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America's first war on foreign soil was fought against...
Self | The_Macallan

Posted on 03/21/2004 10:20:16 AM PST by The_Macallan

 
...MUSLIMS (surprise!)


"Peace Through The Medium Of War"

Muslim pirates operating in the Mediterranean from Tripoli, Morroco, Tunisia and Algeria (the Barbary States) had been terrorizing European and early American merchant ships for hundreds of years. They attacked and pillaged any and all ships along trade routes, stole all cargos and held crews hostage for ransom which, if not paid, resulted in the crews being sold into slavery.

European states got so accustomed to these attacks that they actually paid regular "tributes" which were in effect blackmail "pre-ransom monies" to avoid having the crews of their ships seized. European states had tried many times to make treaties with these Muslim Barbarians only to see them broke time and time again as the pirates continued to raid their ships, enslave thousands of crew members and extort millions in "tributes" from the cowering European states.

Clearly the Europeans have a long history of appeasement to Islamic terrorists dating back many centuries.

Then along came America.

In 1801, just 19 days after his inauguration, US President Thomas Jefferson dramatically (some might say "radically") shifted America's response to the Muslim pirates of the Barbary States - especially those of Tripoli. With very little congressional or public debate, Jefferson sent newly-built US Navy ships to the Mediterranean to confront the Muslim pirates and defend American economic interests abroad.

Upon arriving, the Navy discovered that Tripoli had already declared war on the United States. Though the US did not formally declare war against the Tripoli, American military response shifted from defense to offense. Together with fighters from many regional tribes and states, the American Naval and Marine forces conducted military strikes and mercenary raids against the Islamic Barbary state of Tripoli in what is now known as America's first war on foreign soil ("...to the shores of Tripoli").

Again, this was all done to protect our economic interests and trade routes in the Mideast and Mediterranean. (Do you suppose there were any shouts of "No blood for spices" from homeless hippies in the streets of early America???)

The battles ebbed and flowed, some losses were incurred and some victories were won and importantly, the American show of force split the Barbary states with Algeria and Tunis breaking their alliance with Tripoli.

In the end, America's first war lasted almost five years and resulted in the weakening of the Barbary pirates. After the War of 1812, American military power had become quite well established and, in addition to the weakening of Tripoli at the hands of the Americans in 1805, had led to the final defeat of the Barbary pirates and establishment of peace treaties which were backed up by the threat of force by the American military. And by that time, Europe had also seen the success of American force against the Muslims of the Barbary states which finally strengthened their resolve to stand up to the Islamic pirates as well.

Lastly, the victory of the America's first war against Islamic terrorists resulted in the permanent establishment of US military bases in the Mediterranean, the triumph of defending our honor over paying their tributes and, most importantly, shifted American political thought away from pacifism and treaties which ruled the early founding father's Federalism to one of offense and in the words of Thomas Jefferson - "peace through the medium of war".



Some of Jefferson's words on dealing with the Islamic pirates/terrorists:

"it will be more easy to raise ships and men to fight these pirates into reason, than money to bribe them."

"The [Barbary] states must see the rod; perhaps it must be felt by some one of them"

"[It is] our determination to prefer war in all cases to tribute under any form, and to any people whatever,"

"I very early thought it would be best to effect a peace through the medium of war"


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; Unclassified; War on Terror; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: america; barbarypirates; history; militaryhistory; muslim; tripoli; usn; war


It's Not Just A Gun...

It's My "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE"!!
1 posted on 03/21/2004 10:20:17 AM PST by The_Macallan
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To: hollywood
FYI
2 posted on 03/21/2004 10:21:14 AM PST by The_Macallan
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To: The_Macallan
BTTT!
3 posted on 03/21/2004 10:24:12 AM PST by PeaceBeWithYou (De Oppresso Liber!)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: The_Macallan
``Millions for defense, not one penny for tribute!''
5 posted on 03/21/2004 10:27:07 AM PST by Liberal Classic (Will admin systems for food.)
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To: The_Macallan
" "[It is] our determination to prefer war in all cases to tribute under any form, and to any people whatever," "

Thomas Jefferson, enough said.

6 posted on 03/21/2004 10:33:11 AM PST by Kakaze (I'm now a single issue voter.....exterminate Al Quaida)
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To: djjava; BostonianRightist; jmt576
Too bad we didn't have this info at the NY commie freakshow yesterday! Very interesting and relevant info.
7 posted on 03/21/2004 10:38:26 AM PST by To Hell With Poverty
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: The_Macallan
America's actions during the Barbary Wars earned the admiration and respect of many European nations, who'd been paying tribute to the pirates in exchange for safe passage for their merchant ships. When the frigate Philadelphia ran aground while pursuing a pirate ship and was captured, the Americans immediately sent a raiding party into the harbor and burned the frigate to prevent such a powerful warship from being used by the pirates.

Even the Marine Corps anthem bears tribute to the Barbary Wars; ...to the shores of Tripoli.

9 posted on 03/21/2004 10:50:45 AM PST by Stonewall Jackson (Eagle Scout class of 1992.)
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To: The_Macallan
"[It is] our determination to prefer war in all cases to tribute under any form, and to any people whatever,"

Other quotations coined about that time:

“No; no; not a sixpence.”

CHARLES COTESWORTH PINCKNEY, American minister to France, letter to Timothy Pickering, October 27, 1797, relating the American response to a French request for a tribute or bribe [in the XYZ Affair].

"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."

Representative Robert Goodloe Harper, Address, June 18, 1798 (Harper was the Chairman of the Committee on Ways and Means)

10 posted on 03/21/2004 10:51:29 AM PST by Plutarch
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To: The_Macallan

Same place, different name, same bunch of rock chucking neanderthals, same outcome. Will these guys ever learn ?


11 posted on 03/21/2004 10:57:44 AM PST by SENTINEL (USMC GWI (MY GOD IS GOD, ROCKCHUCKER !!))
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To: Plutarch
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."

"We do not negotiate with terrorists". (the modern version of the same sentiment)

12 posted on 03/21/2004 11:02:27 AM PST by elbucko
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To: The_Macallan

13 posted on 03/21/2004 11:07:48 AM PST by Fiddlstix (This Space Available for Rent or Lease by the Day, Week, or Month. Reasonable Rates. Inquire within.)
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To: Salve Regina
America stands between the barbarians and human civilization.

Perhaps this has been America's fate, or raison d`etat, from the beginning.

14 posted on 03/21/2004 11:09:51 AM PST by elbucko
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To: elbucko
It's good to be reminded of these things. The
hippies muddy the issues. We need to make some
pamphlets with some of these Jeffersonisms printed
in them to hand out when the ANSWER people swarm.
15 posted on 03/21/2004 11:16:19 AM PST by Twinkie
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To: Stonewall Jackson
America's actions during the Barbary Wars earned the admiration and respect of
many European nations, who'd been paying tribute to the pirates in exchange
for safe passage for their merchant ships.


Looks like the memory of some Europeans is faulty...
16 posted on 03/21/2004 11:18:37 AM PST by VOA
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To: The_Macallan
It is false to claim the Federalists were some sort of peaceniks when the opposite is true they were consistently accused of being warmongers and militarists by the DemocRAT-Republicans who opposed a standing army and navy and filled the halls of Congress with screeches about "tyranny." Much like their RAT descendents of today.

Jefferson's forces in the Congress repeatedly opposed all attempts to strengthen our military while Washington and Adams were in office. Republicans opposed the ship building programs instituted by the Federalists which created our Navy. Jefferson wanted NO battleships at all but wanted to rely upon small gunboats patrolling ONLY around our coasts. He believed Navies led to foreign involvements and war.

Without the Republican opposition there would have been more of the Constitution class ships built (these were the most technologically advanced warships afloat.) His party's persistent boneheadedness resulted in the Nation being totally unprepared for the War of 1812 and an army so weak that 5000 British troops were able to burn the District of Columbia.
17 posted on 03/21/2004 11:23:12 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Liberal Classic
That was a Federalist that said that.
18 posted on 03/21/2004 11:23:58 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: Kakaze
Jefferson's forces undermined and weakened the military at every opportunity. His words were never to be taken a face value and were almost always in contrast to the actions of him and his party.

Great tag line.
19 posted on 03/21/2004 11:25:26 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: To Hell With Poverty; The_Macallan
This is OLD news, in fact it's history...

People who don't know America's FULL history shouldn't be citizens, IMHO.

Of course now that Ridley Scott is gonna make a movie about it there will be 1000 vanity threads from the newly enlightened...
20 posted on 03/21/2004 11:27:28 AM PST by Veracious Poet (Cash cows are sacred in America...GOT MILKED???)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
His words were never to be taken a face value and were almost always in contrast to the actions of him and his party.

But he seemed to have changed his tune a bit by the nearly-immediate dispatch of Naval forces to Tripoli in 1801.

But either way, for the dealing with the modern-day pacifists who worship Jefferson, it's nice to throw his own hawkish words right back in their pimply, scowling, infantile-chanting, appeasement-pushing faces.




It's Not Just A Gun...

It's My "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE"!!
21 posted on 03/21/2004 11:41:49 AM PST by The_Macallan
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To: The_Macallan
SPOTREP - TROP
22 posted on 03/21/2004 11:49:21 AM PST by LiteKeeper
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To: Liberal Classic
"Millions for tribute, but not one cent for defense."
~Europe~
~The American Democrat Party~

23 posted on 03/21/2004 12:07:57 PM PST by Savage Beast ("Vote Democrat!" ~Osama bin Laden. "Kerry for President!" ~Ayman al-Zawahri.)
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To: The_Macallan
"It will be more easy to bribe them, than to raise ships and men to fight these terrorists into reason."
~The Democrat Party~

24 posted on 03/21/2004 12:12:19 PM PST by Savage Beast ("Vote Democrat!" ~Osama bin Laden. "Kerry for President!" ~Ayman al-Zawahri.)
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To: Liberal Classic; elbucko; Plutarch
"It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists."
~Romano Prodi, President of the European Commission~

"Hey, Romano. What about using tribute???"
~Savage Beast~

25 posted on 03/21/2004 12:21:28 PM PST by Savage Beast ("Vote Democrat!" ~Osama bin Laden. "Kerry for President!" ~Ayman al-Zawahri.)
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To: The_Macallan
Well, the first war fought on foreign land would be the Quasi war of 1798- 1800, battles on foreign land during it were the spiking of the guns of the fort at Puerto Plata, Santo Domingo (the Dominican Republic today) by marines from USS Constitution. ( Here is the official report of that expedition: A Cutting-Out Expedition, 1800), and the bombardment and Marine assault of St. Christopher on Dutch Caracao.

The Quasi-war is also the source of the quote:" millions for defense but not one cent for tribute". We kept paying tribute to the Barbary Pirates through the Quasi-war, by the time of Jefferson's presidency the tribute to them was over 1/4th of the total federal budget!

Ironically the Quasi-war was fought with... our good friends the French!

But the Barbary War was an internationally significant moment in our history, and a step up in intensity from the Quasi-war. Here is a terrific thread on it by our vets-cor "Freeper Foxhole" fanatics The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Barbary War . (Anyone interested in military history or anything military should check out the VetsCoR forum at the upper right of the FR forum page!)

26 posted on 03/21/2004 12:28:03 PM PST by mrsmith ("Oyez, oyez! All rise for the Honorable Chief Justice... Hillary Rodham Clinton ")
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To: mrsmith
Thanks. Good info.
27 posted on 03/21/2004 12:29:32 PM PST by The_Macallan
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To: The_Macallan
America's first war on foreign soil was fought against...

French canadians and indians

28 posted on 03/21/2004 12:38:23 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (Laziness travels so slowly that Poverty soon Overtakes him!)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK
America's first war on foreign soil was fought against...
French canadians and indians


America wasn't an independant nation then. That was 20 years before the Revolutionary War.




It's Not Just A Gun...

It's My "HOMELAND DEFENSE RIFLE"!!
29 posted on 03/21/2004 12:47:42 PM PST by The_Macallan
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To: Savage Beast
23-25
good, good, and good.
I'm stealing 'em.
thanks.
30 posted on 03/21/2004 1:01:28 PM PST by King Prout (You may disagree with what I have to say... but I will defend to YOUR death MY right to say it.)
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To: The_Macallan
America's first war on foreign soil was fought against...

I seem to recall an abortive/failed attempt to invade Canada during the Revolution in order to try to convince the
colonies to the North to join the 13 to the South.

That's not to mention the logistical/staging importance of Quebec to the Brits.

31 posted on 03/21/2004 1:19:37 PM PST by Calvin Locke
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To: King Prout
Glad you like 'em. It's not stealing; it's a gift.
32 posted on 03/21/2004 5:32:57 PM PST by Savage Beast ("Vote Democrat!" ~Osama bin Laden. "Kerry for President!" ~Ayman al-Zawahri.)
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To: The_Macallan
LoL. I have not throughly researched his motivation wrt this episode which is so out of character for the J man. Unfortunately, I am sure once I do I will not be happy with what I find.
33 posted on 03/22/2004 6:32:16 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (America's Enemies foreign and domestic agree: Bush must be destroyed.)
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To: The_Macallan

If you want to watch something which will turn your stomach, tune into the History Channel's "Battle of Tripoli" which appeared tonight.

I KNOW they will retelecast it.


In case you are not familiar with the storyline - a REAL American hero by the name of William Eaton travels to Egypt, with the approval of the Jefferson Administration.

His goal: to raise a force of mercenaries to unseat the ruler of Tripoli, one Yousouf Karamali who had dethroned his brother Hamid and seized the throne. He also had a handfull of U.S. Marines and some Christian European mercenaries with him.

Yusouf, like other Barbary rulers, made a living extorting protection money from Christian shipping in the Mediterranean. Like other Barbary States, he probably also augemented his illgotten gains by slave-raiding Christian countries in Southern and Western Europe, and petty acts of piracy.

The reason Eaton wanted to dethrone Yusouf, was to free several hundred American mariners who had been held for a very long time as prisoners in Tripoli where they were regularly beaten, abused, forced to work as slave labor, kept under inhuman conditions, and humiliated by the sons of Mohammed. Bargainning for their release by the Jefferson Administration had accomplished little.

After an epic journey with many personal hazards, Eaton was well on the road to accomplishing his goals.

But he was blind-sided by a viperous piece of offal named Tobias Lear, a creature of the State Department and a progenitor of many successors of a like mind. We can think of a current one immediately.

Lear had been manoevering behind the scenes all along to undermine Eaton, effectuate a ransome, and release the Americans that way.

After stunning victories, and just before Eaton and his group could make their move, Lear negotiatied a ransome of $60,000 for the release of the prisoners. Needed aid from the U.S. government never materialized and Commodore Baron, a man with a poor record as a commander, recalled Eaton and he and Hamid, a few of his followers and the remnant of the Americans were evacuated by ship.

Hamid was abandoned by the U.S. The balance of those who had supported him in Tripoli were left to the none too tender mercies of Yousuf. Eaton had the ground cut off around him and was totally embittered by the failure to support him, the abandonment of Hamid, and the use of money to buy back free Americans who should have been and most certainly WOULD have been freed by the sword.

Needless to say, Tripoli went onto commit new outrages, encouraged by Lear and Jefferson's cowardly behavior, and only another naval expedition to the area and committment of many more troops and ships under a more able commander than Baron was able to finally bring the Barbary Pirates to heal.

Parts of what I am telling you were omitted or glossed over in the History Channel acount.

But the REAL BARF alert involves two Professors of New England University and one Caucasian American profssor from where I can't recall. The two from the University of New England were one Dr. Ali Abdullatif Ahmid and one Dr. Anour Majid.

These pieces of human offal proceeded to present a politically correct account of things from the Barbery perspective. All three of them were critical of heroic Eaton as a "selfish adventurer", defended the actions of the Barbary States as necessary for their survival as a revenue source, defended them as legitimate nations, pointed out the Barbary Pirates were not "terrorists", criticized Eaton for raising an American Flag over a fort they seized, equated his efforts with "western colonization" and blamed this unfortunate incident as one cause for our "mistaken" concept of Islam.

Only one guy, a military man named Wheeler, seemed to actually speak out in support of Eaton.

I have read several of the books they mention in the presentation.

The Barbary States were predator sheikdoms who survived totally by slaving and raiding and extortion. Entire Christian villages from southern Italy to Ireland and England were totally wiped out by their slaving operations. They sent their corsairs out into the Atlantic and throughout the Mediterranean.

There was very little difference in their methods, given the times, between the lunatics threatening us now, and them.

I shudder to think of the impact these "professors" will have with their cultural equivalency concepts on the minds of young students at the University of New England.
I was in college during the Viet Nam era and I well know how vicious, biased, and unpatriotic leftist profesors can be.

I'm super steamed. I'm steamed at the History Channel, at the University of New England, and at these three pieces of human offal who are brainwashing American Students who will only hear one side of this story.


34 posted on 09/19/2004 8:01:50 PM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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