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My Military Afghanistan Presentation to a Private Girl's School (Vanity)
2banana | March 24th, 2004 | 2banana

Posted on 03/24/2004 6:32:51 AM PST by 2banana

All,

My very rich cousin asked me to give a presentation of my Afghanistan military experiences to her daughter's very private, exclusive, very expensive, all girls school (grades 1-12) located in the suburbs of Philadelphia.

The talks went very well as the girls are very smart and asked very good questions. Nearly every teacher ask me question from the far left field. Questions on the US supporting "warlords," sending people to Gitmo, asking just how do we have a US military on Cuba (good thing I know my Spanish-American War History) and how women are excluded from Special Forces units were common.

The KICKER was when I got thank you notes from the girls of the class. It seems this history teacher "just happened" to discover an article accusing the US military of not treating prisoners properly in Afghanistan and had her class read it.

So I get about 30 notes from the kids that basically have twp parts:

1. Thank you very much for serving our country.

2. Did you beat or see any Americans mistreating prisoners?

My response is a letter I sent below.

-------------------------------------------------

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/08/afghan8073.htm

Afghanistan: Abuses by U.S. Forces Beatings in Detention; No Legal Process

(New York, March 8, 2004) – U.S. forces operating in Afghanistan have arbitrarily detained civilians, used excessive force during arrests of non-combatants, and mistreated detainees, Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today.

The United States is setting a terrible example in Afghanistan on detention practices. Civilians are being held in a legal black hole – with no tribunals, no legal counsel, no family visits and no basic legal protections.

Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia division of Human Rights Watch

Human Rights Watch concludes that the U.S.-administered system of arrest and detention in Afghanistan exists outside of the rule of law. The United States is maintaining separate detention facilities at Bagram, Kandahar, Jalalabad and Asadabad military bases.

"The United States is setting a terrible example in Afghanistan on detention practices," said Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia division of Human Rights Watch. "Civilians are being held in a legal black hole – with no tribunals, no legal counsel, no family visits and no basic legal protections."

The 59-page report, "Enduring Freedom": Abuses by U.S. Forces in Afghanistan, is based on research conducted by Human Rights Watch in Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2003 and early 2004. Human Rights Watch documented cases of U.S. forces using military tactics, including unprovoked deadly force, during operations to apprehend civilians in uncontested residential areas—situations where law enforcement standards and tactics should have been used. Afghan forces deployed with U.S. forces have also mistreated persons during search and arrest operations and looted homes.

The report also details mistreatment in U.S. detention facilities. Released detainees have said that U.S. forces severely beat them, doused them with cold water and subjected them to freezing temperatures. Many said they were forced to stay awake, or to stand or kneel in painful positions for extended periods of time.

"There is compelling evidence suggesting that U.S. personnel have committed acts against detainees amounting to torture or cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment," said Adams.

The report also describes frequent arbitrary arrests of civilians, apparently based on mistaken or faulty intelligence, and numerous cases of civilians—grocers, farmers, or laborers—who were held incommunicado and indefinitely.

Human Rights Watch said that many of the violations documented were reported in non-combat situations, and emphasized that many abuses—especially arbitrary arrests and mistreatment of detainees—were inexcusable even within the context of war.

Human Rights Watch said that Taliban and other anti-U.S. forces operating in Afghanistan had themselves violated international humanitarian law by carrying out armed attacks and abductions against civilians and humanitarian aid workers. But Human Rights Watch pointed out that under international law those violations could not serve as an excuse for U.S. violations.

"The Taliban and other insurgent groups are illegally targeting civilians and humanitarian aid workers," said Adams. "But abuses by one party to a conflict do not justify violations by the other side. This is a fundamental principle of the laws of war."

The United States has not responded adequately to questions about arrest and detention practices. In particular, Human Rights Watch raised the case of three detainees who are known to have died while in U.S. custody—two at the Bagram airbase north of Kabul in December 2002 and one at the Asadabad airbase in eastern Afghanistan in June 2003. The first two deaths were ruled homicides by U.S. military pathologists who performed autopsies on the two men. U.S. officials have yet to explain what happened to any of the three men.

"This stonewalling must stop," said Adams. "The United States is obligated to investigate allegations and prosecute those who have violated the law. There is no sign that serious investigations are taking place."

Human Rights Watch said that the United States was eroding international standards by not taking action.

"Abusive governments across the world can now point to U.S. forces in Afghanistan, and say, 'If they can abuse human rights and get away with it, why can't we?'" said Adams.

President George W. Bush and officials in his administration stated in June 2003 that the United States does not torture or mistreat detainees in the custody of the United States. But the United States has refused to allow any independent observers access to detention facilities in Afghanistan, except for the International Committee of the Red Cross, which does not report publicly on its findings. Human Rights Watch noted that some documented abuses in the report took place after President Bush's statement.

The report includes the following recommendations to the United States:

Investigate and publicly report on allegations of mistreatment at detention facilities in Afghanistan;

Instruct military and intelligence personnel to take all appropriate steps to prevent or stop abuses by Afghan forces deployed with or under the command of U.S. forces;

Create a legal system of tribunals, in conjunction with the Afghan government, to ensure that detainees in Afghanistan—both combatants and civilians—are processed and screened in accordance with applicable standards of the Geneva Conventions and human rights law;

Permit families of detainees, and those providing legal assistance, to visit detainees;

Reevaluate and revise arrest methods and standing Rules of Engagement for U.S. military and intelligence personnel in Afghanistan to ensure that law enforcement methods are used when U.S. forces are arresting non-combatants in non-combat situations. The report also calls on Afghan President Hamid Karzai and the Afghan government to urge the United States to bring their detention system within Afghanistan into compliance with international law, and to order Afghan commanders to stop or attempt to prevent abuses during military operations.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: afghanistan; genevaconvention; humanrights; left; liberal; oifveterans; southasia; teachers
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Hello Ms. xxxxx and the Ninth Grade World History Class:

I read your great letters. You ask some very good questions. Let’s discuss them. I can only talk for myself and from my experiences (I do not speak for the US Army).

1. The Internet is a great tool for researching but you have to know what your sources are and “not believe everything you read” just because you found an official looking website talking about an issue you are interested in. I found this true in Afghanistan as well, as one village would say “the village on the other side of the mountain is Taliban” and when we got to the second the village they would say the same thing about the first village (both villages were not Taliban but had their own “hidden agendas”). If you were researching the history of the Soviet Union, you would take with much skepticism what a communist group/web site has to say about it. The same is true for the War in Afghanistan and the War in Iraq.

Human Right Watch (HRW) is an anti-war and anti-American military organization. This organization was against the wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan from the start. They claimed a "humanitarian disaster" if America tried to topple Saddam Hussein (never happened) and historically accuses the American military of human rights violations without any evidence. Most of HRW's contributing members are part of the anti-military and anti-President Bush crowd. Now this doesn’t mean we should not hear what HWR has to say or consider their evidence, but we should understand what the source is of this information. Funny how I never heard of HRW when Saddam and the Taliban were filling their mass graves (and I have seen plenty of them).

2. The “Geneva Convention (GC)” is a term thrown around a lot these days. Very few people actually know what is in this treaty (I suggest your class does a research project on it). The GC was created and signed right after the wreckage of WWII (1949), principally to provide specific rules to safeguard combatants who are wounded, sick or prisoners of war (POW’s) after their terrible actions by some countries during that conflict.

A combatant is someone in the military service of a country that wears a uniform with a “fixed distinctive sign”, openly carries a weapon, “obeys the laws of war” and answers to a chain of command. American military forces diligently follow these rules. Terrorists that the American military is fighting in Afghanistan do not. Even under the Geneva Convention, spies, saboteurs, terrorists and criminals may be tried and punished (up to death).

POW’s have the right (among other things) not to be tortured, medical treatment, keeping personal effects (pictures, ID card, etc.), to be placed out of danger, food, water, clothing, religion, and not to work in industries that support the enemy’s war effort. POW’s have no rights to lawyers, counsel, observers (except the Red Cross) or family visits. POW’s are not part of the American criminal system.

The American military goes above and beyond what is in the GC and has done so since even before this treaty was in place. German troops in WWII would travel hundreds of miles to surrender to the American Army instead of the Russian Army. To this day, former German POW’s have such fond memories of their treatment that they take tours of their American POW camps. At the end of the Korean War, it was a major political issue as the majority of hundred of thousands of North Korean and Chinese POW’s did not want to go back to their homelands due to their decent treatment at the hand of the Americans. During the Gulf War and the Liberation of Iraq, most of the Iraqi army surrendered and did not put up a fight. They knew they would be treated well by the Americans as a POW.

America treats POW’s well for three purposes. One, it is the right thing to do. Two, we would rather have enemy personnel surrender than fight them as it saves lives on both sides. Three, we want the enemy to know that their POWs are well treated so that they will treat American POWs well. Sadly, this rarely happens (just look to recent case of POW Jessica Lynch who had her legs broken and was raped by the Iraqi Army).

3. Using HRW’s own figures, about 1000 Afghans have been “placed under control (PUC)” by the Americans. We should put this into perspective. Afghanistan is a country with over 23 million people and about the size of Texas. The American military have been there since almost right after September 11, 2001 (about 900 days). So the American military is averaging about 1 Afghan person “PUCed” a day for this whole country in the middle of a war for all combat operations. That actually sounds like a very low number to me.

4. HRW makes some very general accusations about American operations and the treatment of “PUCs.” It is hard to respond to general accusations. I can tell you that the American military is trained to respect human rights and tries to avoid civilian casualties if at all possible. I have had several missions canceled due to the possibility of civilian casualties. Unfortunately, sometimes civilians get hurt. That happens in war especially against an enemy that deliberately tries to inflict as much civilian deaths as possible and does not abide by the GC’s rules for combatants.

5. To address the specific accusation that HWR interviewed former detainees and found that “US Forces severely beat them, doused them with cold water and subjected them to freezing temperatures. Many said they were forced to stay awake, or to stand or kneel in painful positions for extended period of time”

My first thought is, that this is the best they could come up with? An anti-American and anti-war organization interviews former detainees, who may possibly be Taliban or Al-Qaeda, and the very worst is that these guys had to endure is that they had to take a cold shower? If the American military really wanted to torture people, I am sure they could come up with better curriculum (they could always ask Jessica Lynch for some ideas). I have actually released some PUCs. They all commented that they were treated well and all had gained weight while being a PUC.

My second thought is that I lived in Army barracks without heat and without hot water (and getting fed some pretty bad Army food) during many Army training courses. Come to think of it, for most of my time in Afghanistan, I didn’t have heat or hot showers. I don’t remember being interviewed by HWR or an outcry for an investigation.

6. Any PUCs that my team took were well cared for. They got three meals a day (the same food we ate), water and a warm place to sleep. No one beat them or even touched them. We had to send all information we had on them to higher immediately. If they were deemed a “small fish,” we let them go. Because of this and other reasons, we would not waste our time with “arbitrarily detained civilians.” I am sure all American units felt the same way.

Summary:

The US military is trained to uphold human rights, the Geneva Convention and the Hague Conferences (1907). From what I have seen, the US military goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualties (even to the point of degrading military operations). If abuse cases of US military personnel are discovered (and individual cases may happen), those involved will be persecuted under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) which is a lot tougher than the civilian justice system. No other country in the world has such a long tradition or takes as serious the well treating their POWs.

Best Regards,

(CPT) 2banana

1 posted on 03/24/2004 6:32:58 AM PST by 2banana
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To: 2banana
Good for you. I hope the teacher has a meltdown.
2 posted on 03/24/2004 6:37:10 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: 2banana
OUT-F'ING-STANDING, Sir!
3 posted on 03/24/2004 6:38:03 AM PST by Old Sarge
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To: 2banana
Too bad Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia division of Human Rights Watch, isn't a bit more concerned about these kinds of reports:

Soldiers catch Palestinian boy [age 8] wearing explosive belt
4 posted on 03/24/2004 6:43:50 AM PST by TomGuy (Clintonites have such good hind-sight because they had their heads up their hind-ends 8 years.)
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To: 2banana
Great Post - thanks for setting the record straight--the only way to fight lies is by telling the truth, even when it's painful.
5 posted on 03/24/2004 6:45:14 AM PST by richardtavor (Pray for the peace of Jerusalem in the name of the G-d of Jacob)
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To: 2banana
Excellent. Please let us know if you receive a reply.
6 posted on 03/24/2004 6:45:39 AM PST by jigsaw (God Bless Our Troops.)
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To: 2banana

Brilliant work, sir!  Thanks for your service!

Owl_Eagle

" WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
DIVERSITY IS STRENGTH"

7 posted on 03/24/2004 6:49:42 AM PST by End Times Sentinel (I AIN'T GOT TIME FO' YOUR JIBBA-JABBA, FOOL!!! ~Mr. T.)
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To: 2banana
It seems this history teacher "just happened" to discover an article accusing the US military of not treating prisoners properly in Afghanistan and had her class read it.

You're a better person than I am. I would've gone back to that school and presented the facts to that history "teacher" in front of her students.

It's great that you took the time to respond to the class. Now, I wonder if the teacher shared that letter with her students.

8 posted on 03/24/2004 6:50:28 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: 2banana
Great answer! Do you really think that "teach" will let the kids see it?
9 posted on 03/24/2004 6:51:37 AM PST by JimRed (Fight election fraud! Volunteer as a local poll watcher, challenger or district official.)
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To: 2banana
Thanks for telling the truth. Of course, the Demonrat teachers will never listen to the truth, but the kids might.
10 posted on 03/24/2004 6:52:45 AM PST by Steely Glint ("Communists are just Democrats in a big hurry.")
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To: 2banana
A most excellent letter. I hope the teacher actually lets the students read it. You may never know how many minds you enlightened with this.
11 posted on 03/24/2004 6:53:45 AM PST by iceskater (No nation or state ever taxed itself into prosperity.)
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To: 2banana
Great use of references to PVT Lynch. Take care Sir, BC
12 posted on 03/24/2004 6:59:45 AM PST by BayouCoyote (In all, 366 homes were destroyed and 41 churches burned.)
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To: hellinahandcart
What rather surprises me is that the parents paying for this scruel's tuition don't make their wishes known to the headmaster, STAT!

Usually, those able to afford such educational facilities are quite capable of effecting change. My advise to your relative is talk to the other parents.

I predict that the teacher will have her opinion given to her by the headmaster.
13 posted on 03/24/2004 7:00:26 AM PST by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon liberty, it is essential to examine principles - -)
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To: 2banana
No other country in the world has such a long tradition or takes as serious the well treating their POWs.

Wonderful response to the girls and their teacher! I hope the girls take your suggestion about researching the GC seriously. It may just open their eyes to just how compassionate this country is when it comes to POWs and civilians in an war zone.

14 posted on 03/24/2004 7:04:56 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: 2banana
Great reply! Did you send it only to the teacher, or to the students as well. I hope you sent it to all, because if the teacher actually reads this in full to the class, I will eat my hat.
15 posted on 03/24/2004 7:10:11 AM PST by jtminton (T.R.O.P. is tripe!)
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To: 2banana
Wow, you are just fabulous. I think I would have just punched the teacher. =)
16 posted on 03/24/2004 7:29:36 AM PST by Aggie Mama
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To: 2banana
BRILLIANT.
17 posted on 03/24/2004 7:37:19 AM PST by MegaSilver
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To: 2banana
Great response! Wouldja come talk to my college history class? (Just joking. But if you're up to it I'll make arrangements!)

My instructor is a leftist...and we're just about to start on the Cold War...I have already placed a call to our local mental institution to reserve a room for myself :-)

18 posted on 03/24/2004 7:46:30 AM PST by scoopscandal
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To: 2banana
Good job Capt. This is an eloquent and meaningful reply. This will get circulated.
19 posted on 03/24/2004 8:34:14 AM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: 2banana
Paul Lineberger, the man who literally wrote the book on Psychological Warfare, stressed two key components to that mode of combat: truth, and love. To wage effective warfare on an enemy's morale, you need credibility, and a reputation for humanity. During the Korean war, Dr. Lineberger saved literally thousands of lives by creating a leaflet in Chinese. He explained to the grunts on the other side that if they shouted a string of Chinese words for duty, honor, country, motherhood, etc. in the specified order, THEN -- they would be received with respect, treated well, and honored. (What the English speaker heard sounded like the English phrase "I surrender!") This leaflet allowed men to step out of their roles as combatants, while yet saving face.

Most of us are more likely to know Dr. Lineberger by his psuedonym, Cordwainer Smith, author of poignent, bizarre, Christianity-embued science fiction stories in the 1960s.

20 posted on 03/24/2004 9:39:39 AM PST by TomSmedley ((technical writer looking for work!))
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