend credence to that asinine notion by using their preferred phrasing is an indication of how powerful Islam has become in countries where (IMO) it should never have been allowed to gain a toehold.

[Madame Dufarge]

"We’re all the rage, I hope it’s not a passing fashion."

That caught my eye, too. Sounds like a Brit Valley Girl.

You just know that if it does turn out to be a passing fashion, she's outta there.

[MissAmericanPie]

Coming to America

[Doctor13]

Nope, it's Carmella's Bonnie Prince Charlie.

[aquila48]

Or revulsion?

[aquila48]

...offspring of senior Establishment figures have embraced Islam after being disillusioned with Western values.

It's easy to see the attraction in blowing yourself up and taking a couple hundred infidels with you and then being rewarded with seventy virgins...

[midexion]

The vacuum being created my the spineless church heirarchy, together with the treachery of this government, far from creating feelings of guilt for our past, has in fact produced very fertile ground for Fascism to flourish, which only needs an articulate educated leader to send it blazing across the land....and those who have "reverted" to Islam, could find themselves under such an agressive regime, being charged with treason and anti-British activities. Islam is already prooving to be a divisive religion within the country, and, although I support everyones right to worship in their chosen way, it must never be allowed to infringe on everyones freedom. The apparent "wishy washy" state of the country is the result of the second rate "wannabies" that have been governing us for the last twenty years.

[BunnySlippers]

What is Radiance ViewsWeekly? A link?

[TheClintons-STILLAnti-American]

"Jonathan Birt, the son of Lord Birt, and Emma Clark, the granddaughter of former liberal Prime Minister Herbert Asquith, are only two of 14,000 mostly-elite white Britons having reverted to Islam, reports said."

The epitome of idiocy.

[Malacoda]

Is there a particular reason you chose to post the same crap, over and over?

[Darksheare]

And your point is?
You posted the same thing at least three times.
It is more efficient to address multiple people in one post.
Takes up less space and is less annoying.
Welcome to FR.
What brings you to a year old dead thread?

[Darksheare]

"What would you call a religion whose beliefs, practices and followers are being bashed and bad-mouthed in practically every sphere of activity, in almost every corner of the globe, yet it attracts ever-increasing numbers of people? "

Any religion that promotes rape and murder the way Islam does isn't worth a cup of hog spit.